Humm. I recently talked with 2012 Cyclone owner at a rest stop. Of course I ask him how he liked his Cyclone. He said th e first rain they got into had major leak from two windows. On inspection the windows were installed up-side down. He had to replace and fix TV connections. I ask if he was a member of HL Owners Forum. He was not aware of it so I ask him to join up. He said he repaired the items himself as he was several hundred miles from his dealer. I suppose QC missed that unit. He stated he had no more leaks are problems after the repairs.
Audit Bay at Heartland!
- Thread starter ihsolutions
- Start date
jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
While analysis of post-sales problems is informative, it is an analysis of history. The real-time audit should analyze the present. Good for Heartland. I hope that closeout panels are open for the audit process to evaluate hidden installation techniques and problems(areas for improvement). I hope the audit team will use the rv as a customer would and not just a walk-through. Include the designers as 'invited' members of the team.
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the feedback. My failure to mention what happens to employees who miss the mark is due to my lack of knowledge of the remediation process (meetings, retraining, reassignments, terminations etc.). If we're not implementing what we learn from these audits, then we're spinning our wheels.
Jim
John,
Thank you for the feedback and thank you for your trust in us that we're striving very hard to build an even better coach. As you eluded to, perfection will not be achieved. Greatness however, can be. With a random sampling type of audit process, some defects will still get out the door. But the longer audit process is in place, the better each plant and their processes will get.
Jim
Upside down windows? Good grief! Happy to hear he got it all fixed, albeit by himself. Hope he still likes us, even with our warts. Thank you for reaching out to him.
By the way "I have the QC Directors ear" and I will be using it! I assume they do a window operation check. Some windows that slide open horizontally, I suppose, could be missed for "upside down installation". What if we did a weep hole walk-around outside the coach to ensure all weep holes were visible "at the bottom of the window"? I'll be passing this along as this 2012 model year product is still somewhat recent (within 24 months).
Jim
Ted,
Thank you for the feedback. If by "close-out panels", you mean the removable panels that separate the storage bay from the utility area that contains the pump, water heater, furnace etc., then the answer is YES. They do remove these panels as part of their systems testing and inspection process during the audit.
Jim
wildwolfproducts
Well-known member
Hope when we get ours ordered, its one of the chosen ones that gets the extra steps. Used to work for a boat dealer, we sold yachts up to 5 million each. These units were build then 3 people went through each step of the build. Not much was ever let out the factory with issues. But if they were, when the unit hit the yard. We were all over it, owner told us he would rather find an issue before anyone else got to see it. To me a dealer should have a unit searched and fixed before anyone gets to see it.
2 weeks ago we looked a a few Cardinals. Each one had issues that should not have made it out of the factory. Then the bad part was there ideal of QC at the dealers lot.. OOOhh we will fix that when someone buys it.. One the door would not shut without working it. One of the others had a leaking cylinder on front. Fluid everywhere!! Wall panel bucked out 4" and just lots of stuff like this sitting on the lot. Now these were just delivered units within the last 2 weeks..
Sure glad we have not seen near this much from Heartland, But did see stuff that I could not believe was let out of the factory without being caught.
We plan on staying near the dealers lot for 3 days if not longer to make sure any issues are taken care of before we leave. Plus will be taking a tour of the plant while there also.
2 weeks ago we looked a a few Cardinals. Each one had issues that should not have made it out of the factory. Then the bad part was there ideal of QC at the dealers lot.. OOOhh we will fix that when someone buys it.. One the door would not shut without working it. One of the others had a leaking cylinder on front. Fluid everywhere!! Wall panel bucked out 4" and just lots of stuff like this sitting on the lot. Now these were just delivered units within the last 2 weeks..
Sure glad we have not seen near this much from Heartland, But did see stuff that I could not believe was let out of the factory without being caught.
We plan on staying near the dealers lot for 3 days if not longer to make sure any issues are taken care of before we leave. Plus will be taking a tour of the plant while there also.
slmayor
Founding California Northern Chapter Leader
I believe this is an excellent step for Heartland. As someone who deals with the warranty end of these trailers (Excellent department, by the way) I would suggest holding the dealers feet to the fire as well. I know they have an allowance to do a PDI before the unit is delivered to the end buyer. What we find (and it's not just HL) is that the dealer doesn't do any PDI and instead lets the owner take delivery and discover the issues on their own, then they (dealers) can bill HL for warranty service when the units have leaks, etc.
There needs to be a check list for dealers that they have to complete and sign before handing off the new trailers. Then only those repairs outside of the PDI allowance items could be billed within a certain time period. I would also suggest a check list of some sort for new owners to check off, verifying that they have been shown how to work the systems by the dealers.
We do not sell any RVs. I just deal with the aftermath of bad dealer service everyday. Maybe there could be more required education for the dealers? Just a few ideas I've been kicking around.
There needs to be a check list for dealers that they have to complete and sign before handing off the new trailers. Then only those repairs outside of the PDI allowance items could be billed within a certain time period. I would also suggest a check list of some sort for new owners to check off, verifying that they have been shown how to work the systems by the dealers.
We do not sell any RVs. I just deal with the aftermath of bad dealer service everyday. Maybe there could be more required education for the dealers? Just a few ideas I've been kicking around.
You made a good point on "required education for the dealers", we asked this very same question early on when we were newbees to the Heartland family when a botched leno job was done at a dealership and we refused to take delivery on it, we deemed it unexceptable. My wife made mention to Jim Fenner that an instructional video on each step of the manufacturing process would be helpful and be given to the Dealerships that sell and warranty our products, so the service workers know how certain things are installed and done at the factory. I think thats a pretty good idea. Hey Jim !! sign me up, I'll come to the factory with my video cam and start shooting !! (LOL) Instructional video's are everwhere and for everything, why not for Rv's ?. Again, sign me up for the job !!
JMHO,
Bobby & Lisa too
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
Here is another idea: Something of the order of a "shopper". you could have them do a service type contact. you could also do a sales type contace. You could also do a phone type contact, either for sales or service or both. Just an idea.
Heartland has the best QC people already looking at every trailer built, the people who buy them!!!!!!!
when you buy a big horn you know if you read this forum the fresh water tank will probably be hard to fill , the coax cable connectors may fall off , there will be a lot of water leaks, the air conditioner will not blow through some of the vents right, you might need to work on the ice box vent to get it to cool down low enought. The springs might go flat. The china tires may blow Etc.
I don't know what the dealers send to the factory about the things they do warranty wise, the real picture is here on the forum from the people who use them
i still read about the same things on new trailers, that I read about over a year ago before I bought mine
looks like they could read forum and see some nagging problems and get them fixed
we do like our trailer. Sometime its like a dog with fleas, you dread a trip, because no telling what is going to bite you next!!!!!!!!!
when you buy a big horn you know if you read this forum the fresh water tank will probably be hard to fill , the coax cable connectors may fall off , there will be a lot of water leaks, the air conditioner will not blow through some of the vents right, you might need to work on the ice box vent to get it to cool down low enought. The springs might go flat. The china tires may blow Etc.
I don't know what the dealers send to the factory about the things they do warranty wise, the real picture is here on the forum from the people who use them
i still read about the same things on new trailers, that I read about over a year ago before I bought mine
looks like they could read forum and see some nagging problems and get them fixed
we do like our trailer. Sometime its like a dog with fleas, you dread a trip, because no telling what is going to bite you next!!!!!!!!!
I'm on several brand-specific forums as we research for our full-time coach. On one of them, someone mentioned that he had just purchased another brand, and someone asked whether the frank and open discussion of problems had turned him against that brand. His reply was that it did not.
We're going to be buying a used coach no matter what brand or class of RV we choose. Having some idea of where the trouble spots have been will help us to do a better job of checking our new-to-us coach. These issues aren't going to make us decide against a Heartland product. In fact, we bought our mpg because we were impressed with a Big Horn, and thought that having a Heartland trailer to trade in might help the deal should we decide on a Big Horn later on.
Our mpg is a good example of what happens when a factory makes running changes. Depending on when it was built, a 2-011 mpg 181 can have a front window but no back window, a front window and a back window, a street-side window in the dinette, no street-side window in the dinette, a dinette table with two folding legs that can be taken outside, a dinette table that attaches to the wall and has only one let and therefore can't be taken outside. No, these variations weren't options. This are running changes that were made during the year.
As for changes to improve quality, last year I was on the tour that saw how a Big Country went together. At one point in the tour, one of the men commented that some of the electrical outlets seemed as solid as the ones in his house, while others seemed "loose" in the wall. I pointed out the problem (the outlet was mounted only to the plywood between two wall studs, rather than attached to a stud) and pointed out how that particular wall could be framed to allow the outlet to stay where it was but still be attached to a stud. Obviously I have no idea whether that change was ever made. A change like that, though, shouldn't take more than a week or so to implement.
One thing that I'd like to see done, industry-wide, is to build each coach to a specific plan and then give a copy of that plan to the first purchaser. Some brands that are almost semi-custom coaches anyway almost have to do this. Heartland isn't in that business, so all 2011 BH 3585's (to pick on Don and Gena) ought to be pretty much the same as far as wire runs, water line runs, etc. Are they? Or does it depend on who was doing what that day?
We're going to be buying a used coach no matter what brand or class of RV we choose. Having some idea of where the trouble spots have been will help us to do a better job of checking our new-to-us coach. These issues aren't going to make us decide against a Heartland product. In fact, we bought our mpg because we were impressed with a Big Horn, and thought that having a Heartland trailer to trade in might help the deal should we decide on a Big Horn later on.
Our mpg is a good example of what happens when a factory makes running changes. Depending on when it was built, a 2-011 mpg 181 can have a front window but no back window, a front window and a back window, a street-side window in the dinette, no street-side window in the dinette, a dinette table with two folding legs that can be taken outside, a dinette table that attaches to the wall and has only one let and therefore can't be taken outside. No, these variations weren't options. This are running changes that were made during the year.
As for changes to improve quality, last year I was on the tour that saw how a Big Country went together. At one point in the tour, one of the men commented that some of the electrical outlets seemed as solid as the ones in his house, while others seemed "loose" in the wall. I pointed out the problem (the outlet was mounted only to the plywood between two wall studs, rather than attached to a stud) and pointed out how that particular wall could be framed to allow the outlet to stay where it was but still be attached to a stud. Obviously I have no idea whether that change was ever made. A change like that, though, shouldn't take more than a week or so to implement.
One thing that I'd like to see done, industry-wide, is to build each coach to a specific plan and then give a copy of that plan to the first purchaser. Some brands that are almost semi-custom coaches anyway almost have to do this. Heartland isn't in that business, so all 2011 BH 3585's (to pick on Don and Gena) ought to be pretty much the same as far as wire runs, water line runs, etc. Are they? Or does it depend on who was doing what that day?
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Although I see where you are coming from I have to say being a 2011 Bighorn owner that we have not experienced any problems of any significance with our trailer. We have towed over 10,000 miles without issue. Pull in - plug in and it works, pull it out in the spring, blow it out,turn it on and it works...great. I was visiting with a friend last night that just bought a class C, he asked about our trailer, I told him "I didn't see a coach I'd rather have before buying and I haven't seen one since in any class I would trade even for now". I'm not saying it's the best coach out there.... it's just the best coach for us out there. In my opinion this audit program is just one more example of how Heartland separates themselves from the pack.
TXBobcat
Fulltime
I think it would an intresting thing Heartland could do to improve QC. Starting on Jan. 1 keep track of the problems that are reported to Heartland through out the year. At the end of the year everyone in the group that has the least problems might get a $5,000 year end bonus. Now I know there will be problems that do not fall into the warranty and some that are not corrected by the company but by the owner. I think if I were on that line I would be busting my butt to make sure I had no problems.
FWIW
BC
FWIW
BC
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
A profit-sharing program of sorts. The more warranty claims paid out, the less the profit sharing pot. Not necessarily by group, either, but the plant as a whole. That way, if something does slip past Team #1 and Team #2 sees it, they will have an incentive to get it corrected ASAP, rather than letting it go on down the line under the NMJ mentality.
But, I'll reiterate that other than one "factory" problem that was caught by my dealer and fixed by Heartland (warranty), my rig has been about as good as it gets.
