Build Quality

pcardoza · May 23, 2016

So, I had a small water leak over the weekend, where the connector to the water pump was not fully tight.

Every time I open the panel to access that area, I get sick to my stomach and the bird's nest of tubing, wiring and the fact that it's in total disarray. How in the world can a unit with an MSRP of $100k be allowed out the door like that? If I were an executive @ Heartland, I would be totally embarrassed............

Paul Cardoza
Foxboro MA
2014 Cyclone 4100 King

danemayer · May 23, 2016

Some people want everything neat, clean and perfectly organized, regardless of whether it's in plain view, or tucked away out of sight. Others don't care how the stuff behind the wall looks, as long as it works properly. And still others pay their dealers to take care of the stuff behind the wall and have no awareness of what's behind the wall.

One of my good friends was so upset that he set about to clean up the entire area, moving drain pipes and repositioning Pex lines and wiring.

Me? I just want it to work.

pegmikef · May 23, 2016

What Dan said x2.

NHCelt · May 23, 2016

Dan x 3. In most cases you would be horrified at your sticks and bricks too.

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pcardoza · May 23, 2016

Seems like a sad perspective to me. When you lay out the kind of $$$$ we do for these rigs, we should expect more. When we settle, there's nothing to drive improvement.

Trying to reach in and tighten one loose connector was an adventure.

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avvidclif · May 23, 2016

I would probably be happy if they would just clean up some of their mess. I get tired of vacuuming up sawdust after every trip.

Bohemian · May 23, 2016

I like it well organized and neat. It'should easier to trace and work on.

Also, Heartland could probably do some pre-plumbing of manifolds on a bench with a template, saving time and improving quality.

Lynn1130 · May 23, 2016

S

ome people want everything neat, clean and perfectly organized, regardless of whether it's in plain view, or tucked away out of sight. Others don't care how the stuff behind the wall looks, as long as it works properly.

That's fine until you come to the part of your statement that says "as long as it works". When it doesn't and water leaks seem to be that issue where it doesn't, often, then the owner or tech needs to work on the mess that is unsightly and like an explosion in a spaghetti factory. Heartland is not the only offender here. Just about any product where lines, wires or ducting is run, out of sight leave a mess with no rhyme or reason. That makes it difficult to work on and many times increases the time that a tech needs to correct the problem. Not professional, sorry to say.

And after 5 years I am still vacuuming sawdust out of heat ducts.

danemayer · May 23, 2016

I've done lots of work behind the wall and it hasn't slowed me down a bit or made it difficult to tighten a plumbing connection, or winterize, or add wiring for gate valve heaters, or change the pump, or change the check valve on the water heater, or put heat tape on the water lines, or insulate, or replace the transfer switch, or install CheapHeat, or add a water leak alarm, or anything else.

I'd suggest that for those who find it upsetting, do as my friend did. Get back there and fix it up to your heart's content. There's no need to let it ruin your camping experience. And if it doesn't bother you enough to fix it up, then recognize that maybe you share my "sad perspective" and let it go.

trading-time · May 23, 2016

There is "Slop" work & there is Professional work done by Skilled Craftsmen, What does the RV industry employ ?
I would like to think that Upper Management would care how units come to their Dealers, but maybe not.
Reminds me of the TV cable add where some people are Settlers, we allow the Slop work to continue when we
buy the units.

Lynn1130 · May 23, 2016

It doesn't ruin anything for me but it does show a lack of pride in workmanship. I can throw anything together and make it work. Making it work and having some pride in how it looks when I'm done is something else. It does not matter whether someone else ever sees it. The fact that I completed a professional job gives me pride in my work. I guess that is not the same for some others. "It works so who cares what it looks like" would make for some ugly looking planes, ships, buildings and plumbing.

As a side note to that, I think that was the British outlook on WWII planes. They built some really ugly planes but then there was the Spitfire. What a beauty.

TravelTiger · May 23, 2016

So what's an hourly rate for skilled labor? How much extra time will it take to get units off the line of everything's "done right"?

Now how many people are willing to wait even longer to get those units and pay a lot more for them??

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mlpeloquin · May 23, 2016

Ok - You want a neat clean behind the wall unit. Add another $40K. I bet the $180 to $240K units built out there are no different. They are all built the same. My cousin owns an RV repair business and he works on all of them. The cheapest to the most expensive. He says they are all like that and would never own one!

Kbvols · May 23, 2016

First I agree RV manufacturers can do a better job with the organization of wires plumbing, cleaning, overall quality etc.. I am sure Heartland would love to hire skilled labor the problem is the availability of labor be it skilled or unskilled. The labor market in Elkhart County is extremely competitive . Most employers in the area I talk with are thrilled to find anyone that can pass a drug screen or background check.

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oscar · May 23, 2016

They are shoving it out the door as fast as they can. Customer service is top notch, as long as you don't push back.

People are buying it. A free market at it's best. Are the buyers informed? **** no... but is it Caveat Emptor or are the manufacturers guilty of smoke and mirrors?

So, what's the issue here? You want better? Don't buy it. When enough people don't buy it things will change.

Imagine every car crumbling to pieces at 75000 miles........

- - - Updated - - -

Kbvols said:
First I agree RV manufacturers can do a better job with the organization of wires plumbing, cleaning, overall quality etc.. I am sure Heartland would love to hire skilled labor the problem is the availability of labor be it skilled or unskilled. The labor market in Elkhart County is extremely competitive . Most employers in the area I talk with are thrilled to find anyone that can pass a drug screen or background check.

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You do know they are all piece workers right? VOLUME OUT THE DOOR... is what pays them.

There's a structural issue there.

danemayer · May 23, 2016

You want better? Don't buy it. When enough people don't buy it things will change.

Not picking on you Oscar; lots of people express this same opinion. But I wonder. If your spouse loves the floor plan and the decor, and the appliances, and the exterior appearance, and all the storage, and all the other things that are important to her (or him), and the price is right, are you really going to say that you aren't buying because the area behind the basement wall isn't neat enough?

I asked DW and she said, "yeah, that wouldn't be a show stopper."

Maybe RV manufacturers know who the real decision makers are.

mlpeloquin · May 23, 2016

They also know that most owners never go behind the wall to see. The walls are screwed tight. I used hinges and gate latches to make mine easily accessible. But you look at two rigs about the same and equal, one cost 20K to 30K more and unseen is a nest clean behind the wall setup in the more expensive rig. Which one will you purchase? If what you can see is equal, the cheaper one. After all you can't see the labor and slower assembly line to make the behind the wall neat.

Westwind · May 23, 2016

An industry insider - Management - told me that the day's requirement - manufacturer so many units - once the plant mets it goal assembly personnel go home, should you work quickly and met your goal it could be a short day with full days pay. Doesn't encourage quality craftsmanship.

Shortest Straw · May 23, 2016

My father, when teaching me various crafts, used to say that you can always tell how proud someone is of their work by how well they do the things people will not notice. The fact that it is hidden is no excuse to have shoddy work done. None of you would put up with what we deal with in our rv's if it were an S&B or a car or an electronics piece with wires sticking out of the casing. Not one of you. If it were a S&B the plumbing electrical etc behind my basement wall wouldn't even pass pre purchase inspection. So we all settle, some of us way more than others. Add on top of that saw dust everywhere, wire, screws, and staples in the carpet.

Settle if you must, make yours better if you can, but for petes sake stop accepting shoddy work as normal, or making excuses for it.

TravelTiger · May 23, 2016

I can say we saw similar in our higher end, semi-custom built house in a country-club community, we had built in 2002. The crap left in the walls and all over the jobsite was crazy! Paint/texture/overspray on everything before the "final finishes" are in place. Lots of caulking to fix poor craftsmanship. I'd find beer cans in the house or outside nearly every time I visited the site after work. And that house was easily 4X the cost of my trailer.

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