2014 1/2 - 4100 King with 3 way a/c switch question/problem

[ptysonjr]

While doing the PDI we were informed that our coach with 3 a/c units has a 3 way light switch. When demonstrating this switch it was discovered that we could 1. run bed room and garage, 2. run garage only and 3. run living and garage. Another buyer was doing his PDI with the exact same set up and we both came out complaining about the same thing, option 2 should be Bedroom and living room. Having garage only would be the least important option of all options and living/bedroom would be by far the most important in the Texas heat. The dealer says he is working to get to the bottom of this with the factory and if there is a change we may have to pay for it even though our salesman informed us we could run any combination of 2 at a time. Can you please tell me if there is a fix for this and if so who should my dealer call? THIS HAS TO BE FIXED BEFORE SUMMER EVEN IF I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. I should not have to pay for this but it is that important to me and I am sure all owners of this setup in the southern US would feel the same way.

I purchased my unit at Explore USA in Mesquite, TX. and working with BJ the Service Manager on this.


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[danemayer]

Hi ptysonjr,

I don't have a Cyclone, but my understanding was that the living room A/C was always available and there was a transfer switch that let you switch power between bedroom and garage. From your description, it sounds like the garage is always available and the transfer switch is switching between living room and bedroom.

Hopefully not too difficult to straighten out.

 

[ptysonjr]

Hi ptysonjr,

I don't have a Cyclone, but my understanding was that the living room A/C was always available and there was a transfer switch that let you switch power between bedroom and garage. From your description, it sounds like the garage is always available and the transfer switch is switching between living room and bedroom.

Hopefully not too difficult to straighten out.

The options are exactly as I have outlined them and confirmed with an identical coach. Should not be too hard I agree but I have had my unit for 3 weeks and still no answers.

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[Beemer]

I have a '14 4100 with the 3 way switch, but mine is wired so that living room is always available. Mine is: 1. Bed room and Living. 2. Living only. 3. Living and garage. Wonder why the difference?


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[alex00]

Hopefully it is just a matter of switching some wires around on the transfer switch. I'd like to know how the dealer/Heartland resolves this. If it was the front bedroom as the 'master', and switched between the living room and garage, that would be ideal for us. There were many earlier posts with people wondering how to run all three at once, and/or switch the 'master' unit.

As Dan pointed out, the old configuration was supposed to be LR as 'master', and either BR or Garage. I wonder if they changed it because more and more people are using the garage as a second bedroom. It's just odd they would make the garage the 'master' instead of the bedroom.

You may want to call Heartland directly. I bet they can walk you through the wiring yourself if you don't want to drag it to the dealer.

 

[ptysonjr]

Hopefully it is just a matter of switching some wires around on the transfer switch. I'd like to know how the dealer/Heartland resolves this. If it was the front bedroom as the 'master', and switched between the living room and garage, that would be ideal for us. There were many earlier posts with people wondering how to run all three at once, and/or switch the 'master' unit.

As Dan pointed out, the old configuration was supposed to be LR as 'master', and either BR or Garage. I wonder if they changed it because more and more people are using the garage as a second bedroom. It's just odd they would make the garage the 'master' instead of the bedroom.

You may want to call Heartland directly. I bet they can walk you through the wiring yourself if you don't want to drag it to the dealer.

May be my only option if I don't get some answers soon.

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[alex00]

May be my only option if I don't get some answers soon.

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I'd be really surprised if a call to Heartland doesn't get you answers.

 

[HornedToad]

I don't have a Cyclone with 3 AC's, but this is what I know from adding an AC in the garage of my TH. In layman's terms... you electricians please correct me if I'm wrong.

A trailer with 50 AMP electrical service is really a combination of a 20 AMP circuit dedicated to the main AC and a 30 AMP circuit to the house (everything else). The average 15,000 BTU AC will draw close to 15 AMPS (more to start / less running). So you cannot run 2 AC's each pulling 15 AMPS on a 30 AMP circuit.

The switching combination should be determined by the AC on the dedicated 20 AMP circuit, which should be the main AC (living area), and which two of the other AC's are on the 30 AMP circuit that would need to be switched back and forth. Now these other two AC's are still wired with 20 AMP yellow romex to their own separate 20 AMP breakers, but they are probably both stacked on the main 30 AMP circuit. You should be able to test this fairly easily by flipping the breakers on the main panel. (better to flip w/ AC off, then power AC to test)

If in fact the living AC is on the dedicated 20 AMP circuit it sounds like the switch is wired wrong and it should be a simple fix to rewire the switch. If the switch is wired correctly as described would indicate the garage AC is on the 20 AMP circuit and to change it as you desire is going to be a little more complicated.

ADDED COMMENT: The breaker test outlined above assumes the AC's are hard wired directly to the breaker panel. If they are wired through the switch then the wiring of the switch determines the main AC and you should be able to change the main AC by rewiring the switch. I hope my post does not imply that you should or could attempt to rewire these AC's yourself, I hope it has confused you enough to realized this is definitely a job for a qualified electrician.

 

[danemayer]

I don't have a Cyclone with 3 AC's, but this is what I know from adding an AC in the garage of my TH. In layman's terms... you electricians please correct me if I'm wrong.

A trailer with 50 AMP electrical service is really a combination of a 20 AMP circuit dedicated to the main AC and a 30 AMP circuit to the house (everything else). The average 15,000 BTU AC will draw close to 15 AMPS (more to start / less running). So you cannot run 2 AC's each pulling 15 AMPS on a 30 AMP circuit.

The switching combination should be determined by the AC on the dedicated 20 AMP circuit, which should be the main AC (living area), and which two of the other AC's are on the 30 AMP circuit that would need to be switched back and forth. Now these other two AC's are still wired with 20 AMP yellow romex to their own separate 20 AMP breakers, but they are probably both stacked on the main 30 AMP circuit. You should be able to test this fairly easily by flipping the breakers on the main panel. (better to flip w/ AC off, then power AC to test)

If in fact the living AC is on the dedicated 20 AMP circuit it sounds like the switch is wired wrong and it should be a simple fix to rewire the switch. If the switch is wired correctly as described would indicate the garage AC is on the 20 AMP circuit and to change it as you desire is going to be a little more complicated.

ADDED COMMENT: The breaker test outlined above assumes the AC's are hard wired directly to the breaker panel. If they are wired through the switch then the wiring of the switch determines the main AC and you should be able to change the main AC by rewiring the switch. I hope my post does not imply that you should or could attempt to rewire these AC's yourself, I hope it has confused you enough to realized this is definitely a job for a qualified electrician.

HornedToad,

Sorry but your assumptions about the available power and wiring are not quite right. The 50 amp pedestal has 2 hot legs that each provide 50 amps to the coach, so you have 100 amps available. The limitation on the A/C is because the generator doesn't provide quite as much amperage and wouldn't be able to power all 3 units at the same time.

ptysonjr, I'm not sure how the wiring is arranged, but my guess would be that there's a 20 amp circuit breaker with wires that go directly to the A/C unit that's not switched, and another circuit breaker (maybe 15amp) that has wires going to the A/C transfer switch. The A/C transfer switch would have 2 sets of output wires, one set going to each of the switched A/C units.

I would think it would be pretty straightforward to rearrange the wires to make any one of the A/C units primary, with 2 possible issues: The living room A/C may require more power than the other 2 units, depending on what size the A/C units are. Some units are 15,000 BTU, others are 13,500 BTU. Don't know what you have. I think the 15,000 BTU unit requires a 20amp breaker and wiring where the 13,500 BTU may require only a 15amp breaker and wiring. The other possible issue is whether there's enough slack in the existing wiring to make the rearrangement. If not, splices would be required and I'm pretty sure to comply with electrical codes, the splices have to be inside electrical boxes.

I don't think there are any show-stoppers here - it's just a matter of the tech getting clear direction from Heartland on what needs to be done.

Let us know what you hear back from Heartland.

 

[Bob&Patty]

You need to call HL yourself. Explain your issues with the A/C's. DON'T WAIT FOR YOUR DEALER TO DO IT. Have your VIN# handy. BTW, HL will know if your dealer has called them on this and when. You just might be surprised as to the answer.

 

[HornedToad]

danemayer,

I'm going to agree to disagree with you...

I had an electrician add a 50 AMP RV plug to the side of my house, to do so he added a double pole 50 AMP breaker to the panel for a total of 100 AMPS. (100 AMPS X 120 VOLTS = 12,000 WATTS)

So yes on shore power you have 100 AMPS to the coach, but isn't all you have in the coach limited by the individual breakers on each circuit? And yes my assumptions were based on the limitations of a 5500 watt generator, but aren't your breakers the same whether you are on shore power or generator?

The pre wire for the bedroom AC in my TH is 20 AMP romex on a 20 AMP breaker and all the new Dometic AC units regardless of BTU's specify 20 AMPS except the High Efficiency model.
(That's what I installed in my garage, now we know why)
See page 68 in attached link... http://www.dometic.com/b0b50c56-b5d2-4956-abae-1a6dedb12e0c.fodoc

I welcomed you to correct me in my post, and I appreciate that, so I can learn more about my RV. Thanks.

 

[ptysonjr]

Good stuff folks, thank you and keep it up

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[danemayer]

So yes on shore power you have 100 AMPS to the coach, but isn't all you have in the coach limited by the individual breakers on each circuit? And yes my assumptions were based on the limitations of a 5500 watt generator, but aren't your breakers the same whether you are on shore power or generator?

There are two 50 amp main breakers in the circuit breaker box. Each of the lesser breakers in the box is drawing current through one of those 50 amp mains. The circuit breaker loads should be distributed between the two mains so that you're not likely to overload and trip a main. And yes, the breakers are same whether on shore power or generator. That's why you can't have 3 A/C units running at the same time - it'd be too easy to exceed the generator's capacity and trip the breakers on the generator.

A trailer with 50 AMP electrical service is really a combination of a 20 AMP circuit dedicated to the main AC and a 30 AMP circuit to the house (everything else).

Your statement would describe one of the 50 amp mains. But there are two 50 amp mains.

 

[scottyb]

danemayer,

I'm going to agree to disagree with you...

I had an electrician add a 50 AMP RV plug to the side of my house, to do so he added a double pole 50 AMP breaker to the panel for a total of 100 AMPS. (100 AMPS X 120 VOLTS = 12,000 WATTS)

So yes on shore power you have 100 AMPS to the coach, but isn't all you have in the coach limited by the individual breakers on each circuit? And yes my assumptions were based on the limitations of a 5500 watt generator, but aren't your breakers the same whether you are on shore power or generator?

The pre wire for the bedroom AC in my TH is 20 AMP romex on a 20 AMP breaker and all the new Dometic AC units regardless of BTU's specify 20 AMPS except the High Efficiency model.
(That's what I installed in my garage, now we know why)
See page 68 in attached link... http://www.dometic.com/b0b50c56-b5d2-4956-abae-1a6dedb12e0c.fodoc

I welcomed you to correct me in my post, and I appreciate that, so I can learn more about my RV. Thanks.

Your panel has all 100A going to it from Shore power either directly or through the transfer switch. It is then used as separate legs through smaller circuits, and each AC should be on a dedicated circuit. 50A shore power could easily run all 3 AC's.

 

[cookie]

The pre wire for the bedroom AC in my TH is 20 AMP romex on a 20 AMP breaker.....

I welcomed you to correct me in my post, and I appreciate that, so I can learn more about my RV. Thanks.

Actually your Romex is most likely in a yellow sheath containing three wires. A black, white and bare copper.
It will be labeled 12-2G.
This is adequately sized to be protected by a 20 amp breaker.

Peace
Dave

 

[HornedToad]

OK...

So my description of a 50 AMP circuit as a 20 AMP breaker dedicated to the AC & a 30 AMP breaker for the rest of the house was describing the breakers on the generator in front of the two 50 AMP main breakers which would limit power when on the generator to running the main AC and having 30 AMPS for the rest of the house meaning only one other AC.

With 100 AMPS on shore power you could conceivably load up to 15/20 AMPS on each of any combination of 5/6 (20X5=100 or 6X15=90) of the 15/20 AMP breakers without tripping one of the two 50 AMP main breakers. So scottyb is right you could conceivably run all 3 AC's on shore power.

Now that brings us back to the original post, even though on shore power you could run all 3 AC's at once, is the reason you cannot do this because the system is wired with this switch we've been talking about to protect the generator???

danemayer, please put a caboose on this train.

 

[HornedToad]

Actually your Romex is most likely in a yellow sheath containing three wires. A black, white and bare copper. It will be labeled 12-2G. This is adequately sized to be protected by a 20 amp breaker.

My bad Dave... no such term, I call it 20 AMP romex because the 12 gauge yellow romex is rated to handle 20 AMPS while the 14 gauge white romex is rated to carry 15 AMPS. So a quick look at the wire tells you if your dealing with a 15 or 20 AMP circuit.

 

[priorguy]

My bad Dave... no such term, I call it 20 AMP romex because the 12 gauge yellow romex is rated to handle 20 AMPS while the 14 gauge white romex is rated to carry 15 AMPS. So a quick look at the wire tells you if your dealing with a 15 or 20 AMP circuit.

Isn't all HVAC wire supposed to be red no matter the AWG? At least in my jurisdiction for residential installations it is. Just to add more confusion.


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[HornedToad]

ptysonjr,

I know you enjoyed standing back and watching me get beat up on this thread,
because of the post you threw in the middle egging things on!!!

Good stuff folks, thank you and keep it up

I seem to learn my lessons the hard way and the wuppin' I took was worth it,
because now I have a much better understanding on the scheme of things
electrical in my trailer.

please put a caboose on this train.

I guess it's up to you to close out this thread by posting how you/they
fix your switch. I still have a few nagging questions that I'm sure the
work around on your switch will answer.

PS Your gonna need all those AC's when you get back to Texas,
our high was 85 degrees last weekend.

 

[ptysonjr]

ptysonjr,

I know you enjoyed standing back and watching me get beat up on this thread,
because of the post you threw in the middle egging things on!!!

I seem to learn my lessons the hard way and the wuppin' I took was worth it,
because now I have a much better understanding on the scheme of things
electrical in my trailer.

I guess it's up to you to close out this thread by posting how you/they
fix your switch. I still have a few nagging questions that I'm sure the
work around on your switch will answer.

PS Your gonna need all those AC's when you get back to Texas,
our high was 85 degrees last weekend.

Was not being sarcastic, I really meant for you all to keep it up as I learn alot from you all.
We just came across eastern Colorado and Western Kansas. We are now in Wichita Kansas. We are going to spend a day and night milling around OK City then home on Saturday. I am tired of the wind on this trip. 45 mph head wind going to Co. 50 to 80 mph winds in Golden the entire time and a 64 mph tailwind today heading back then became crosswind once we turned south in Selena Kansas.
I will trade any weather for the wind of the last week.

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