Adding heating pads to tanks/water lines

[TravelTiger]

We are getting ready to add a heating pad and some pipe heaters.

We have three 15 amp fuses available, so we are good for adding up to 45 amps of draw. Each pad has a red and white wire. The diagram has the red going to the fuse, then to the switch, then to "power source". Huh? My second question is about the white wire. Where does this go? The diagram says to "ground". In basement of the rig, I see numerous white wires going to a bank, then an large white wire going somewhere else... I just want to make sure we're hooking everything up right. Also the switches need a white wire to ground, as well...It's just too vague! Help!

E

 

[caissiel]

For 120 Volts, If you follow all the wires going to the fuse box every red or black wire is accompanied by a white wire that will be connected to the grounding bar.
Now if you are talking 12 volt DC the ground wire can be attached to the frame.

 

[TravelTiger]

Thanks, to clarify these are DC only pads.

 

[branson4020]

Battery->fuse->switch red, switch white->heating pad red, heating pad white->ground buss.

 

[ankie3467]

I will be interested to see how you like the pads. We are also looking into these. Were they easy to install?

 

[RollingHome]

WOW ! 45 AMPS of draw on a 12 volt system ! WOW, where are you getting all that power or current ? Is it from the converter or the battery ? That is a lot of power.

 

[hoefler]

Is your convertor big enough???

 

[TravelTiger]

WOW ! 45 AMPS of draw on a 12 volt system ! WOW, where are you getting all that power or current ? Is it from the converter or the battery ? That is a lot of power.

Uh, Ok, sarcasm is lost on me, I obviously need help. We have three 15 amp fuse locations that are unused. We bought a tank pad that uses 11.8 amps. We bought a half-dozen pipe heaters that draw 2.3 amps each. Am I wrong to think we can add these?

We have not installed them, and no, I doubt it will be easy.

E

 

[branson4020]

Those unused fuses are just spares. You can put any size fuses you want in the holder. How are you going to wire the heaters? Do you want them all on one circuit so that they are all controlled by a single switch? In that case you'll need to install a larger fuse. 6 * 2.3 + 11.8 = 25.6A, you'll need at least a 30A fuse. 25A is a substantial load. Not a problem if you are plugged in to shore power or you have a generator, but it would drain a single group 27 12V battery in a couple of hours.

 

[hoefler]

I would go with dual voltage heating pads. While on shore power, they would run on 110 volts. Even if you don't have enough capacity left in your 30 amp service, you can rig up a second power inlet to run the pads from a heavy extension cord ( 10 gauge min. ) to the pedestal.

 

[RollingHome]

Tony, I wasn't being sarcastic... I thought you were going to apply a 45 amp load to your 12 volt DC system and I doubted it would support it. The wire size and expense would have been a zinger too. Heaters can and do use lots of amperage because they are basically a short circuit. Here's a rule of thumb: amperage goes up when voltage goes down, the higher the amperage the larger wire needed. The bigger the wire the bigger the $$$ spent. Going with dual voltage as suggested may be the way to go. However, if they use 12 VDC they will still require larger wire then if used on AC only so the $$$ savings is lost. 120 Volts AC heaters will use less amperage and require smaller wire. If your heaters are 12 volt DC only, I would suggest you return them and get dual voltage or 120 VAC only.

 

[branson4020]

I would go with dual voltage heating pads. While on shore power, they would run on 110 volts. Even if you don't have enough capacity left in your 30 amp service, you can rig up a second power inlet to run the pads from a heavy extension cord ( 10 gauge min. ) to the pedestal.

Even with 30A shore power, those heating pads will be using less than 10% of his capacity. Shore power = 3600W. Heating pads = 300W.

 

[DougS]

This brings up a question, does anyone know what the factory heated tank option consists of? Does it included the fresh water holding tank?

 

[caissiel]

I get my unit exposed to the cold every fall and spring and I don't see the need for the tank heaters. Most of the problems and freezing will happen at the valves and they are protected by the heating of the basement with the furnace. We leave late in the fall with water in the tanks. The way I see it, its like heating the elefant while the mouse will freeze first.
Sewer water will not freeze and our fresh water tank never froze but the drain had to be protected, So I now have an access to get to the drain valve hidden in the heated compartment.
These heating pads are the last thing I would put on my unit because they will not protect the important valves and our units are good to 0F and that has satisfied my needs because if water is in the tanks then heat is required in the unit to keep everything from freezing. This unit has been the best for us while traveling and living in the cold.

I did have a remote thermostat in the basement and so far it never went less then 32F, so I installed it in the none heated area to read the outside temperatures. So I know when to remove the outside lines to protect them from freezing. I never heated the hoses neither because its gambling with cold.

 

[TravelTiger]

Thanks for the replies... It's Erika asking the questions, and I know "zero" about electricity. Chatted with Cookie last night and I feel better. We don't have a spare outlet for AC hookup, and I don't feel comfortable running an extension cord out to the pole. We are doing this upgrade because, our standard "underbelly heat" + additional heat in the basement was not effective as keeping us "unfrozen" last year. We are preparing for temps below freezing 24-7, and possibly below zero, as we'll be in Breckenridge, CO this December. Better to have heat in places that need it, than not. We will run the tank heater off one fuse, half the pipe heaters on another, the other half on another. We believe our biggest issue is the pipes to the kitchen that run along the frame. We plan to insulate all the pipes we can see, and better direct our heat in the underbelly. (Not sure it was even getting down there correctly to begin with. That's another story!) We are also removing the low-point drains and repositioning/protecting the fresh water drain.

Erika

 

[RollingHome]

Erika, When you and Tony get to putting the heat tape (trace) on your pipes it's important you DO NOT cross the tape over itself unless you use (expensive) self regulating heat tape. If you cross the big box store tapes (double it up) it will create a "hot spot" and burn out (as in destroy) the tape. If you use self regulating heat trace tape try to purchase Chromalox or Raychem brands becausde they are better then some other brands. You wil NOT find self regulating heat trace tape in the big box stores. Do a GOOGLE search for suppliers. I also think Caissel gave some sage advice. Being from Canada, he knows what cold is.

 

[ankie3467]

We just came home from Elk hunting, Temp got down to 13 above and we had freezing tanks and pipes. We had about a 1/3 of a tank of fresh water freeze and pipes to kitchen sink freeze. Bathroom sink water was fine, hubby had turned valve for winterizing-used hose from a five gallon jug and pumped to bathroom but kitchen pipes were froze. We know what cold is here in MT and our Elkridge is not so equiped. Our Nash TT was perfect for elk hunting! We will be doing some modifications before next season for sure!

 

[branson4020]

Erika, When you and Tony get to putting the heat tape (trace) on your pipes it's important you DO NOT cross the tape over itself unless you use (expensive) self regulating heat tape. If you cross the big box store tapes (double it up) it will create a "hot spot" and burn out (as in destroy) the tape. If you use self regulating heat trace tape try to purchase Chromalox or Raychem brands becausde they are better then some other brands. You wil NOT find self regulating heat trace tape in the big box stores. Do a GOOGLE search for suppliers. I also think Caissel gave some sage advice. Being from Canada, he knows what cold is.

Tom,
Is it OK to put this stuff under foam pipe insulation?

 

[TravelTiger]

http://www.ultraheat.com/

These are the pipe heater pads and tank heater pad we bought. They can be covered with insulating foam pipe covers.

I am not worried about our water, we will hook up, fill our water tank as necessary and disconnect the hose... So no we aren't getting any so called "heat tape".

 

[RollingHome]

Bob, you can but it must have SS braid outer sheath and on a CGFI. The box store junk will burn out. Self regulating trace is primarily used in industry. It has 2 nickle plated copper bus wires with carbon polymer between the buss. When it detects heat buildup it turns itself off only in the spot it is warm. In other words you can cross over each other and the hot spot "ONLY" will stop heating. It's a pretty neat product. You don't need a T-Stat on it because it self regulates so well. The temperature ratings vary widely for industry process needs and it must be purchased iin the range needed. High temp will keep pipes over 100 C with proper rap and insulation. Erika is not going to heat their lines, I gave you this info for other uses because I deduced you're in the field... You know too much not to be