5th Wheel Pin Weights and Truck Payloads

[Bohemian]

One of the common questions on any RV board is the "can I tow it" question. Here is a brief summary of information on 5th wheel pin weights and pickup truck payloads.



5th Wheel Trailer Towing and Vehicle Payload Specifications – 9/26/2014

The only specifications that matter are the actual specifications for the actual truck and the actual trailer you use as they are actually loaded.

This focuses on “payload” because it is the most overlooked and often exceeded aspect of 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel towing specifications.


http://fifthwheelst.com/

http://fifthwheelst.com/2015-half-ton-truck-towing.html

http://fifthwheelst.com/2015-three-quarter-ton-truck-towing.html

http://rvtowcheck.com/

Cost of new diesel truck over cost of equivalent gas truck: ~~$9,000.00-$12,000.00

Cost of new DRW over equivalent SRW: ~~$1,300.0.

Cost of new 350/3500 over equivalent 250/2500: ~~ $1,000.00

Heartland Landmark GVWR range about 17,500 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Big Horn GVWR range from about 15,500-16,000 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Big Country GVWR range about 15,500 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Gateway GVWR range from about 14,000-15,500 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Oakmont GVWR range about 15,500 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Silverado GVWR range from about 15,000-15,500 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Elkridge GVWR range from about 10,000-12,000 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Sundance GVWR range about 14,000 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Cyclone GVWR range from about 14,000-20,000 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Road Warrior GVWR range from about 14,000-18,000 lbs. GVWR
Heartland Torque GVWR range from about 13,000-18,000 lbs. GVWR

http://www.heartlandrvs.com/

Pin weights should be 20-25% of actual total 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel trailer weight to keep good stability

Thus:

5[SUP]th[/SUP] Wheel Trailers

10,000 GVWR yields 2,000-2,500 lbs. max pin weight
12,000 GVWR yields 2,400-3,000 lbs. max pin weight
14,000 GVWR yields 2,800-3,500 lbs. max pin weight
16,000 GVWR yields 3,200-4,000 lbs. max pin weight
18,000 GVWR yields 3,600-4,500 lbs. max pin weight
20,000 GVWR yields 4,000-5,000 lbs. max pin weight

You will probably run your 5[SUP]th[/SUP]wheel trailer closer to the GVWR. Pin weight depends on total weight of the 5th heel trailer as loaded and distributed within the trailer.
The factory pin weight is meaningless after loading the trailer. You will definitely NOT run your trailer anywhere near the factory delivered weight, or pin weight.
Only you know your actual trailer weight and actual pin weight.

Pin weight is only one of many components that add to the truck payload. All need to be considered.

Most 5th wheel hitches weigh between 250-500 lbs. including the frame mounting components., some more.



Pickup Trucks Max Payloads

A 1/2 ton 1500/150 pickup typically has at most 1,000-1,500 lbs. max payload
A 3/4 ton 2500/250 SRW pickup typically has at most 2,000-3,200 lbs. max payload
A 1 ton 3500/350 SRW pickup typically has at most 3,000-4,400 lbs. max payload
A 1 ton 3500/350 DRW (dually) pickup typically has at most 5,000-5,600 lbs. max payload

Currently, about 7,400 lbs is the maximum max payload available in a 1 ton pickup truck. These super payload pickup trucks are regular cab long box 4x2 dually gas motor models with a low level trim package and with no options.

Payload includes not only the pin weight of the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel trailer and the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel hitch but also includes anything loaded into the towing pickup truck reducing the amount available to the 5th wheel trailer

.............................people, tools, bed covers, bedliners, any truck modifications, air bags, toys, dogs, cats, snacks, etc.

You get an allocation of 150 lbs. for the driver, anything above 150 lbs. is part of the payload.
A full tank of fuel (standard manufacturer installed tank) is also allocated as not part of the max payload. Increases in fuel capacity as part of a factory option are part of he payload.

Note also, the max payloads published by the manufactures will be reduced by the weight of options added to the truck by the manufacturer which include the trim level options. This will be reflected on the manufacturer’s sticker on the individual truck.

If you are over on any one of the individual maximum specifications, your truck is overweight.
GVWR, GAWR-F, GAWR-R, GCWR-R, Maximum Payload




Commentary


Anecdotes vs science and technology. The meaning of statistics and safety. Probabilities.

Say there is a product where only 1 in 1000 people will ever die using it over 10 years. Ask a random person and 999 out of 1000 times they will say that the product is perfectly safe. Meanwhile a statistician will tell you that 30,000 people a year in the U.S. die from using the product.

Improve the product so only 1 in 1,000,000 people die and the statistician will tell you 30 people a year die from using the product.

We all roll the dice. It's just a matter choosing your bet. The long shot or the favorite.

Will your truck be easy to drive and safe? Will it stay that way in an emergency or under difficult conditions? The greatest danger is that the overweight truck feels stabile and comfortable then reveal it's instability just when you need it most. Only a fool would drive a truck that feels unstable.

That is what towing specs and regulations are about.

Resources:

2015 Ram 1500 Specifications
2015 Ram 2500 Specifications
2015 Ram 3500 Specifications
2014 Ram 1500 Specifications
2014 Ram 2500 Specifications
2014 Ram 3500 Specifications
2013 Ram 1500 Specifications
2013 Ram 2500 Specifications
2013 Ram 3500 Specifications
Dodge Ram Towing Guide, 2002-2009

2015 Ford HD Specifications
2014 Ford HD Specifications
2013 Ford HD Specifications
2015 Ford F150 Specifications
2014 Ford F150 Specifications
2013 Ford F150 Specifications

2015 Chevy Silverado HD Specifications


http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-how-to/trailer-towing-tips/half-ton-towing-fact-or-fiction/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks2tio91gu4

http://rvingwithmarkpolk.com/2015/02/13/tow-vehicle-rating-facts-myths/

http://rvsafety.com/weighing/weighing-schedule

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.ph...Specifications?p=410726&viewfull=1#post410726

Bohemian 9/26/2014 ©
Bohemian 3/6/2015 ©

 

[MTPockets]

This is a good chart; Only if people actually pay attention..... The only comment is regarding the 3500/350 SRW .... Max is closer to 3500 - 4100 max.... (At least this is what the 2015 Ford spec shows) And a P.S...... Owners must subtract from the truck payload number the weight of passengers, hitch weight, fuel, any other cargo. This alone can reduce the trucks posted payload by over 600 lbs...

 

[DW_Gray]

Kudos to you!

I see you put a lot of work into putting this excellent information together. Thank you for providing this info.

 

[Bohemian]

Wow, I didn't know 3500 payloads could go that low. I edited the table to reflect your statement. I( even saw one configuration of 3,000 lbs.

This is a good chart; Only if people actually pay attention..... The only comment is regarding the 3500/350 SRW .... Max is closer to 3500 - 4100 max.... (At least this is what the 2015 Ford spec shows) And a P.S...... Owners must subtract from the truck payload number the weight of passengers, hitch weight, fuel, any other cargo. This alone can reduce the trucks posted payload by over 600 lbs...

 

[SeattleLion]

The other thing you need to consider is that the actual load on the truck will exceed the pin weight by several hundred pounds. We measured the pin weight, truck weight, and trailer wheel weights. The pin weight for our Bighorn (loaded) is about 2300 lbs. However on the CAT scale, the actual weight of truck with the trailer attached is 2600 lbs heavier. Not all of the weight of the trailer goes to the rear wheels. Our truck (2014 F350 SRW, crew cab, short bed) has a load rating of 3,500 lbs. We are within 150 lbs of that with us, the dog and stuff in the truck and the trailer attached. The loaded weight of the trailer is 13,300 lbs.

 

[branson4020]

The other thing you need to consider is that the actual load on the truck will exceed the pin weight by several hundred pounds. We measured the pin weight, truck weight, and trailer wheel weights. The pin weight for our Bighorn (loaded) is about 2300 lbs. However on the CAT scale, the actual weight of truck with the trailer attached is 2600 lbs heavier. Not all of the weight of the trailer goes to the rear wheels. Our truck (2014 F350 SRW, crew cab, short bed) has a load rating of 3,500 lbs. We are within 150 lbs of that with us, the dog and stuff in the truck and the trailer attached. The loaded weight of the trailer is 13,300 lbs.

If the truck weight increases 2600 lbs when you hook up the trailer, I would call that 2600 lb pin weight.

 

[Bohemian]

If the truck weight increases 2600 lbs when you hook up the trailer, I would call that 2600 lb pin weight.

Correct

 

[mobilcastle]

Good info on this post.

 

[Bohemian]

Updated with links to references and Tow Charts for Ram Trucks


//heartlandowners.org/showthread.ph...Truck-Payloads?p=386013&viewfull=1#post386013

 

[BouseBill]

Darn, I feel like ya snubbed us F-450 drivers
Good information, wish more folks would understand it.

 

[Bohemian]

Darn, I feel like ya snubbed us F-450 drivers
Good information, wish more folks would understand it.

You find the specs and I will add them.

 

[BouseBill]

You did see the two? Just being me, a good job indeed as already mentioned. Being fulltimers we have seen it all during our travels. I'm a firm believer in having more truck than one actually needs. Just wish I had75K sitting in my pocket, afraid it would go on a new F-450 though LOL

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1412_2015_ford_f_450_super_duty_platinum_first_test/

 

[Bohemian]

You did see the two? Just being me, a good job indeed as already mentioned. Being fulltimers we have seen it all during our travels. I'm a firm believer in having more truck than one actually needs. Just wish I had75K sitting in my pocket, afraid it would go on a new F-450 though LOL

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1412_2015_ford_f_450_super_duty_platinum_first_test/

Yes, I saw them. LOL No foul. Still???

 

[Bohemian]

Ford Specs added

 

[JohnD]

Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Back in August of 2014, I switched from a Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 to a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD SRW.

Now, I don't have a 5th-wheel trailer, so I didn't need to go the extra mile for the 3500, but still our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner was more than what our current truck at the time (1996 Dodge Ram - I loved that truck and hated to give it up) could handle.

Despite the fact that our dealer did, in fact, tell us that our truck was more than enough to handle our new travel trailer.

Matter of fact, on our way home from the dealership the very day we bought our trailer, I got a sign from the powers above when my oil light came on during the 20 mile drive from the dealership to our house!

Now, if I were just pulling it around to local camp grounds around here on the flat lands, then yes . . . not that big of an issue.

Leave all tanks empty, don't overload the trailer or the back of the truck with a bunch of unneeded kRap, and all will be OK . . . right?

But . . . we live less than 20 miles from the Rocky Mountains . . . so guess where our camping destination usually resides???

Yup, up in those wonderful Rocky Mountains!

My poor old beloved Dodge Ram would sweat and spit all the way up . . . and then coming down was typically an event that would push the limits of my high blood pressure meds and break the skin on my knuckles!

Not too mention that you never know what the other people who are on the road will do in front of you when pulling a trailer . . .

Seems that a truck and trailer combo always attracts those dumb@$$e$ that are always in a big hurry to get nowhere fast . . . and will pull any Evil Kinevil stunt to get there before you do!

Anywayz . . . we had several close calls that always made me aware . . . but then we had our big scare . . . that one moment where we thought it was all over!

When I finally stopped . . . we were less than 10 feet from the back of another travel trailer in a cloud of black tire smoke after coming around a blind curve down a mountain road when I found the truck-trailer that was in front of me stopped dead in the road waiting for a car to make a left turn into a driveway . . . and it had just started raining less than 5 minutes before!

Now, this was one of the roads that was destroyed by the Colorado floods of September, 2013 and was still a construction zone, so I couldn't pull over and get my wits until about 15 miles down the road . . . at least I didn't have to change my briefs!

We decided right then and there that it was time to get a new, bigger and better truck!

Two weeks later . . . a brand new 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD entered our lives!

And what a difference it makes!

Our new truck pulls our trailer like it isn't even hitched up . . . and stopping with the trailer in tow is no more difficult than driving a small car!

I can't even tell the trailer is back there now . . .

I used to always be worrying and sweating the whole drive to wherever we were going with the trailer in tow . . . but now, I'm as calm as anyone could be!

Always get more truck than not enough truck . . .

And whatever you do . . . don't listen to your RV dealer when they tell you that your current truck is more than enough!

Because they will tell you anything to get your signature on the dotted line . . .

Old truck and new truck photos . . .



By the by . . . the fact that both trucks are the same color are purely coincidence . . . the new truck was the one on the dealers lot that fit my bill!

And, the old Dodge is now living a new life in Rochester, New York!

And most probably the best looking 1996 Dodge Ram 1500 out there since salt is not used much on the roads here in Colorado in the winter!

 

[BouseBill]

Re: Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Not to hijack the thread but, Nice looking Dodge John, I was always Dodge guy until the 5th wheels the boss bought started outgrowing their capabilities, We have had both 2500s and a SRW 3500, I could not find a good used Ram MDT Hence the F-450

Nice looking Chevy also ++

 

[JohnD]

Re: Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Not to hijack the thread but, Nice looking Dodge John, I was always Dodge guy until the 5th wheels the boss bought started outgrowing their capabilities, We have had both 2500s and a SRW 3500, I could not find a good used Ram MDT Hence the F-450

Nice looking Chevy also ++

I do miss that old Dodge . . . never thought I'd ever get rid of it!

I've owned almost 40 vehicles during my life of driving, and that truck was my favorite out of every single one of them!

But at least it has a new life in New York State!

It had 164,000 miles on it when I sold it, and was almost completely original as far as parts are concerned!

 

[Speedy]

Re: Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Since workamping at the RV dealership/campground we stay at I see firsthand people shopping for 5ers and telling me their F150/1500 can tow the 12500 lb. we are standing front of. I explain that it can pull it, but not tow it and I get the most odd looks. At least the owner of the dealership knows I know numbers and how to calculate the customer's actual towing capacity.

It's really too bad that more people would do this research prior to buying a truck, would save them in the long run. One other note/observation is that when a customer pulls in the lot with a 250/2500 or 350/3500 they are already 5er owners looking to upgrade. Where as most 150/1500 owners that come in are new to RVs or are interested in getting something bigger. It really turns them off when even the "1/2 towable" are too heavy for their truck.

 

[avvidclif]

Re: Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Speedy, can you put this in English???

"I explain that it can pull I but not to it and I get the most odd looks."

 

[JohnD]

Re: Bigger is always better . . . yeah . . . right!

Speedy, can you put this in English???

"I explain that it can pull I but not to it and I get the most odd looks." ???

Exactly . . . ! ???