Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
Guess I must have stepped on somebodies toes with my post this morning as the post was pulled. If that is the case to whom ever I stepped on My sincere apology.
Don
Don
Apology
- Thread starter Goldenwingers
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ChopperBill
Well-known member
I have made a few posts that have disappeared. Sure it wasn't from the content and I probably hit the back button on my mouse or just had one of those Old Timer moments. Or it was forum glitch. If it was pulled I am pretty sure you would get a notification as to why.
Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
Well it was there because later I was over at Heartland Corporate office and the post was being looked at by an employee there. Guess someone didn't like the content. Anyway the jest of the post was we were here at Elkhart to get some warrenty work done and should be here for about a week.
Don
Don
Hi Don,
I wanted to call you this morning about this but did not have your number so I asked Jim Fenner and Ron Green to reach you on this. Give me a call (574-333-1153).
There were some "sensitivities" on a few levels that I wanted to head off. JP pulled it with my approval. Thanks for understanding and looking forward to your call.
Wish I was in town to see you guys!
I wanted to call you this morning about this but did not have your number so I asked Jim Fenner and Ron Green to reach you on this. Give me a call (574-333-1153).
There were some "sensitivities" on a few levels that I wanted to head off. JP pulled it with my approval. Thanks for understanding and looking forward to your call.
Wish I was in town to see you guys!
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I don't wish to step in the middle of a dispute without knowing what has transpired. But as a future HL owner, I wish such threads would not be deleted unless they are profane or otherwise inflammatory without any good value to add. Although I don't know the content of the post in question, I don't think posts where people just "complain" should be deleted. Then again, I know I'm not a moderator here. The reason for my statement is that complaints have a way of "balancing out" the total picture conveyed to potential owners.
That was one of the reasons that I don't participate in the NuWa Forum anymore -- people are allowed to "sing the praises" of NuWa repeatedly, but when somebody posted a complaint or something critical, the forum "masses" would jump all over them (however, the thread wasn't deleted; at most it was locked).
Gary
That was one of the reasons that I don't participate in the NuWa Forum anymore -- people are allowed to "sing the praises" of NuWa repeatedly, but when somebody posted a complaint or something critical, the forum "masses" would jump all over them (however, the thread wasn't deleted; at most it was locked).
Gary
truknutt
Committed Member
Folks,
I saw the post in question and I didn't interpret it as a complaint so much as it was kind of a letdown after planning. Am I right Goldwingers?
It was probably pulled due to the personal issue that was included. I didn't think that it was meant to "hurt" anyone but it did include someone's name. Only the moderators and Goldwingers know for sure.
Just my guess..
Don't want anyone to quit reading and posting here 'cause they think it's a dictatorship.
Enjoy the forum,
Dave G.
I saw the post in question and I didn't interpret it as a complaint so much as it was kind of a letdown after planning. Am I right Goldwingers?
It was probably pulled due to the personal issue that was included. I didn't think that it was meant to "hurt" anyone but it did include someone's name. Only the moderators and Goldwingers know for sure.
Just my guess..
Don't want anyone to quit reading and posting here 'cause they think it's a dictatorship.
Enjoy the forum,
Dave G.
CampingJunkie
Active Member
Truknutt, well said.
Both the good, the bad and the ugly need to be allowed to be posted. I think the rainting and profanity definitely need to be deleted. But I also read the original post and while I was a bit confused I assumed they were disappointed the person they needed was no longer there and they were having to start from scratch. I don't see much wrong with that.
To the admin and moderators and anyone else that reads this, just know that this is not the only forum. If you delete something here, it does not mean it was not posted somewhere else. I think that if someone's post is deleted, may cause some hurt feelings and may cause them to raint even more somewhere else. So just keep in mind that too much moderation is truly not fair to the current owners and any prospective owners. All the good, bad and ugly need to be discussed for the benefit of all.
Just my .02
Jennifer
Both the good, the bad and the ugly need to be allowed to be posted. I think the rainting and profanity definitely need to be deleted. But I also read the original post and while I was a bit confused I assumed they were disappointed the person they needed was no longer there and they were having to start from scratch. I don't see much wrong with that.
To the admin and moderators and anyone else that reads this, just know that this is not the only forum. If you delete something here, it does not mean it was not posted somewhere else. I think that if someone's post is deleted, may cause some hurt feelings and may cause them to raint even more somewhere else. So just keep in mind that too much moderation is truly not fair to the current owners and any prospective owners. All the good, bad and ugly need to be discussed for the benefit of all.
Just my .02
Jennifer
Oldlthrneck
Just an Old Jarhead
I saw the post this morning and, for what it is worth, I totally agree with the decision to pull it. There was nothing profane, nor was there any ranting in the post. I have been in a position to make those decisions before and fully understand why it was pulled. There was sensitive information in the post that had nothing to do with the forum or any of the people associated with it. I have never seen any form of censorship practiced on this forum, and doubt that there ever will be. I have no axe to grind nor am I associated, in any way with the running of this forum or Heartland itself. I am just another happy Heartland product owner and fully intend to avail myself of any and all information that I can glean from this forum, in the future.
Hey all,
Me again on this. I want to add a bit more to this so it is better understood.
First, Don did nothing wrong. He was given some information that I do not know as fact with 100% certainty. And if it is not 100% factual, it could be damaging to the person its related to.
So the decision was made to pull it just in case. That's all. Again, Don was not in the wrong here. He stated what was told to him is all. He believes it to be true and it just may - I do not know for certain so down it came.
I hope this is understandable.
Thanks.
Me again on this. I want to add a bit more to this so it is better understood.
First, Don did nothing wrong. He was given some information that I do not know as fact with 100% certainty. And if it is not 100% factual, it could be damaging to the person its related to.
So the decision was made to pull it just in case. That's all. Again, Don was not in the wrong here. He stated what was told to him is all. He believes it to be true and it just may - I do not know for certain so down it came.
I hope this is understandable.
Thanks.
Goldenwingers
goldenwingers
To all who posted on this issue, I talked to Jim about his issues with the post and it was not a rant or a complaint against anyone. I was a bit let down about the way things had gone to that point I respect and value everyones opinion both positive and negative and will now get back to the job at hand (getting my Landmark fixed).
Travel Safe
Don
Travel Safe
Don
jpmorgan37
Well-known member
To those of you who feel that we pull anything that might be a negative comment against Heartland, I suggest that you go back and read the 36,700 post in this forum. I have read the most of them and the few that have been pulled fell into the category of not complying with the rules and regulations of the forum. In some cases, they were saying things, not related to the product, which could be misunderstood by other members of the forum. Some were of a political nature which has nothing to do with the product. In a few cases, when an owner went on a rant and continued without adding any new information, the post was pulled. I don't have an exact count, but I can not believe that in my time as moderator that I have removed more than a dozen post. In some cases, I have sent the author of a post a Private Message requesting that they edit or respond to something that they have written. And to respond to those of you who reminded me that there are other forums out there, I am very aware and also monitor them to see what's being said. I believe that we have one of the best, if not the best forum on the net as far as owners helping owners, and one that is family oriented. I try, as does Jim and Michael, to maintain a high level of integrity and decorum in this forum. If I have offended some of you, I'm sorry, but I do the best that I can to promote the best interest of the forum.
John
John
StevieWonder
Well-known member
I'm concerned that the forum is perhaps a bit too cozy with Heartland. It's not my understanding that the forum was intended to be a public relations tool for Heartland but rather a forum for open discussion about Heartland and it's various product lines.
If something not 100% correct is posted, there are more than adequate opportunities to make necessary corrections or post needed enlightenment about the topic.
Short of glaring obscenities and KNOWN slanderous statements, I'm putting my faith in the Constitution. It's Jim's forum but "cleansing" the posts to make them acceptable or "purging" them is not a policy on other manufacturer related forums including BMW motorcycles, BMW and Porsche automobiles to name but three that I belong to. It's a very slippery slope.
If something not 100% correct is posted, there are more than adequate opportunities to make necessary corrections or post needed enlightenment about the topic.
Short of glaring obscenities and KNOWN slanderous statements, I'm putting my faith in the Constitution. It's Jim's forum but "cleansing" the posts to make them acceptable or "purging" them is not a policy on other manufacturer related forums including BMW motorcycles, BMW and Porsche automobiles to name but three that I belong to. It's a very slippery slope.
htneighbors
Unbelievably Blessed!
leftyf
SSG Stumpy-VA Terrorist
JP,
I don't see where you did anything wrong. You called it as you saw it...and whether people like it or not..you're still the umpire. You're doing a good job doing what youre doing. If you see it as a honest call...that's what it is.
In 5 years what is this really going to matter?
I don't see where you did anything wrong. You called it as you saw it...and whether people like it or not..you're still the umpire. You're doing a good job doing what youre doing. If you see it as a honest call...that's what it is.
In 5 years what is this really going to matter?
rvv
Member
IMO StevieWonder has it pretty much right. Censorship, warranted or not, tends to stiffle candid discussion. Ironically, it tends to have a greater affect (stiffling) on the "good actors" than it does on the "bad actors." The reverse of what you would hope. In my relatively brief exposure to this forum it seems to me that most participants have exhibited enough intelligence AND common sense to separate the "rantors" from those with legitimate concerns and criticisms. Those who participate only to rant end up discrediting themselves. Their comments are ignored or dismissed by the vast majority of us. On the other hand, when legitimate concerns and criticisms are expressed they serve to make all of us (manufacturers, dealers, servicers, owners, etc.) aware of current and potential problems (some safety related) with our units and their maintenance. This is an extremely useful (and entertaining) forum. I have already learned more here about my unit and rving in general than I would have ever imagined. Jim, JP and "the Kid", you each do a great job and I'm sure its even more challenging than it appears. I hope these comments will be taken by all in the positive spirit in which they were written. I whole heartedly agree that profane and off color remarks should not be made nor tolerated but otherwise ......... RVV
stevie
stevie
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Don,
I think Jim and the moderators know what they are doing and sometimes must make these type of decisions. Not one of them are paid to moderate the forum, except for Jim's new position with Heartland. I have had 1 post removed because I responded to someones political comment which I took exception with, and as politics has no place in this forum, it was entirely correct to delete both our posts. Jim sent me a PM explaining his actions, and I had no problem. I also had one post edited as I ranted about a RV dealer who was uncooperative, and Jim felt that because it involved sensitive service issues, it was inappropriate. I totally understood, and edited the post myself. Since I am a rookie RVer, this forum has been the most uplifting and informative media, and I have learned more already from all the wonderful informative folks here than I could ever imagine so IMHO everybody cool down and enjoy.
I think Jim and the moderators know what they are doing and sometimes must make these type of decisions. Not one of them are paid to moderate the forum, except for Jim's new position with Heartland. I have had 1 post removed because I responded to someones political comment which I took exception with, and as politics has no place in this forum, it was entirely correct to delete both our posts. Jim sent me a PM explaining his actions, and I had no problem. I also had one post edited as I ranted about a RV dealer who was uncooperative, and Jim felt that because it involved sensitive service issues, it was inappropriate. I totally understood, and edited the post myself. Since I am a rookie RVer, this forum has been the most uplifting and informative media, and I have learned more already from all the wonderful informative folks here than I could ever imagine so IMHO everybody cool down and enjoy.
- Status
