Slide and floor bottoming out and contacting tires

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
So John,

What's the rating on your axles?

I believe they are rated at 3500 pounds each, which is interesting since the trailer weighed 7700 pounds out of the door at the factory!

I will be calling Heartland Customer Service on Monday to see what is up with this . . .

Our old trailer was 34 years old (1978 Coachman Cadet 24') when we traded it in, and none of this stuff ever happened to it!

And we took that old beast into some remote places I'd never dream of taking our new trailer!

And it is still going strong today under a new owner!
 

jimtoo

Moderator
I believe they are rated at 3500 pounds each, which is interesting since the trailer weighed 7700 pounds out of the door at the factory!

I will be calling Heartland Customer Service on Monday to see what is up with this . . .

Our old trailer was 34 years old (1978 Coachman Cadet 24') when we traded it in, and none of this stuff ever happened to it!

And we took that old beast into some remote places I'd never dream of taking our new trailer!

And it is still going strong today under a new owner!

Recheck your weight sticker.. 7700 is your GVWR, should be about 5700--5800 out the door empty.
 

Niles

Well-known member
You have to remember that axle weight does not carry the trailer, you have your tongue weight. Our BH has almost 3500# of weight on the truck. As for springs we went though this too, Lippert sent me new springs and we replaced them, it's not a big job if you got the tools to do it. However don't waste your time putting Lipperts junk on, they will look the same in a short time, do as some others have suggested and go to a spring shop and have them made. It's all about the cheap metal in the springs, your old trailer I'm sure had better quality springs than any of us can get today.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Well . . . no help from Heartland or Lippert.

They both offered to sell me the parts, but none of this is covered by any kind of warranty.

Oh well . . .
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I would like to offer a solution if you have not already fixed this problem. Every city has an industrial trailer and spring shop. If I had a problem such as yours, I would find an industrial spring shop that would cut off the fittings and install a more durable fitting and a set of real trailer springs. Its not going to cost you any more or less and you will have a job done by men who do it everyday, with real world results.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Thanks for the suggestions!

I'll be calling the two places mentioned in this thread about getting the springs replaced, but it seems I've discovered something!

I think I bought this trailer with the springs already flat!

I've been looking over the photos I've taken since the day we purchased our trailer, then looked at the Heartland website only to discover that their very own photos show the Trail Runners sitting much higher off of the ground than ours did from day one!

Plus, I've got a shot where I ran into another fellow Trail Runner owner in the parking lot of a local Home Depot sitting side by side with mine.

Here is a shot from the Heartland website (look closely at the tires and wheels and how they fit under the fender):

2015_tr_ext_22.png


Now here are some shots in chronological order with the very first shot taken across the highway from the dealer barely five minutes after we pulled out of their parking lot the day we bought it (September 11, 2012):

NewCamperTruck-P9110306.jpg Campout2012CampingWorld-PC270075.jpg OutOfGasInNebraska-IMG1198.jpg CheyenneMtnCO2014-IMG_2096.jpg EstesPark-IMG_2845.jpg Newtruck&trailer-IMG_20140829_090639644.jpg TruckCamperHomeDepot-IMG_20140828_132314121.jpg TrucksCampersHomeDepotBack-IMG_20140828_131933533.jpg TrucksCampersHomeDepot-IMG_20140828_131846186.jpg SunCityRV-RVPark-IMG_20150122_075627618.jpg SunCityRV-IMG_20150122_173556536.jpg

Second shot two months after we bought it on it's maiden voyage 20 miles from our house at the Longmont, CO Camping World!

Plus, look at the two Trail Runners side-by-side in the Home Depot parking lot . . . my 2013 on the left and a 2014 on the right in the first shot of both trailers . . . notice how much higher off the ground the other one is?

The last two shots are at the RV repair place in Phoenix where we had the axel repaired three weeks ago (second to last shot if you look close enough you can see the front trailer tire leaning in at the top due to the blown out wheel bearing).

It is interesting that it always dragged on the frame and rear bumper every time I go over a bump since day one, plus I've had to remove two of the four scissor jacks as they dragged on the ground and have been considering removing the other two for the same reason, yet these new trailers are supposed to ride high!

I still am rather surprised that the RV repair shop in Phoenix didn't say something about the springs being flat, especially after I told them about how the trailer bottomed out on the tires on the way down.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Just finished talking with a trailer shop about getting the springs fixed . . . will be taking it there next week for an estimate.

He asked me how many leafs were on each spring . . . I counted four and he said there should be at least five.

I may also have them add shocks as well . . .
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Just finished talking with a trailer shop about getting the springs fixed . . . will be taking it there next week for an estimate.

He asked me how many leafs were on each spring . . . I counted four and he said there should be at least five.

I may also have them add shocks as well . . .

Hi John,

I recall a thread a year or so ago with a similar comment by a tech that there were supposed to be more leafs. It turned out that there are a lot of different spring configurations for a given weight rating and the tech's comment referred to one configuration - not all.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
There are only 5 leafs in my 7K springs. Its not the amount of leafs...its the weight rating per leaf.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
We upgraded ours from original (4 leaf?) to 3500lb EMCO 6 leaf when we changed axles from 6k to 7k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
OK . . . the trailer is at a trailer repair shop (Trailer Made Custom Trailers, LLC) in Northglenn, Colorado . . . about two miles from our house!

They manufacture custom trailers . . . car haulers and such, plus provide suspension repair!

Before I give you the details, I want to tell you their first impressions of what they saw when they crawled under our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner with less than 6000 miles on it from the factory . . .

When I arrived, the owner was running a little late and wasn't there yet, so the others helped me back the trailer into a tight space by their garage, and one of the techs crawled under the trailer and looked around and said (and I'm not making this up) . . .

"Jesus . . . I can't believe what I'm seeing!"!

Ironically, about 10 seconds later, the boss man called to let him know that he would be there in about 10 minutes.

He inquired about my trailer (as he knew I had an appointment with him - and I was on time . . . really! :rolleyes: . . . Cathy says I'm always late!), and the gentleman that was still investigating under my trailer said to him (exact words) . . .

"You won't believe this when you see it!"

Remember earlier in this topic thread when I said that he told me over the phone that my trailer should have five leafs in the springs and not four leafs?

And some said . . . "Well, that is what I had when we bought our Heartland trailer!?

Anyway, when he got there a few minutes later and crawled around and checked it out . . . he slid out from under my trailer and shook his head and asked me if I wanted to fix it the way it was from the factory . . . or did I want to do it right!

OK . . . I'm not going to get into every detail as it would take me two hours to type all of this up, but the down low is that they believe that the axles and springs for our trailer are just barely enough to make it legal on the road for dry weight and is more appropriate for a small light duty utility trailer!

Not a 28-foot travel trailer that weighs over 7000 pounds!

And he also told me that he felt that this trailer should have never left the factory with this light-weight of a setup.

That being said, to do the basic fix to make it the way it came from the factory, he felt that the repair we had done in Phoenix back in January was a bandaid to allow us to finish our trip and to get it home (cost us $1000 out of pocket and also said that he felt that is why we had the uneven wear that trashed out our tires on the rest of the trip), but felt that if we relied on that repair (the axle cut in half and welded back together fix that we got in Pheonix in the photos earlier in this topic thread) that most likely we would find ourselves sitting along side of the road waiting for our Good Sam's Roadside Assistance to come save us once again) within the next 1500 miles!

By the by . . . the Good Sam's Roadside assistance is cheap insurance that if you ever use it once . . . it pays for the yearly fee!

And by the by . . . I also thank Sun City RV in Phoenix, AZ for getting us fixed up and on the road, even though their repair wasn't the end-all of our problem!

Anyway, to fix it back to factory specs . . . it will cost us $800!

He feels that at minimum, we need to replace the axle that was cut in half as he doesn't think it (the repaired one we have now) will last much more that a couple thousand miles (which we already have a little over 1000 miles on that repair).

But . . . he also feels that if we replace both axles with heavier duty axles (ironically, he said when he first looked at the trailer before even looking under it that it only has 205/75/15's and a trailer this size should have at least 225/75/15's), it would last us a lifetime and really is what should have been put on by the manufacturer!

OK . . . right now I am awaiting a phone call from him as he is running this through our extended warranty provider (N-Compass, which I don't trust as they are only after the money they make at the signing of the loan and warranty, hoping that they will never have to pay out - proof since they left us hanging out to dry in Phoenix) . . .

It sounds like they may cover the cost of repair to make it equivalent to what Heartland provided from the factory.

But that is not enough!

Time to make Heartland send all of their units out with the proper suspension and everything else from the factory!

We'll see if they (edited in - extended warranty company - not Heartland) are willing to fix it right to what is actually needed for the trailer the way it should be manufactured from the factory!

I will hear from them either later this afternoon or tomorrow morning . . .

AxelRearDrivSide-IMG_3900.jpg FrontAxlePassSide-IMG_3906.jpg TireRub-IMG_3903.jpg TireRubBadGougedTireIMG_3911.jpg TireRub-IMG_3898.jpg TireRubBadGougedTire-IMG_3904.jpg

By the way . . . don't forget that all of these photos were taken with less than 6000 miles on our trailer from the day it left the Heartland factory!

Go outside and look at your trailer NOW!

When I hear from them, I'll post the rest of the story!
 
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chiefaret

Well-known member
John, I feel your pain! Don't expect much from Heartland as they don't much care once you sigh the contract to buy. I contacted a alignment shop because one of my axles is not aligned, the right side tire toed in and the left toed out. The said that is was probably the shackles welded on wrong. When I got hold of Heartland they pretty much told me that that was impossible that the shackles could be welded wrong and to take a flying leap. (maybe that is why they put correct track on their new units

Anyway after looking at the pics, I went and looked at mine. My trailer dry is 6700 lbs and it has 4 leafs. However, loaded it still has much more arch than you pics. Either the springs are faulty, or not thick enough. Probably some new employee needing gasses at the factory grabbed a set for a tent trailer and put them on your unit.

Good luck my friend.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
he felt that the repair we had done in Phoenix back in January was a bandaid to allow us to finish our trip and to get it home (cost us $1000 out of pocket and also said that he felt that is why we had the uneven wear that trashed out our tires on the rest of the trip

John,

It sounds like you've had 2 very different assessments about your trailer suspension and axles. The first being from Sun City RV. The 2nd from this new shop.

Have you discussed this latest assessment with Sun City RV to see what they have to say? I'd be pretty unhappy to spend $1,000 on a repair and be told a month or two later that it was done wrong and the fix was just a band-aid that won't last. Maybe Sun City told you that at the time and offered a choice of doing it quick or doing it right, but if not, maybe you should ask them to step up. Also, I don't recall from your prior posts, but did Sun City RV say anything about your suspension that would agree with what you're hearing now? Seems like if it was as plainly a problem as you're being told now, they must have noticed the same thing while working on the axle. If they didn't say anything, how would you reconcile that with what you're hearing now?

Btw, I was having an axle problem a few years ago and went to a trailer manufacturing and repair place. While they didn't denigrate the Dexter parts, they did offer to "solve all my axle, bearing, brake and suspension problems" by installing heavy duty gear that they use on their trailers. I considered it but was concerned about possibly complicating future maintenance and repair by using non-standard axles and other parts that might not be readily available at RV dealerships. Maybe that's nothing to worry about, but it stopped me.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
John, I understand your frustration. But I also have been down this road -- springs looked flat, etc. And I chose to replace my axles/springs/suspension at my expense, because I wanted better. I didn't fault Heartland, they created a trailer that I could afford at the time I wanted to buy. My new axles and leaf springs put on 2011 have lots of miles on them, and still perform as I expected. I did have to replace shackles and the suspension components this year. So however you want to look at it, these parts take a lot of abuse, and if you want something that's up to your expectation, spend the money when you buy it, or after that, but you are going to spend it. RVing is not a passive or cheap hobby.

Erika
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
If you like your rig and intend to keep it, get it fixed correctly. Yes it will be a out of pocket expense but it probably won't sting as bad as you might think. You will then have a rig with a good suspension, you will get good use of it then you will recover some of the expense in the end if you sell the rig outright (on a trade no one cares).

But for conversation sakes, I have never like the shackle mounts that Lippert puts on the frames. They seem inadequate for a fifth wheel.

Even though you have a travel trailer, I would specifically ask your shop what they think about the mounts. And if they need beefing up, I would go that extra step if i could.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Before anyone gets in a pickle . . . I am only stating what I was told by the repair facility.


No matter what happens . . . I am going to upgrade our trailer so that it has what is needed on it!

But the bottom line is this . . .


Maybe mine was one of those that was swapped for parts by the dealership for another trailer that was paying for an upgrade . . . or maybe this is just they way it comes from the factory!

I don't know . . . and right now I don't really care!

It is my trailer and I have to live with the issues at hand, and I need to make it safe for our use for the next several years that we plan on keeping it.

Don't get me wrong . . . I love our Heartland trailer and I really love the Heartland Owners Club and all of the friends we've made along the way on our journey.

And I will most likely buy another Heartland trailer again next time around!

However, now I know what to look out for . . .

Kind of like the BlowMax tires . . .

It really doesn't matter as no matter what it takes or what it costs . . . it will be done right when I get it back from them!

And we will love it for what we bought it for!

When we get our Trail Runner back from them after the repair, it will have the suspension that it should have had from the get go.

Matter of fact . . . it will have more than enough!

I haven't heard back from the repair shop yet (I told them not to rush and take as much time as they needed), so I'll report back in tomorrow when I hear back from them with the full report!

However, when it comes time to upgrade our trailer . . . I hope I still have trust in our current brand of travel trailer!
 
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JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
John, I feel your pain! Don't expect much from Heartland as they don't much care once you sigh the contract to buy. I contacted a alignment shop because one of my axles is not aligned, the right side tire toed in and the left toed out. The said that is was probably the shackles welded on wrong. When I got hold of Heartland they pretty much told me that that was impossible that the shackles could be welded wrong and to take a flying leap. (maybe that is why they put correct track on their new units

Anyway after looking at the pics, I went and looked at mine. My trailer dry is 6700 lbs and it has 4 leafs. However, loaded it still has much more arch than you pics. Either the springs are faulty, or not thick enough. Probably some new employee needing gasses at the factory grabbed a set for a tent trailer and put them on your unit.

Good luck my friend.

Thanks . . . can't wait to see you guys again down in Tucson.

We've cut back our summer travels (cancelled our Lake Tahoe trip) as we have to pay for all of this work, but we will be down there in February, 2016!
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
John,

It sounds like you've had 2 very different assessments about your trailer suspension and axles. The first being from Sun City RV. The 2nd from this new shop.

Have you discussed this latest assessment with Sun City RV to see what they have to say? I'd be pretty unhappy to spend $1,000 on a repair and be told a month or two later that it was done wrong and the fix was just a band-aid that won't last. Maybe Sun City told you that at the time and offered a choice of doing it quick or doing it right, but if not, maybe you should ask them to step up. Also, I don't recall from your prior posts, but did Sun City RV say anything about your suspension that would agree with what you're hearing now? Seems like if it was as plainly a problem as you're being told now, they must have noticed the same thing while working on the axle. If they didn't say anything, how would you reconcile that with what you're hearing now?

Btw, I was having an axle problem a few years ago and went to a trailer manufacturing and repair place. While they didn't denigrate the Dexter parts, they did offer to "solve all my axle, bearing, brake and suspension problems" by installing heavy duty gear that they use on their trailers. I considered it but was concerned about possibly complicating future maintenance and repair by using non-standard axles and other parts that might not be readily available at RV dealerships. Maybe that's nothing to worry about, but it stopped me.

Hey Dan . . .

I am also perplexed by the fact that Sun City never said anything about the springs . . . not sure what to think about that!

They didn't say that it was a band aid repair, but they did tell me that the repair they did was not their repair of choice!

Sun City RV advised us that the only other option to fix our axle was to replace it, but as there were no replacement axles available in the Phoenix area at the time and it would take at least a week to get one delivered (they checked), our only other option was to have them do what they did . . .

And again, I'm still somewhat amazed that they never mentioned the spring issue.

And as we are not full-timers . . . we had a destination (Arizona HOC Rally in Quartzsite - missed two days there) . . . and only had a limited number of days before we had to be back in Denver and back to work (and to get back to the rest of our seven kitty cats).

They had us on the road roughly 27 hours after the wheel bearing blew out.

And we thank them (Sun City RV in Phoenix) for that so that we could enjoy the rest of our vacation instead of spending it in a kRappy RV park that was not our choice for our trip (not to mention that we had already paid for several nights at the HOC Rally destination RV park).

Anyway, as it sits there is about a half inch of space between the top of the tires and the bottom of the trailer and slide out . . . not to mention the damage to the slide out and the bottom of the trailer where the trailer bottomed out on the tires.

Now, I know it is easy to believe that it is highly possible that someone is trying to pull one over on me . . .

However, I am in the sales business and I can usually tell when someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes (although I will admit that our trailer dealership got passed me - it is no secret that I will NEVER EVER AGAIN buy from or use them for anything), but I do feel strongly that the shop I'm dealing with for these repairs are steering me in the right direction.

I also do believe strongly that if what was on our trailer from our dealership is what Heartland thinks is sufficient . . . then perhaps they need to rethink their engineering of their products if they plan on keeping their current customers for future purchases.

Again . . . we bought it because we loved what we saw on the dealers lot!

But our trust is now floating out there in space . . .

And I hope that when we are ready to move up to a new RV that Heartland will be our brand of choice . . . and something that future customers shouldn't have to spend $1000's of dollars to make it what it should have been off of the dealers lot!
 

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