50 AMP RV Electrical Service Discussion
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mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
It's single phase 110v 2 times. That's like saying a dual 110v outlet is 220v. It doesn't work like that. Reason is because both legs can be pulled from the same buss in a breaker panel to wire up a 50amp RV circuit. You can't pull both legs off of a single 110v buss to make actual 220v outlet.
It's single phase 110v 2 times. That's like saying a dual 110v outlet is 220v. It doesn't work like that. Reason is because both legs can be pulled from the same buss in a breaker panel to wire up a 50amp RV circuit. You can't pull both legs off of a single 110v buss to make actual 220v outlet.
taken
Well-known member
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
That's what I thought too, but was proven wrong on another forum. An RV 50 amp outlet is the same as a 220v 50 amp household outlet for your range etc. Both phases are sent to the rv and it splits them up into different 110v circuits just like your house panel does when 220v comes in. Take your voltage tester to any campground with a 50 amp plug and you will find 220v, not 110. Look at the link I posted. It explains it in detail. Bottom line is an RV 50 amp outlet is a 220v outlet utilizing both phases. Since nothing in most rv's use 220, it gets split up and one phase powers half the circuits and the other powers the rest.
That's what I thought too, but was proven wrong on another forum. An RV 50 amp outlet is the same as a 220v 50 amp household outlet for your range etc. Both phases are sent to the rv and it splits them up into different 110v circuits just like your house panel does when 220v comes in. Take your voltage tester to any campground with a 50 amp plug and you will find 220v, not 110. Look at the link I posted. It explains it in detail. Bottom line is an RV 50 amp outlet is a 220v outlet utilizing both phases. Since nothing in most rv's use 220, it gets split up and one phase powers half the circuits and the other powers the rest.
scottyb
Well-known member
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
Yes, you can pull both legs off the same phase but it would be wrong and potentially dangerous. You should always meter 220V across the two hot legs or you shouldn't connect to the source.
Yes, you can pull both legs off the same phase but it would be wrong and potentially dangerous. You should always meter 220V across the two hot legs or you shouldn't connect to the source.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
In simple terms you are incorrect. The only reason you see 220 in all RV 50 amp services is because you are putting one lead of the meter in the incorrect position. You are reading the 110v leg off of each service. If what you said was true the 50amp service plug would be a 3 pin plug.
There is 4 pins because there are two completely separate single phase 110v services. It does not come into the RV as 220v. It comes in as two separate 110v service, you don't add the voltage.
This is why you can buy a 30amp to 50amp adapter to run a 50amp RV on a 30 amp service. Usually the only thing that is effected by this is your 2nd a/c as you won't be able to run it on a 30 amp service as the the 2nd 110 service found in the 50 amp plug is not there.
Sadly your RV does not accept 220v. If you have a plug at your house wired for 220v this is why you are burning your electronics.
In simple terms you are incorrect. The only reason you see 220 in all RV 50 amp services is because you are putting one lead of the meter in the incorrect position. You are reading the 110v leg off of each service. If what you said was true the 50amp service plug would be a 3 pin plug.
There is 4 pins because there are two completely separate single phase 110v services. It does not come into the RV as 220v. It comes in as two separate 110v service, you don't add the voltage.
This is why you can buy a 30amp to 50amp adapter to run a 50amp RV on a 30 amp service. Usually the only thing that is effected by this is your 2nd a/c as you won't be able to run it on a 30 amp service as the the 2nd 110 service found in the 50 amp plug is not there.
Sadly your RV does not accept 220v. If you have a plug at your house wired for 220v this is why you are burning your electronics.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
For an RV 50 amp service. Each 110 leg can be pulled from the same buss as long as that buss is rated for the total amperage. As RV's aren't wired for 220v. They are either wired for a single 30amp 110v or dual 110v services at 50amps. If they were 220v the plug would only be 3 pins and not 4pins.
For running single phase 220v each leg must come from separate busses. But that has nothing to do with RV's.
For an RV 50 amp service. Each 110 leg can be pulled from the same buss as long as that buss is rated for the total amperage. As RV's aren't wired for 220v. They are either wired for a single 30amp 110v or dual 110v services at 50amps. If they were 220v the plug would only be 3 pins and not 4pins.
For running single phase 220v each leg must come from separate busses. But that has nothing to do with RV's.
Ray LeTourneau
Senior Member - Past Moderator
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
First, I'm not a licensed electrician nor am I an expert. I have wired a few garages with 100 amp 220 service. I've used it for welders and shop equipment. Lighting and outlets. I do believe what we have in our 50 amp RV service can be referred to as 220 volts. I may be confused but the attached pdf is pretty clear to me.
First, I'm not a licensed electrician nor am I an expert. I have wired a few garages with 100 amp 220 service. I've used it for welders and shop equipment. Lighting and outlets. I do believe what we have in our 50 amp RV service can be referred to as 220 volts. I may be confused but the attached pdf is pretty clear to me.
caissiel
Senior Member
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
There are many dangerous assomtions here and only one is right.
Our 50 amp connections are exactly like a stove connection requiring a 4 wire conductor. DO NOT CONNECCT TO SAME PHASE ON BOTH LINE. IT WILL OVERLOAD THE NEUTRAL
A stove uses all 110v top elements for safety same as RVs do.. 2 lines at 50amps is equal to 100 amps total load to the unit. If feed on one side the neutral will fail because it will take total load instead opposing canceling load. And this is how a red, black, white, green wire connected properly works.
Sent from my SPH-M910 using Tapatalk 2
There are many dangerous assomtions here and only one is right.
Our 50 amp connections are exactly like a stove connection requiring a 4 wire conductor. DO NOT CONNECCT TO SAME PHASE ON BOTH LINE. IT WILL OVERLOAD THE NEUTRAL
A stove uses all 110v top elements for safety same as RVs do.. 2 lines at 50amps is equal to 100 amps total load to the unit. If feed on one side the neutral will fail because it will take total load instead opposing canceling load. And this is how a red, black, white, green wire connected properly works.
Sent from my SPH-M910 using Tapatalk 2
taken
Well-known member
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
mattpopp brother, you are wrong. You can't test a single phase 50 amp outlet as 220v across the two hots. If you probed across the two hots you would get continuity not 220v if it was wired on the same phase. I don't know how many times I can say this. An RV 50 amp outlets at a campground or one you can wire at home is 220V. Period. It's not a special RV version that is 50 amp 110v. Since everyone seems too lazy to click the link I posted explaining it, I'll copy and past it here:
The half round or U is the ground the one directly below it is the WHITE or neutral and the other two black wires are 180 degrees out of phase with each other are the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have TWO 120 volt split service going into your RV.
Installing the 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4 wire grounding Service
DO NOT CONFUSE the 50-amp 4 wire 120/240-volt (14-50R) Service with the OLD APPLIANCE 50-
amp (10-50R) 3 wire 120/240-volt service.
The 50-amp service has 4 wires with two 120-volt HOT feeds. It is a misconception that the 50-amp RV
service is something special. This service is a STANDARD 120/240 50-amp 3 pole with 4 prongs used for
numerous applications.
Parts needed to install.
1 DOUBLE POLE 50-amp 120/240-volt Breaker
1 14-50 Receptacle and
2 (HOT), 1 White (Neutral) and 1 Ground Correctly sized wire
Plugs and Receptacles are available at Lowe's, Home Depot, Camping World and Electric Supply
houses.
14-50R 3 pole 4 wire grounding
receptacle
The half round or U is the ground the one
directly below it is the WHITE or neutral
and the other two black wires are 180
degrees out of phase with each other are
the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have
TWO 120 volt split service going into your
RV
X & Y are interchangeable, red and black (or 2 black) wires are hot (live) wires, one wire on the X, and
the other on the Y. The neutral (white) and the bare ground wire MUST be on their designated
connection.
14-50R
It is crucial that ALL NEW installations be checked with a volt meter. The voltage
between X and Y should be 240-Volt, X and W 120-Volt, Y and W 120-Volt, X and G
120-volt, Y and G 120-volt, W and G 0-Volt. Always check ALL outlets
before plugging in the first time. From this common service we can draw 12,000 watts.
RECOMMENDED wire sizes for 50-amp: 25 feet - #8, 50 feet - # 6 and 100 feet - #4. You may get along
fine with longer runs.
And by the way, every time you go to a campground with a real 50 amp plug, you are plugging into 220v. Bring your multimeter and test it. People get confused as an older style 30 amp style can be wired both 220v or 110v as it's a three wire like for your dryer. This is the kind that will fry a trailer if wired for 220v and not 110v. As for 50 amp, there is only one way to wire it for ANY application and that's 220v. Oh, and I have this very outlet installed at my home. It's 220v and I plug in all the time. No frying because it's correct...
mattpopp brother, you are wrong. You can't test a single phase 50 amp outlet as 220v across the two hots. If you probed across the two hots you would get continuity not 220v if it was wired on the same phase. I don't know how many times I can say this. An RV 50 amp outlets at a campground or one you can wire at home is 220V. Period. It's not a special RV version that is 50 amp 110v. Since everyone seems too lazy to click the link I posted explaining it, I'll copy and past it here:
The 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4 wire grounding Service
This 50-amp service has 4 wires with two 120-volt HOT feeds. It is a misconception that this 50-amp RV service is something special. This service is a STANDARD 120/240 50-amp 3 pole with 4 prongs used for numerous applications.
| From this common service we can draw 120 or 240 volts. Each leg is 50 amps @ 120 volts. 50-amp X 120-volt = 6000 watts. But since there are 2 HOT 120-volt legs at 6000 + 6000 = 12,000 watts to use in the RV or 50-amp X 240-volt = 12,000 watts when used as a 240-volt service. Almost ALL 50-amp wired RV's use both sides of the service separately as 120 volt on each leg. Only a few mostly high-end coaches utilize the 240-volt from this same service. The 50-amp 3-pole 4-wire service is superior to the 30-amp service because of the total amperage available. 30-amp 120-volt service = 3,600 watts 50-amp 120/240-volt service = 12,000 watts |
Installing the 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4 wire grounding Service
DO NOT CONFUSE the 50-amp 4 wire 120/240-volt (14-50R) Service with the OLD APPLIANCE 50-
amp (10-50R) 3 wire 120/240-volt service.
The 50-amp service has 4 wires with two 120-volt HOT feeds. It is a misconception that the 50-amp RV
service is something special. This service is a STANDARD 120/240 50-amp 3 pole with 4 prongs used for
numerous applications.
Parts needed to install.
1 DOUBLE POLE 50-amp 120/240-volt Breaker
1 14-50 Receptacle and
2 (HOT), 1 White (Neutral) and 1 Ground Correctly sized wire
Plugs and Receptacles are available at Lowe's, Home Depot, Camping World and Electric Supply
houses.
14-50R 3 pole 4 wire grounding
receptacle
The half round or U is the ground the one
directly below it is the WHITE or neutral
and the other two black wires are 180
degrees out of phase with each other are
the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have
TWO 120 volt split service going into your
RV
X & Y are interchangeable, red and black (or 2 black) wires are hot (live) wires, one wire on the X, and
the other on the Y. The neutral (white) and the bare ground wire MUST be on their designated
connection.
14-50R
It is crucial that ALL NEW installations be checked with a volt meter. The voltage
between X and Y should be 240-Volt, X and W 120-Volt, Y and W 120-Volt, X and G
120-volt, Y and G 120-volt, W and G 0-Volt. Always check ALL outlets
before plugging in the first time. From this common service we can draw 12,000 watts.
RECOMMENDED wire sizes for 50-amp: 25 feet - #8, 50 feet - # 6 and 100 feet - #4. You may get along
fine with longer runs.
And by the way, every time you go to a campground with a real 50 amp plug, you are plugging into 220v. Bring your multimeter and test it. People get confused as an older style 30 amp style can be wired both 220v or 110v as it's a three wire like for your dryer. This is the kind that will fry a trailer if wired for 220v and not 110v. As for 50 amp, there is only one way to wire it for ANY application and that's 220v. Oh, and I have this very outlet installed at my home. It's 220v and I plug in all the time. No frying because it's correct...
Last edited:
scottyb
Well-known member
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
It's not the bus that's the problem. It's the neutral that can be overloaded if both legs come from the same bus.
It's not the bus that's the problem. It's the neutral that can be overloaded if both legs come from the same bus.
Re: Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund!!!
As the OP has not really come back to give us a full root cause analysis, I think it's fair to rename this thread relative to RV wiring.
On edit:
- Thread renamed to: 50 AMP RV Electrical Service Discussion
- Thread moved to: Electrical - For all Heartland - 120 volt AC forum
Note: Thread replies titles were NOT changed. This means search engines will index this discussion and anyone can still find the match to "Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund" and it will point here.
As the OP has not really come back to give us a full root cause analysis, I think it's fair to rename this thread relative to RV wiring.
On edit:
- Thread renamed to: 50 AMP RV Electrical Service Discussion
- Thread moved to: Electrical - For all Heartland - 120 volt AC forum
Note: Thread replies titles were NOT changed. This means search engines will index this discussion and anyone can still find the match to "Lemon Road Warrior 415 I want a refund" and it will point here.
Looks like a good turn in the road, but you have to change the subjectso it doesn't keep perpetuating
I don't want to take the time to edit 34 replies to edit the subject. Plus, I want to keep the original subject line searchable.
Your reply used the new thread title. I think if you Quote a reply that uses the original subject, then the original subject will repeat - but only then.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
Just trying to keep ya on your toes
Don't do that! The mental picture of Jim B. in a tutu and ballerina shoes is just too much. I think I'm gonna wash my brain out with soap.
