Another GVWR post

[Rooster58]

Ok so I have a 06 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab 4x4 with the auto and diesel. It's a base model ST tr truck. The GVWR is 9000lbs with 245/70-17 tires. Those have been long gone and replaced with 275/70-17. As it sits with tool box and tools with no passengers it weighs 7450. Add me the wife and kids along with luggage and I'm sure we are over or right at 8000lbs. Add bikes, generator and other camping stuff and you see where I'm going here. I don't have any GVWR left for towing. But I can load everything into the trailer with a GCWR of the truck being right at 21000lbs and be just fine. Is it really safer to have all the extra weight in the trailer? Now I've got lots of trailer towing experience. Not as much with campers and pickups but lots of towing experience anyway. So I ask again. Is it better to be over GVWR and under GCWR or be under GVWR and so close to GCWR? God I pray this makes sense to y'all fine folks.


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[MCTalley]

Fifth wheel or pull-behind trailer?

If a fifth wheel, you're probably already out of luck.

If a pull-behind, I'd distribute the load between the truck bed and the trailer keeping within both the truck's and the trailer's GVWR if possible. Sounds like you're close enough it might work. Don't forget your trailer's tongue weight, though.

 

[Rooster58]

It's a tow behind. I guess another question I have to ask is just how much weight does a weight distribution hitch take off the truck? Guess I could weight the truck without it installed and again without it installed. Prolly be the only way to be accurate.

According to my numbers there is no way I could tie a fifth wheel other than a very very small one. Although I see them everyday being towed by half tons and three quarter ton trucks. I know the truck can handle more weight than it is rated for. I hear with wood pellets and have hauled two and a half tons of pellets in it before and it drove and handled perfectly. Stopped with no issues at all. Even had a car pull out in front of me and no issues stopping at all.


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[alexb2000]

You've towed a lot, so in your experience did lightning strike you if you were a lb. over a sticker on the door?

The way the trailer is loaded makes a difference, but sometimes unlike a magazine review we can't make it just the way we want.

The leverage on the truck with a bumper pull makes a difference.

Make sure your trailer brakes are tip top.

Etc.

Depending on your setup, if a bumper pull maybe an equalizer hitch, maybe airbags for any type of trailer to help with spring sag and chucking.

You know your drivetrain is the same as a one ton other than spring rate, dually tires, and perhaps rear end gearing. So it's just a matter of adjusting your setup and see if it tows right or not.

 

[Rooster58]

You've towed a lot, so in your experience did lightning strike you if you were a lb. over a sticker on the door?

The way the trailer is loaded makes a difference, but sometimes unlike a magazine review we can't make it just the way we want.

The leverage on the truck with a bumper pull makes a difference.

Make sure your trailer brakes are tip top.

Etc.

Depending on your setup, if a bumper pull maybe an equalizer hitch, maybe airbags for any type of trailer to help with spring sag and chucking.

You know your drivetrain is the same as a one ton other than spring rate, dually tires, and perhaps rear end gearing. So it's just a matter of adjusting your setup and see if it tows right or not.

Yeah the leverage can be huge I know. I went on a trip to Louisiana a few times. The bridge across the aliceway (spelling) basin was no joke. Bounced us all over the place for I think 25 or 30 miles it was.
My big concern is I now live in NY. They have been cracking down on over weight vehicles. Commercial or not. I'll also be going into Canada some and they don't play up there either. The hitch I have is rated up to 12000lbs and 1200 hitch weight so I would think it would reduce the hitch weight by at least 800lbs. I'll find out when I weigh it I guess.


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[alexb2000]

Yeah the leverage can be huge I know. I went on a trip to Louisiana a few times. The bridge across the aliceway (spelling) basin was no joke. Bounced us all over the place for I think 25 or 30 miles it was.
My big concern is I now live in NY. They have been cracking down on over weight vehicles. Commercial or not. I'll also be going into Canada some and they don't play up there either. The hitch I have is rated up to 12000lbs and 1200 hitch weight so I would think it would reduce the hitch weight by at least 800lbs. I'll find out when I weigh it I guess.


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I don't get up to the NE, so NY weighing out non-commercial vehicles vs. placard is surprising (but maybe not in that area).

If that's the case sounds like time to go through the CAT scales a few times and make sure you are OK.

... Officer I had to take all the doors off because she can't go anywhere with less than three suitcases!

 

[Rooster58]

I don't get up to the NE, so NY weighing out non-commercial vehicles vs. placard is surprising (but maybe not in that area).

If that's the case sounds like time to go through the CAT scales a few times and make sure you are OK.

... Officer I had to take all the doors off because she can't go anywhere with less than three suitcases!

Yeah they like to snatch money from as many people as they can up here in this God forsaken state. Luckily I have access to scales that are free. I just have to do it in the middle of the night on the weekend when they aren't busy. I will be able to weigh as many times as I need to.


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[Geodude]

I'm in Ontario and I don't know anyone with an RV that's been pulled over and weighed. The Ministry of Transportation Ontario (MTO) enforcement people told me a month ago they only have enough staff to worry about the big commercial trucks. Enforcement on RVs is left to police. That's Ontario and I don't think it's different in the other provinces, except British Columbia from what I've read over the years, given the mountains out there.

I've been told, by a NY cop, that in NY state they don't pay attention to RVs either.

I'm going thru the new truck shopping process and trying to set myself up so that I'm good on my GVWR, GCWR, GAWRs and my Class G Ontario driver's licence. It's a bit tough hitting the sweet spot and most people tell me that I'm overthinking it. Perhaps, but I think these limits are there for very good reasons so I really want to try to give myself lots of room on all the numbers.

 

[Dawnnira]

I suggest you go look at a Dodge 3500, whatever year that fits your budget. I don't know much about dodge, but there are significant differences in a 250 to a F350 let alone a DRW

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[alexb2000]

I suggest you go look at a Dodge 3500, whatever year that fits your budget. I don't know much about dodge, but there are significant differences in a 250 to a F350 let alone a DRW

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On a SRW other then spring rate and possible rear end ratio, what are the other significant differences on a Super Duty?

 

[Dawnnira]

Brakes, rear end gearing

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[alexb2000]

Brakes, rear end gearing

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What year are we taking about? The modern versions the brakes are the same. You can special order a different rear end gear, but VERY few people do on a SRW.

 

[avvidclif]

I don't know about the new ones but on my '09 F350 SRW it has the same rear end as the 250. The dually is a different and larger rear end with larger brakes.

 

[kf5qby]

They only difference between my Ram 2500 SRW and a Ram 3500 SRW/DRW is the suspension. Everything else in the drive-train (axles, transfer case, engine, transmission, brakes, etc.) is identical to the 3500. They even have the same frame.

 

[justafordguy]

Ford F250 and F350 are the same also, only the dually gets a larger rear axle and brakes.

 

[SNOKING]

They only difference between my Ram 2500 SRW and a Ram 3500 SRW/DRW is the suspension. Everything else in the drive-train (axles, transfer case, engine, transmission, brakes, etc.) is identical to the 3500. They even have the same frame.

The HO (Aisin) duallie gets a slightly larger rear diff. 11.8 vs 11.5" ring gear.

"The new Cummins® high output Turbo dieselmated to the new aisin® six-speed automaticprovides an available powertrain designed forthe rigors of commercial-grade assignments .This level of power warrants a boost in back.Put it into a new ram 3500 dually , add thatnew, larger 11.8-inch rear ring gear, andyou’ve got class-leading [1] max GCWRs* andoutstanding towing figures."

Also the 2500's and 3500's use a slightly different fifth wheel puck mounting, so there are some frame differences. And the 3500 rear air option creates two different frame setups.

When RAM switched the 2500 to rear coils they made a departure from earlier RAMs in that the rear leaf springs are not the only difference.

Chris

 

[alexb2000]

The HO (Aisin) duallie gets a slightly larger rear diff. 11.8 vs 11.5" ring gear.

"The new Cummins® high output Turbo dieselmated to the new aisin® six-speed automaticprovides an available powertrain designed forthe rigors of commercial-grade assignments .This level of power warrants a boost in back.Put it into a new ram 3500 dually , add thatnew, larger 11.8-inch rear ring gear, andyou’ve got class-leading [1] max GCWRs* andoutstanding towing figures."

Also the 2500's and 3500's use a slightly different fifth wheel puck mounting, so there are some frame differences. And the 3500 rear air option creates two different frame setups.

When RAM switched the 2500 to rear coils they made a departure from earlier RAMs in that the rear leaf springs are not the only difference.

Chris

I wonder if all of this makes sense? Make the Aisin standard on HD's, everything goes to air ride, everything goes to the same rear end. Over the road class 8 trucks are all air ride, even vocational trucks are going all air ride, small trucks will follow. Maybe we'll see an air ride cab on a class 3 truck?

I guess we'll see at the next major re-design.

 

[kf5qby]

The HO (Aisin) duallie gets a slightly larger rear diff. 11.8 vs 11.5" ring gear.

"The new Cummins® high output Turbo dieselmated to the new aisin® six-speed automaticprovides an available powertrain designed forthe rigors of commercial-grade assignments .This level of power warrants a boost in back.Put it into a new ram 3500 dually , add thatnew, larger 11.8-inch rear ring gear, andyou’ve got class-leading [1] max GCWRs* andoutstanding towing figures."

Also the 2500's and 3500's use a slightly different fifth wheel puck mounting, so there are some frame differences. And the 3500 rear air option creates two different frame setups.

When RAM switched the 2500 to rear coils they made a departure from earlier RAMs in that the rear leaf springs are not the only difference.

Chris

The puck difference is because of the anti-torsion bar that mounts to the top of the rear diff causing clearance issues. It affects the installation of the B&W turn-over ball as well.

The 2500 has the air spring option as well.

You are arguing mounting brackets and not the overall design/strength of the frame. Since I admitted that yes the suspension is different then I will cede the point that they are not Identical. But that was no the point of my post. I was pointing out for a similarly configured 3500 my 2500 has the same strength components.

No my truck does not have the same components as a 3500 Cummins with the AISIN transmission. Most 3500s don't either unless they were ordered that way.

 

[PondSkum]

I recently contemplated going to a Ram 3500 SRW, but after comparing specs, the Mega Cab 4x4 version payload increases about 2,000 lbs, but the overall towing capacity only increases by about 1200 lbs. I determined that I would need to go DRW to even be worth it. But then if you are trying to play by the "rules" would require a Class A endorsement because the GCVWR goes above 26,000 lbs. My current setup is pretty much borderline, similar to yours. But in TX, I don't think many RV's get messed with as long as you aren't driving like a maniac. I take it slow and steady.

 

[Geodude]

I tell ya, comparing the capabilities of a Ram 3500 SRW with a Ford F-350 SRW, Ram nails it with a much higher payload and a 12,300 GVWR available. I could tow our Bighorn easily with the Ram 3500 SRW put the comparable 2017 Ford SRW just isn't, well, comparable. Ram seems to have done their homework on that count. Too bad there's not enough headroom for me in their higher trim models.