2009 3055 Converter/Inverter questions

[ibrick]

Sorry for the length of this post but I'm trying to get my modified brain waves around the most challenging upcoming mod for our 'Horn.

We absolutely love our BigHorn and will be keeping it for a long time so changes are in order. We don't like having to fire up the genny to use the fireplace or a hair dryer or when we want to watch a movie/stereo while boondocking.

I figure the above equipment plus a couple of laptops would need a 2000w inverter if I don't use the fireplace and hair dryer simultaneously. Does that sound about right? Lighting, pump and fridge would remain 12v and propane.

I'm thinking of going with a Xantrex MSW inverter, do I need the Inverter/Battery charger model or is the power converter battery charger I have now adequate? Will I even need the existing converter/battery charger with a new inverter/ battery charger?

I'll also be switching over to 2-6v batteries from the 2-12v I have now, when they need replacemernt in the future.

Any advice or questions would greatly be appreciated as it would sure help my understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Thank you.
Rick

 

[2010augusta]

Well, I will try to help a bit. Unless you are adding a few more batteries or a solar power system, you will not not get much use out of a 2000 watt inverter and 2 batteries. If you have 2 group 27 deep cycles each with 105 amp hour capicaty, then you can only power 2000 watts of equipment for about 31 minutes. or 1000 watts of stuff for 1 hour. You will not be able to run the fire place or hair dryer very much before the battieries are dead. Here is a link to calulate how long batteries will last.

On the next part of your question Converters are plugged into 110V A.C. and output 12 volt d.c., and Inverters are powered by 12volt and output 110v with some form of an alternating current.

 

[ibrick]

Thanks Alan!

I'm finding the same info as I start my research into this. I went to the Xantrex site as they sound very respected and found this operating times calculator that's just like yours. http://www.xantrex.com/support/howlong.asp

I need more amp/hour storage to do what I want. I found that 2-12v batteries connected like they show in the following link is 12v. http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm By using 4-6v batteries connected like the link shows I also have 12v but I have increased my amp/hour storage big time. If I'm careful with the 6v battery dimensions I should be able to get 2 under the hydraulics and 2 just on the other side of the metal wall in the front storage space. I need to research 6v batteries now to see what type of amp hours I would get, then plunk those values into the calculator to see how much usage I would receive. That same link shows that a golf cart battery or T-105 weighs in at 61lbs each, might have to check to see if the floor will hold 245lbs in that corner.

So am I correct in assuming that the new inverter goes in before the converter? In other words, power comes in via cable and is connected to Inverter, batteries are disconnected from converter and connected to Inverter, existing Converter is now connected to Inverter.

p.s. lots of good additional info in your link, thanks again

 

[2010augusta]

I don't know about the floor in the storage compartment, but we have the 5500 watt onan generator mounted in the storage compartment, and it weight around 400#. You didn't mention if you have the factory genset or a external generator. There are a few people on the forum that have 6-8 6volt batteries in the trailers. hopefully they will chime in.

 

[newbie]

Rick,

I have 2 6v batteries with a 2500 watt modified sine wave inverter and a built in 6500 watt Onan.

We use the inverter to power appliances during quite hours. Items like the microwave and resistive loads use a lot of power. I don't think it would be practical to use the fireplace as it will run you batteries down quick. It is good for things like hair dryers that will only be on for a few minutes.

I came right off the battery post with parallel 2/0 battery cable directly wired to the inverter. The house battery cable (and converter) still are also wired directly to the battery. This set up has worked well for me.

Since we have the generator, we use that if we need a larger load for an extended period to save the batteries. You still need to run the genset to recharge the batteries often.

John

 

[ibrick]

Thanks Guys, my head isn't hurtin as bad, now that I'm getting a grasp of how this is done and why.

Alan- Good news on the weight and I have an external that rides in the box of the truck.

John- Are you happy with the MSW Inverter? Any issues with TV display or laptop use? I'm also looking for that quiet time use. You made me rethink the fireplace and you're right, I play with real fire outside when boondocking.

Quote-"I came right off the battery post with parallel 2/0 battery cable directly wired to the inverter. The house battery cable (and converter) still are also wired directly to the battery. This set up has worked well for me." I need help with this part, you have the 2/0 coming from the battery to the inverter, how'd you get power from the inverter to the plugs that power the tv's, stereo and hairdryer. Would I run a power cable from the Inverter to the 120 breaker box?

I've since also learned, thanks to Alan's link and others, that you don't want to discharge a deep cycle battery to more than 40-50%.

So now I'm putting together all the things I'll be using and for how long in that quiet period before calling it a nite and first thing in the morning. I just want to make sure I have enough capacity (40-50%)for that morning hair dryer after the previous nights movie and laptop use. It'll also tell me what capacity I should be looking for from the batteries.

 

[newbie]

Rick,

I mounted the inverter to the ceiling of the basement, adjacent to the battery compartment (just behind the pipe chase bulkhead). They inverter manual stated I needed to keep the battery cable under 6 feet. From there, I ran 12/2 MC cable (cable length on the AC side isn't an issue) through the underbelly and up to a dedicated quad receptacle on the back side of the kitchen peninsula. In our camper, that puts it adjacent to the desk and entertainment center and can be used for kitchen applainces. Fishing the MC cable through the underbelly was a PITA but after several hours I got everything just the way I wanted it.

I considered back feeding the breaker box (via a dedicated 20 amp breaker) but decided that phantom loads could run the battery down. We have since been dry camping twice and were satisfied with the dedicated outlet near the kitchen. We ended up using the genset for about 4 hours a day (mainly in the evening) and the inverter primarily in the early morning and occasionally during the day.

Our 2500 watt MSW inverter has run everything so far except a my Bosch jigsaw. It starts our pancake air compressor without a problem and runs the microwave, (which, BTW, is an energy hog!), vacuum, etc.

I would have liked a pure sine wave inverter but couldn't justify the cost for our occasional use.

John

 

[ibrick]

Just thought I'd report back with my research findings in case anybody was thinking of doing something like this or for information of what equipment Heartland has put into the 09 3055. I also really appreciate the fact that corners were not cut in this part of my 5ver.

FYI
-The converter/charger used is a Progressive Dynamics Inteli-Power 9200
http://www.progressivedyn.com/power_converters_9200.html
I'm assuming the 9260C (60 amp) as the horn's a 50 amp unit but I haven't opened
the wall to confirm the actual unit. No matter, features are the same on all models.
-Built-in Charge Wizard
Has 3 charging voltages, Boost-14.4v, Normal-13.6v, Storage-13.2 after 30 hours, Equalization- 14.4v for 15 minutes every 21 hours. (reduces sulfation buildup) Nice, my horn is plugged in 24/7 when at home.
-Over Voltage Protection
Automatically shuts down over 132 volts input.
-Low Voltage Protection
Doesn't actually say it shuts down at less than 105volts, hmmm

So, I just need an Inverter, no charger necessary.

Sounds like I'm covered for over voltage but, do I risk burnouts of equipment if my input drops below 105 volts and the converter doesn't shut down?
I sent this question to Progressive Dynamics, will let you know the answer.

 

[2010augusta]

These are a nice accessory

While you are working with the power system, you should consider one of these to monitor what the converter is doing and over-ride it to boost mode to charge the batteries faster with the Generator. The cost is just about $10.

 

[ibrick]

Absolutely Alan, at a minimum. Also looking at other after market battery health/usage monitors. Some even come with remote generator starting capabilities.
If I'm going through the trouble, might as well do it right.

Just checked out your blog, what an interesting lifestyle you, Sandy and the "kids" have, congrats!

 

[branson4020]

Rick,

The over voltage protection built-in to your converter only acts to protects that unit. It does nothing to protect the 120V systems in your coach.

 

[ChopperBill]

I have 4-6 volts and a Xantrex modified sine wave 3000w inverter. My opinion the inverter is not much more than a boat anchor. I wont run the micro too well and when it does it sucks the batteries in no time. I wouldn't try to use an inverter on the fire place unless you keep the heat off. If I was to do it all over again I would get a Pure sine wave in the range of 1200-1800w and use it for just the TV and other low powered appliances or laptop and cell phone chargers. I would use a generator if Renee needs to run a hair dryer. I have one portable 110w solar panel and have gone about 12 days without running the generator for charging the batteries this way.

 

[boatdoc]

Here's what I did

I run a 2000MSW off of 4 6VDC batts and the OEM 12VDC. Thery're all tied together. For the A/C side I fished a 12 guage cord to the back of the Horn where I put in another W/P exterior recepticle next to the shore power entrance recepticle. I made a little jumper to go from the inverter recepticle to the twist-lock Marinco style shore power recepticle.
My inverter is wireless remote controlled and works like a champ. As we go in for the evening I just plug my jumper in and turn the CHARGER breaker off and whenever Diana needs any power she's got it. It runs the M/V fine, although a little slower and her hair dryer in the morning. Works great for the coffee maker in the AM also, MY department. The TV and Direct TV box take very little power. With the remote, we can turn the inverter on/off as we want, as to not just keep it on and idle away amps.
Kind of foolproof and as long as you keep the fridge on gas and KNOW what appliance draws what, I think it is the easiest way to go. The whole house is heated up and none of that running around trying remember what circuit is on the inverter and what isn't.
We have used this same configuration on our last three trailers and works for US.
Hope this helps.