REDDOG7571
Member
Will a 2500 hd duramax tow a 3450 big country safely?
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2500 diesel duramax
- Thread starter REDDOG7571
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danemayer
Well-known member
Hi Reddog7571,
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum.
The Big Country 3540 has a GVWR of 15,500 lbs. and you should plan on towing close to that weight by the time it's loaded up for travel. The empty design pin weight is listed at 2,200 lbs, but you should plan on it actually being about 20% of the GVWR, or around 3,100 lbs.
You didn't mention the age or any other details about the 2500 duramax, but in general, newer 2500s may be able to pull the trailer. BUT, you'll almost certainly be overloaded relative to the truck's payload spec. Most 2500s have a payload between 2,300 and 2,700 lbs. - you'll have to check the door label to find out what any particular truck can carry. That payload spec has to cover the pin weight of the trailer, weight of the hitch, bed liner, bed cover, toolbox, tools, firewood, pets, passengers and anything else you put in the truck. You could easily be 1,000 lbs. over the payload spec.
Tow it safely? Some people will say yes. Some will say no. In my view, 1,000 lbs. over the spec may unbalance the truck leading to handling problems, particularly in adverse weather and road conditions.
To get a more precise answer, I'd suggest you visit Fifth Wheel Safe Towing.
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum.
The Big Country 3540 has a GVWR of 15,500 lbs. and you should plan on towing close to that weight by the time it's loaded up for travel. The empty design pin weight is listed at 2,200 lbs, but you should plan on it actually being about 20% of the GVWR, or around 3,100 lbs.
You didn't mention the age or any other details about the 2500 duramax, but in general, newer 2500s may be able to pull the trailer. BUT, you'll almost certainly be overloaded relative to the truck's payload spec. Most 2500s have a payload between 2,300 and 2,700 lbs. - you'll have to check the door label to find out what any particular truck can carry. That payload spec has to cover the pin weight of the trailer, weight of the hitch, bed liner, bed cover, toolbox, tools, firewood, pets, passengers and anything else you put in the truck. You could easily be 1,000 lbs. over the payload spec.
Tow it safely? Some people will say yes. Some will say no. In my view, 1,000 lbs. over the spec may unbalance the truck leading to handling problems, particularly in adverse weather and road conditions.
To get a more precise answer, I'd suggest you visit Fifth Wheel Safe Towing.
jassson007
Founding Louisiana Chapter Leaders-Retired
I am just over 15k last summer with mine and pin was 3100 I believe. I also tow with a 1 ton dually.
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Miltp920
Well-known member
Based on my,resent searches, a 2015 2500 and 3500 will tow a 17300 5er. But back from 2003 to 2009, a 2500 was only rated to 14700 to 14800lbs. so at 15500, you would be over by 700 lbs before you even filled your fuel tank, or put your hitch in the back of your truck. I read they give you 10 gallons of fuel, not a full tank on your truck sticker weight. My Cyclone 3100 weighs 15680 with a golf cart in the garage, loaded to go camping. my pin weight is 3280 but I have a generator in the front of my Cyclone. My truck weighs 7700 with the hitch and a full tank of fuel, me and the dog. It adds up very quickly, so you really need to understand your numbers based on your 5er and your truck. I am currently looking to upgrade to a 2011 3500 or newer, to meet GCVWR. Based on my recent research, it looks like I could go NEW 2500. It all depends if you define "safe" as falling within all the vehicle weight ratings (plus margin) or not. AFTER I bought both my truck and then my current 5er, I got educated on the numbers. IF you are still shopping, you get to be educated before you make your purchase. You have to think about how much weight your truck puts on your rear axle and rear tires, and then add your hitch and pin weight to determine if you are exceeding your rear tire or axle weight ratings.
REDDOG7571
Member
THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT! MY TRUCK IS A 2014 MODEL. I'LL KEEP STUDYING, AND THAT MAY CHANGE MY MIND ON THE 3450... i REALLY LIKE IT THOUGH..
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
It has been stated in this forum over and over; "There is no way you can know anything unless you actually weigh your rig" I have read that pin load runs between 15 and 20% and I have heard that it runs 20 to 25%. So I understand why 20% is a good number. But my rig is running 23%. But I have a generator 2 industrial batteries and an inverter totaling 561 lbs. In the garage area the contribute 393 lbs to pin load. That is over 10% of my pin load, and that comes from that load at the garage area. My point being that rules of thumb are good, but you will never know the true story until you weigh your rig. And even then you will not know the whole truth until you weight each wheel.
Since you already own it, the 2500 will do the job. You might have to make mods. The weak point is going to be the tires. Tires are rated for continuous duty at the ratings on the sidewall. If your payload exceeds that, you will need to address that point.
Airbags that fit between the frame and differential are great for taking the load off the springs. So if you have spring problems that is the solution for that.
You can mod out of payload problems but what you CANNOT mod out of is GCVWR. Your stuck with that figure, lest you be on the side of the road with your transmission spitting hot ATF out the seals. Being over on the GCVWR is detrimental on the driveline and braking. If your rig is outside the GCVWR then you have potential braking problems if you were to lose braking capacity on the fiver.
A modern diesel powered 250/2500 is not likely to fail the GCVWR test, but it won't make the cut on the payload. It is noteworthy that the 2015 350/3500 SRW, especially the RAM trucks are capable of the payloads needed to tow the heartlands. I run airbags but I don't really need them and I'm sitting at 3600 on the pin, 200 of which is on the front axles.
Good luck
Since you already own it, the 2500 will do the job. You might have to make mods. The weak point is going to be the tires. Tires are rated for continuous duty at the ratings on the sidewall. If your payload exceeds that, you will need to address that point.
Airbags that fit between the frame and differential are great for taking the load off the springs. So if you have spring problems that is the solution for that.
You can mod out of payload problems but what you CANNOT mod out of is GCVWR. Your stuck with that figure, lest you be on the side of the road with your transmission spitting hot ATF out the seals. Being over on the GCVWR is detrimental on the driveline and braking. If your rig is outside the GCVWR then you have potential braking problems if you were to lose braking capacity on the fiver.
A modern diesel powered 250/2500 is not likely to fail the GCVWR test, but it won't make the cut on the payload. It is noteworthy that the 2015 350/3500 SRW, especially the RAM trucks are capable of the payloads needed to tow the heartlands. I run airbags but I don't really need them and I'm sitting at 3600 on the pin, 200 of which is on the front axles.
Good luck
Bohemian
Well-known member
//heartlandowners.org/showthread.ph...Truck-Payloads?p=386013&viewfull=1#post386013
Miltp920
Well-known member
Trailerlife towing guide trailer/fifth wheel (axle ratio) k=4.10 i=3.73
unfortunately it is not easy to find the GCVWR for each truck (truck plus 5er)
1 ton
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 3500 CC LB SRW 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,800 (i) looks like it would do 15,500
but not sure about pin weight on axles and as stated tire ratings.
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 3500 CC LB DRW 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 18,000/22,500 (i) no problem DRW
3/4 Ton SRW
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 2500 CC STD BED
2500 CC Std Bed 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,200 (k)
2500 CC Std Bed 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/17,400 (i)
Sierra Denali 2500 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,000 (k)
Sierra Denali 2500 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,500 (i)
2500 CC Std Bed 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,900 (k)
2500 CC Std Bed 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/15,800 (i)
Sierra Denali 2500 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,700 (k)
Sierra Denali 2500 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/14,700 (k)
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 2500 CC LONGBED
2500 CC LB 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,200 (k)
2500 CC LB 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,700
2500 CC LB 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,800
2500 CC LB 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/14,700
unfortunately it is not easy to find the GCVWR for each truck (truck plus 5er)
1 ton
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 3500 CC LB SRW 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,800 (i) looks like it would do 15,500
but not sure about pin weight on axles and as stated tire ratings.
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 3500 CC LB DRW 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 18,000/22,500 (i) no problem DRW
3/4 Ton SRW
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 2500 CC STD BED
2500 CC Std Bed 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,200 (k)
2500 CC Std Bed 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/17,400 (i)
Sierra Denali 2500 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,000 (k)
Sierra Denali 2500 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,500 (i)
2500 CC Std Bed 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,900 (k)
2500 CC Std Bed 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/15,800 (i)
Sierra Denali 2500 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,700 (k)
Sierra Denali 2500 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/14,700 (k)
2014 SILVERADO/SIERRA 2500 CC LONGBED
2500 CC LB 2WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/14,200 (k)
2500 CC LB 2WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/16,700
2500 CC LB 4WD 6.0L V-8 13,000/13,800
2500 CC LB 4WD 6.6L V-8 TD 13,000/14,700
DW_Gray
Well-known member
I disagree with you and think you may have the interpretation backwards. The gross vehicle weight rating and the gross axle weight ratings are the only two required on the certification label. Gross combination weight rating is not on the certification label for good reason. Modifications may be made to a vehicle that will increase the towing capacity. You cannot increase the gross vehicle weight rating or the gross axle weight ratings yourself. The only way to increase the certification label ratings is with a certified installer with the authority of the DOT. You can modify the engine or the transmission or even change the gear ratio to increase the GCWR. You can legally do this.
Check out the article entitled The Truth About Altering the Certification Label at http://FifthWheelSt.com.
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Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Since modern 250/2500 are well within the capability of the GCVWR required to tow most fivers, it is not an issue. My point being is that a 2500 can be modified to accommodate the pin loads of a typical Heartland fiver. Assuming you already own a 2500 and are not in position to replace it with a 350/3500. I assume that everyone already knows about the B pillar and what that data means. So no confusion on my behalf.
caissiel
Senior Member
I reduced my F250 licencing capacity so that my combined weight registrations were under 26000 Lbs. My F250 was registered for 14000lbs and no one will tell me that I have to load less then registration while my tire capacities are above 14000lbs. Which is the only criteria in my province is to load to the safe tire capacity. Ford state a capacity because if more load the driveline will not line up and vibration will occur. One more ply of springs brings it to DRW capacity with much more front tire capacity. The remaining safety parts are the same.
Therefore the medium load an RV 5th wheel loads on the truck is nothing compared to most industrial HD application.
Therefore the medium load an RV 5th wheel loads on the truck is nothing compared to most industrial HD application.
REDDOG7571
Member
Jim,
Thanks for your information. I checked my door panel and my GVWR is 10000 Lbs, my GAWR Ft is 5200 Lbs, and my GAWR RR is 6200 Lbs. So, your 2013 Ram Turbo Diesel is handling a BC 3650RL, right? Isn't that larger than the BC 3450? How pricey was the air bags? My problem is that I want to make sure that my family is safe. I've pulled plenty of large boats, but zero 5th wheels, or Travel trailers. I want to feel safe running from Ohio to Florida and back, plus if we want to go out West I want to feel comfortable doing that too.
Thanks for your information. I checked my door panel and my GVWR is 10000 Lbs, my GAWR Ft is 5200 Lbs, and my GAWR RR is 6200 Lbs. So, your 2013 Ram Turbo Diesel is handling a BC 3650RL, right? Isn't that larger than the BC 3450? How pricey was the air bags? My problem is that I want to make sure that my family is safe. I've pulled plenty of large boats, but zero 5th wheels, or Travel trailers. I want to feel safe running from Ohio to Florida and back, plus if we want to go out West I want to feel comfortable doing that too.
REDDOG7571
Member
Did you ever have trouble with the brakes stopping the unit, or your transmission overheating? What type tires did you run on your truck, an ddid you add air bags?
I have towed a BH 3585 with a GMC 2500 for a lot of miles. Right or wrong that's all the truck I had to work with.
I did add air bags, bigger tires and a Banks Speed Brake. I have disk brakes on the BH.
I always felt good about that combination. It handled well and didn't present any mechanical issues.
The motor, transmission and rear axle is the same as the 3500.
But I now have a RAM 3500 DRW and will say that the minute I left the driveway I could tell the difference.
So if you have a 2500 those are a few things to think about.
Peace
Dave
I did add air bags, bigger tires and a Banks Speed Brake. I have disk brakes on the BH.
I always felt good about that combination. It handled well and didn't present any mechanical issues.
The motor, transmission and rear axle is the same as the 3500.
But I now have a RAM 3500 DRW and will say that the minute I left the driveway I could tell the difference.
So if you have a 2500 those are a few things to think about.
Peace
Dave
DW_Gray
Well-known member
Just a little reminder about correct usage of most air bags. Most air bags and made for leveling in a vehicle that is not overloaded. They are not designed to increase the load ratings.
Here is a direct quote from Firestone/Ride-Rite: "Please remember that air springs do not increase the load carrying capacity of your vehicle. *DO NOT EXCEED THE VEHICLE'S RECOMMENDED GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR)"
Here is a direct quote from Firestone/Ride-Rite: "Please remember that air springs do not increase the load carrying capacity of your vehicle. *DO NOT EXCEED THE VEHICLE'S RECOMMENDED GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR)"
Miltp920
Well-known member
Reminder..OP said his truck is a 2014. The GM tow ratings went up in 2015, do they do not apply to OPs post unless he wants to go buy a 2015 GM. RAM has been rated to tow more than GM for years. RAM 2500 does not equal GM2500 does not equal F250 (all of the same year). OP needs to decide if "safe" means legal by all the manufacturer weight ratings or "can my truck tow it". I have read in these threads that those who realized that their 2500 was overwieght, upgraded (or wished they could) to a 3500 when they could afford to do so. That is where I am. I am shopping for a 3500. My GM2500 has pulled my 15,500lb 5er, without issue to date. But before I go cross country, or through the mountains, I will have a 3500 rated by the manufacture to do so. Will your truck pull it, yes...mine does too. Should your truck pull it, that is the question you have to answer for yourself.
