Afraid of 2014 Cyclone. Lost wheels on first trip. Being ignored by CS for 6 months

porthole

Retired
I'm right there with ya!

Except you forgot one on your list . . . documentation and proof for each and every time one makes or has these checks made or done!

Good catch John. I left it out because one does not have to document or prove it. It would be incumbent on the manufacturer to prove that you did not perform the required maintenance.
Now that said, there is nothing wrong with keeping receipts and documenting your work.

Torquing wheel lug nuts really came to be more of an issue with the proliferation of alloy wheels. Plain steel wheels have a relatively thin area that is clamped between the hub and lug nut. Alloy wheels could be up to an inch or more at the hub. And some alloy wheels have steel embedded in them.

With trailers, I venture to guess that not only are the alloy wheel an issue, but the quality of the lug nuts and studs as well. Even the diameter of the hub surface can be an issue, and don't think for a minute that diameter has not decreased over the years.The lug nuts that come on the trailers are only an average quality item. Only takes a few seconds of a google search to find yourself higher quality lug nuts.

Now that said. I did over 20 years in the automotive field (that is my post HS degree) with a little over 18 years of that at high volume dealers. Not once that I can recall in the literally thousands of wheels, probably tens of thousands of lug nuts that I R&R'd, did I use a torque wrench. Multiply that by the 10's of thousands of similar operations being performed every year and - my point - wheels are not falling off all over the roadways.

Think about the time required to properly torque my F-350. 165 foot pounds final torque for 24 lug nuts, using 4 steps. 60-100-130-165 - that is 96 separate operations, not including if I oil the washers, which would be another 48 operations. If your think any mech or tech working on time in a shop is going to spend a 1/2 hour doing that - not happening. When seconds count, air is the way. Heck, NASCAR cars run under tremendous loads at speeds up to 200 mph and their air torqued wheels don't have have wheels fall off to often.

But, cars and trucks have different quality hubs, wheels, studs and lug nuts perhaps. They defiantly have wheel bearings that don't have to be cleaned and greased yearly or every 5000 miles.
The tools of choice were made by Ingersoll-Rand, Mac, Chicago pneumatic etc and used varying air pressures of 90-120 psi. Think of all the various lug nut tightening procedures out there between different tools, air pressures and "finger on the trigger times".

Personally, probably in the last 20 years I have used torque wrench hundreds of times more then I ever did. When I was in the automotive field I had a 3/8" drive dial inch pound, 3/8" drive click inch pound and a 1/2" drive click foot pound, with a torque multiplier (threw away the old "beam" type when I started earning a living). Since leaving the field I got rid of the multiplier, but added two more electronic TW's.

Only one of all the torque wrenches I have had was ever sent out to be re-calibrated. Since the cost of that was more then half of a new wrench I never had another wrench calibrated.

I now torque the lug nuts on my trailers, truck and car all the time (if they have been removed). I have never re-checked the cars or trucks, but have the trailers. And the trailers will only get checked once, couple hundred miles maybe.

The real key advantage with using the torque wrench is that you will be clamping all the lug nuts to a fairly equal torque load. Far more equal then air gunning it or just winging it with a lug wrench. A flat wheel on a flat hub with equal clamping pressure across the surface area has little chance of coming loose. One of the reasons for torquing correctly is that you are actually getting the "clamp" by stretching the stud a bit.

More important then if your torque wrench is accurate to within 1-2 foot pounds is that that you can get repeated accuracy within the range of the tool you are using. Example, your 120 ft lb wheels are better off having 6 lug nuts torqued to 115 foot pounds then 6 lug nuts torqued to 120-120-105-148-100-130.

Even the way you use a torque wrench has an outcome on the final torque. Smooth application, hands in the same position every time, wrench "square to the wheel"

If you so desire to buy your self a torque wrench spend the money and buy a good one, that means steer away form the the HF stuff. The Sears line of wrenches have pretty good reviews and the electronic version are rated real good.

If you have one broken stud or perhaps a stripped or seized lug/stud you may be OK for a while, but once the 2nd lug is a failure, wheels will be coming off on their own.

BTW, clean and dry threads for lug nuts and studs. No oil.
But if you have lug nuts with attached washers like on the Ford's, they get a very light oiling at the interface between the nut and the washer. Makes a mess on the wheels though initially.
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
It seems that everyone has their thoughts as to what might have happened. All valid.
But to me it seems odd that since the lugs were torqued before leaving on the trip, three wheels on different axles, all on the same side of the trailer, all being loose, has anyone considered being a victim of a really bad prank along the way?

Peace
Dave
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
I doubt that torque on the lug nuts had anything to do with this . . .

There is a much bigger issue going on with this trailer that needs to be looked at by Heartland!

Be sure to document everything with not only photos, but copies of receipts and any other paperwork you can think of!

I know exactly . . . as I'm going through a similar issue right now.

And so far . . . not getting anywhere!

Except a $5000 repair bill to make my trailer the way is should have been when I bought it . . .
 

whp4262

Well-known member
As JanAndBill stated in their post I would suspect that the lug nuts were started with an air impact and cross threaded. I had a tire shop do that to my daughters car a while back. The nuts were fused on the studs so bad you couldn't take the nuts off without breaking the stud. Had her take the car back and made the shop replace all of the studs and nuts. Also not sure how the assembly line is set up but because the problem was with all three wheels on one side I would bet it was the person on the line putting wheels on that side of the trailers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
When using an air impact wrench on an aluminum alloy wheel, it should only be used to run the nut up. At no time should it engage the impact hammer within the tool.

Yes a written log (ships log), is a good idea. I have one on both the fiver and the TV.

I had a problem with my tow vehicle once, a very unusual problem that took many days to diagnose and repair. The upshot is, that I had fueled the truck prior to taking it to the dealer, entered the milage, and the total hours of operation from the onboard hobbs meter.

When I picked up the repaired truck, I was pulling out of the dealer driveway when I noticed the fuel gage. THE TRUCK WAS EMPTY! Not only was it empty is was bone dry.

I made it to a nearby station and put in 30 gallons in a 31 to 32 gallon tank. While there I noticed that they had only run the truck 80 miles and just a few hours of drive time and diagnosis time. 26 miles of the 80 was the milage from the time I fueled the truck, and the time that the dealer accepted the truck as noted in the invoice.

Once filled I went back to the dealer with all my logged data. He could not offer an explanation about what happened to my fuel, as it is almost impossible to siphon fuel with the new fill neck. The only way to empty a tank like that is to put it on a rack and turn on the fuel pump. He speculated that a mechanic may have mistaken my truck for a truck that had been "miss fueled", and drained it. Could be!

But the service advisor took one look at my service records, and recognized the fact that I have every receipt for every drop of oil, def, fuel, and accessory that I have bought and installed on the truck. He immediately gave me a open purchase order to buy diesel at that same station. 2 weeks later I cashed in with a fill up. Not one studder of an argument came from his lips.

The point is that a log can go a long way in many a battle. As a former government employee, I firmly believe in a saying we had; "He who has the most paperwork, wins!"

This has nothing to do with the lug nut victims problem, but it was mentioned that documenting service was a good idea. I agree with that, and thought you guys would like to hear a story about how effective a log can be. It saved me $100 bucks already, and such a collection of data is always a plus when selling your vehicle to a private party. -just saying
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I said I could guess at 130 foot lbs. You told me I could not torque a wheel in the blind. The next time I rotated the tires on my TV, I told the DW to give me a break over bar instead of my torque wrench. I did 8 lugs, I checked the torque with my torque wrench and they broke at 130 with just a slightly detectable turn before the wrench broke. In my book that was 130.

I think there is a trick to it though. I think that 130 lb. is about as much as a normal large man can put into a break over bar without getting into the wrench.

Maybe that would be a good event at a gathering, we could get master torque guessers.

Not a problem - but for what?
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
The wheel damage is really hard to see other than the damage caused by loose lug nuts. Just how many studs were broken per wheel? If the nuts were checked before travel...why did they come loose? They might have been WAY over tightened at one point. That would stretch the studs and they could break. Wheels need to have some flex in them, if they do not...they will break the studs off in hard turns. A over tightened/weak stud will break for sure. Most wheels have a torque pattern that needs to be followed, otherwise the wheel may not seat against the hub properly.
 
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