2011 Duramax Questions

danemayer

Well-known member
We're at Breckenridge, CO and have experienced some pretty cold weather. Temp got to 30 below zero a few nights ago, followed by a daytime high of 5 below, and the next night 20 below. In the mornings, our 2011 Sierra HD w/Duramax started right up and ran without any issues. I do have the engine heater plugged in overnight.

The only problem I ran into was one night the circuit breaker in our RV tripped, cutting off power to the engine heater. The next morning, the engine turned over a bit slowly and didn't start right up. After a couple of 15 second attempts, I stopped, found the tripped breaker, and decided to wait for the heater to do its job.

With these low temps, and daytime highs rarely above freezing, and the earlier comments about UREA, I'd expect the DEF tank to be frozen. I'm puzzled that so far it hasn't been a problem.
 

ncrebel8

Wesley and Niki Norwood
Danemayor,
What you are experiencing is more along the lines of most of the reviews found on the new trucks. If the DEF is frozen the software in the truck is not supposed to derate the truck. it should thaw out under normal driving and the truck would then go back to using it. You should never be able to tell any difference. The only time power to the truck should be cut back is if you ignore the DEF level warnings and it runs low or out.

The problems Riverman describes dont seem to be the norm. I am wondering if they have some other problems.

I do know that you guys who own 2011 trucks need to stay on top of the software upgrades to the trucks. GM released an update around Jan 13, 2011 that deals with the DEF. Something about the levels and warnings. The tech bulletin says there wil be more updates to the software to follow.
 

lwmcguir

Well-known member
The majority of the problems our company is having is indeed with the urea or DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid).
This product has a freeze point of -7C or 19F, so if the truck is left outside in colder temperatures the urea freezes.
When you start the truck after it is cold, the engine derates as it is unable to get a supply from the frozen tank.
There are coolant lines running to this tank, but in the kind of weather we have, this fluid is no where near a liquid state before the computer calls for it. Our interm solution was to leave these units in a heated shop until required...that works well except once we have them running unattended in the cold environment, the unit will eventually go into "regen" mode and it is unable to complete the regen cycle while idling.
This means that if you happen to catch it at the time it needs to regen, you must drive it for a period at speeds greater than 30mph. If you miss the regen cycle, the unit will once again derate.
We currently have GM techs on site attempting to resolve the issue, but no solutions as yet.
They do make pretty conversation pieces parked in the shop!

I don't like to start my Diesels when the temp is below zero unless they are plugged in. We don't plug them in unless we intend to use them. Last week when it was -14 here DW needed to use the 6.7 F350 early one morning. She went out, started it and jumped and drove over 100 miles to her destination. No issues whatsoever except she said it was nice to have the heated seats as the truck took 15 miles to warm up. Curious to see how it works the next cold snap as I am going to drive it on purpose to see if there are any issues. So far it is great.
 
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lwmcguir

Well-known member
One other note regarding Ford Diesels is that the computer does show you the level indicators in the tank (no gauge) so there is never a reason to run out. If you do run out you can drive until you shut it down/get off the highway. Then you to coin the earlier phrase enter the limp mode. There quite a few large semis running urea and it has worked out well. Some of you over the road guys could chime in about that. And quite a few truck stops already have the DEF pumps.
 

Riverman

Well-known member
Doesn't seem to be an isolated incident. The company I work for bought 40 of these 2011 Duramax units.
Each and every one have made numerous trips to various dealers for derate problems.
The latest updates were done which seems to have helped to some extent
Not to the point yet where I would advise taking the tow truck off speed dial.
 

6.7powerstroke

Active Member
I can't speak for the GM products, but for the Ford, the DEF is designed to freeze in the truck. I have started and driven mine in Fraser Colorado dozens of times (Fraser is known as the icebox of North Amercia). Several times it has been well below 0F, and I have never plugged this truck in once. On ours, the DEF is not needed until the engine has warmed up. There is a small heater that is in the tank and comes on when the truck is turned on. This will heat and thaw the DEF so it can be used once the truck is warmed up. I have been told the truck's PCM will not call for DEF until the engine is up to operating temp.

As for the gauge, there is an indicator in the LED screen that is primitive at best. It shows only three different readings.
1. DEF over 1/2 full
2. DEF under 1.2 full
3. XX miles until empty, starting at 800 miles. As another poster noted, the engine will go into limp home if you run it out.

I honestly am not concerned about the cold weather, hasn't been an issue for me at least. Good luck!
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Dick,

After my purchase of the 2011 GMC a friend of mine asked me about the urea tank and I had the same response you had. I did some investigating and guess what . . . I had just bought one. More commonly known as Diesel Exhaust Fluid or DEF. The refill point is mounted under the hood of the engine with the tank mounted on the side of the driver-side frame rail. Supposedly, DEF refill intervals will vary depending on duty cycle with some of us only have to refill during routine maintenance, while others if they're towing frequently, will have to top off the tank sooner. In talking with my salesman the Duramax-equipped trucks will warn the driver when the fluid is down to a 1,000-mile range, after that a series of start-up warnings -- including lights, chimes and messages -- will become more frequent until the tank is empty. Before this the truck will only travel a top speed of 55 mph. If the driver continues to operate the truck with a dry tank, after a final warning and restart the truck will only operate in a "limp-home" mode that limits speed to just 5 mph until the tank is refilled. I guess if this is right than if a person does run out then it is more on them than anything else. Then again we always see some dumbass along the road with a gas tank stuck in their fill valve.

Great info. Please use a larger font size as it is hard to read on these old eyes.
 

Riverman

Well-known member
Just sent ours in for another update which may have solved their problems.
They are not really forthcoming with the details at the GM dealer, but I believe they have delayed the time before the engine calls for DEF as well as a sheild to keep the cold wind off the tank, which is along the passenger side frame rail. They have also increased the max high idle setting so that it will now regen without being driven. We have been blessed with milder temperatures lately, but they seem to be doing ok in -20C....we will have to see how they perform in -35C for the real test
 

ricatic

Well-known member
There has been some good info posted here and some not so good. I own a Ford 6.7 diesel with DEF injection and am also quite familiar with the GM as well. I hope all take what I am about to say as helpful information and not an attempt to belittle any brand. There is a lot to cover so this may be a long post.

DEF injection as emissions control has been around for several years, mainly in Europe. It is a mature system. Pilot Truck Centers have DEF bulk dispensers at many locations. The DEF runs $2.79 a gallon. Here is a link to the current Pilot locations that dispense bulk DEF.

Pilot Flying J - Locations with Diesel Exhaust Fluid

The product, as noted earlier is available at all major auto parts stores.

DEF freezes at 12 degrees F. The systems in both trucks are designed to accommodate freezing DEF. EPA regulations allow full operation of the engine at any time the DEF would be frozen. DEF is only injected into the exhaust stream at elevated Exhaust Gas Temperatures(EGT's). The higher the EGT's, the more demand placed on the DEF system. At cold operation temperatures, DEF is never injected. MY truck uses about 1 gallon of DEF per 1200 miles of driving during the summer. 8000 miles of towing my 13000 pound 3055RL have given me a good feel for the DEF consumption rate. The 1000 miles per gallon is inline with posted information as the GM does consume DEF at a higher rate. During these cold months my DEF consumption has dropped by 40%. This is also in line with predicted consumption at cold temperatures. I have had no problems with my truck.

The complaints about cold weather issues with some trucks are valid. The quantity of affected Ford trucks is very small and almost all of them are located in Northern Canada. There have been a couple in Alaska and 1 reported truck in the Vermont area. All events so far are in ambient temperatures well below 0 F. Ford's problem has been identified as a DEF/NOX sensor calibration problem. Some trucks have a NOX sensor that has an out of specification range and a wider reporting ability than the interpretation software allows. When this happens, it looks to the software like there is a problem and a Check Engine Light(CEL) appears. Ford investigations have shown that 95% of these CEL's are nuisance reports. Dealers are instructed to check for DTC codes and turn off the CEL light. If the CEL light reoccurs, the customer is told to drive the vehicle normally and ignore the CEL for the time being. There is nothing inherently wrong. The Ford does not go into limp mode with this problem. Ford has developed the software solution for recalibrating the DEF NOX sensor parameter problem. However, because this is an emissions problem, all software solutions must be approved by the EPA. As soon as the approval is granted, the necessary programming changes can be made.

Unfortunately, as of last week, GM's problems are more in number, cover a larger geographic area and a wider and warmer temperature spread. The ugly side of their problem is a large number of the affected trucks go into limp mode. There have been a couple of temporary software updates issued to stem the spread of the problem. I do not know what the success rate is for the latest revision. These upgrades must remain temporary until the EPA approves whatever final software update that GM proposes.

What is really ugly about this whole mess, for both manufacturers, is that all trucks coming off the assembly lines are required to be programmed with the current approved emissions coding. This means that even if the solution has been developed, they can not apply it until an EPA approval is obtained. Ford has tightened the quality control on the suspect sensors to attempt to mitigate immediate problem child trucks. I have no information to share on GM's progress. I just do not know.

I hope this helps

Regards
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Just got back Tuesday from very cold Colorado to temperate Austin, TX. Today (Thursday), the DEF warning message came on, notifying me that I had 298 miles left and needed to refill. Stopped at O'Reilly and bought 2 - 2.5 gal jugs. Strangely, the tank would only accept about 4 gallons, instead of 5. Even stranger, the error message continues to be displayed, indicating that I have have 292 miles remaining (even after several restarts of the truck). It looks like dealer service will have to resolve whatever is wrong. Based on mileage since the last refill, and that it only took 4 gallons, I'm guessing it still had at least 1 gallon of DEF in the tank and something else is wrong.

Also had another bizarre malfunction on I-70 west of Denver. Going up the mountain, the top radiator hose popped loose from the radiator and blew out most of the coolant in the 30 seconds it took to get pulled off the road. Got the hose back on and refilled and it held for the rest of the trip, but am still getting a low coolant msg even though the overflow container shows full. The dealer will have to decide what happened and why the msg. If you have a 2011 Duramax, you may want to take a look at how your hose is attached to the radiator, just in case...
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Dealer flashed new February software to clear the DEF problem.

On the radiator problem, they examined the upper radiator hose mounting and judging from the impression in the hose, the clamp was factory positioned on the flange, rather than inside the flange, making a poor seal and allowing it to work loose. They also replaced the clamp in case it was weak.
 

Riverman

Well-known member
Well we had temperatures down to -31C last night with wind chills to -45C.
2 of our 2011 Duramax units were out working and both made it back to our shop without derating to limp mode!!
Only DIC warnings were low tire pressure(probably due to the extreme cold)
It would appear that the latest updates seem to have resolved the majority of the problems.
That being said, I still don't think I would consider purchasing a new Duramax for my personal use.
Our Cummins is still performing flawlessly.
 

Warnerelli

Semper Fi
Took possession of my 2011 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax/Allison last night. Spent most of the night reading the manuals, etc. I spent today playing with all the bells and whistles and a drive through the Northland. She sure is sweet riding and driving. I know we will have below freezing temps again before the year is out and if I experience any issue with the DEF will let all know. Talked in length with the dealership about issues and they assurred me they still had none reported. Key word is dealership. Time will tell. Sorry to hear of your situation Dane and hope all is well now.
 

wonka

Active Member
Well having driven mine in -38 f, I'm not sure why you think they all freeze up. I have not experienced any issues so far, but don't expect to as the temps shouldn't drop that low again. With the temps you are suggesting (-7c) I have a hard time believing it, the cut out on my block heater is -15c, so until it gets that cold it's basically not even plugged in. I'm guessing you have other issues.
 
Hey guys, i was reading about the Durmax Regen, I am ready to pull the trigger on a new DMAX because i thought the UREA replace the REGEN. According to what i'm reading, i am wrong in those thoughts, I was gonna buy a cummins but decided since i just drive a few miles a week and then the occasional RV (9000 lb cardinal TT) that i would get the duramax.....It appears from what i read there is no rhyme or reason on the Cummins regin so i picked the DMAX.... I have been told by many the cummins must be driven for smooth regin......I may not drive 10 miles a week for months and then drive hundreds if not thousands on RV Trips??? Do you think this would be an issue with the DMAX???
 

wonka

Active Member
I can`t see it being an issue. I have shut her down half way through a couple of times with no ill effects, it just started regen again once it reached operating temp.
 

Rickhansen

Well-known member
...I thought the UREA replace the REGEN. According to what i'm reading, i am wrong in those thoughts... I may not drive 10 miles a week for months and then drive hundreds if not thousands on RV Trips??? Do you think this would be an issue with the DMAX???

The 2011 Duramax still Regens about every 800 miles. It will complete in about 20 minutes of highway driving. If interrupted by shutting off, slower driving, etc. it will resume when warmed up anf driving again. The regen is done with a 9th fuel injector in the exhaust, positioned after the turbo. The keeps the ECU from having to re-tune the engine. This setup prevents oil dilution and coking of the turbo. The urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) works with SCR (Catalytic Convertor of sorts) to break down Nitrous Oxides in the exhaust.

As I understand, the exhaust fluid isn't needed on the Cummins because it uses massive amounts of EGR, which has it's own drawbacks.

I can't see that not driving for extended issues would be a consideration for either vehicle.
 

Delaine and Lindy

Well-known member
I have a 2011 Chevy 3500HD DRW's and have about 6,100 miles on the clock most has been towing the 5th wheel. No message yet, and its for sure the best 3500HD I have owned. I do have a 2.5 gal container of DEF onboard, just waiting for the message. I'm in Colorado and have checked two Wal Mart stores and none have had the DEF. I bought the DEF I have now in Tennessee first week of June... As we all know, new products or options will have bugs for a while. Dodge boys got a break, but I believe in 2014 they will be using DEF in all the Diesel Trucks. Class 8 Trucks are using it now and has been for sometime..
 

ricatic

Well-known member
I have a 2011 Chevy 3500HD DRW's and have about 6,100 miles on the clock most has been towing the 5th wheel. No message yet, and its for sure the best 3500HD I have owned. I do have a 2.5 gal container of DEF onboard, just waiting for the message. I'm in Colorado and have checked two Wal Mart stores and none have had the DEF. I bought the DEF I have now in Tennessee first week of June... As we all know, new products or options will have bugs for a while. Dodge boys got a break, but I believe in 2014 they will be using DEF in all the Diesel Trucks. Class 8 Trucks are using it now and has been for sometime..

Interesting position regarding the Dodge boy's getting a break...why do you think this? Other than a small group of problem trucks last winter, the DEF emissions systems have proven to be reliable and very cost effective...I will take the DEF over hyperactive EGR emissions control any day...
 

wonka

Active Member
I have been told they didn't get a break, but are paying the EPA fine until they get the urea onboard. Could just be speculation, but I was sure that all oil burners were to on urea by 2011 production. On a side note, the cheapest price I've found for the urea was at a Cumins dealer.
 
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