Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power. SOLVED

[sbhoward]

Ever since we first bought our BC a year ago now, we have had no charging of my 12v batteries. Either on the road or on shore power. Been at the dealer 3 or 4 times. When we stop somewhere I need to plug in a battery charger to keep the system going ( we have a converter and residential fridge.)

I realize from reading the board that is is most likely one of the breakers, probably the manual reset breaker. I have pushed the reset button many times to no avail. Have not checked the breaker with a voltmeter or ohm meter as there is nothing I could do about it while on the road anyway.

While studying the basement battery compartment, the wiring looks wrong, but who am I to judge?

A 12v line comes down to the 12v buss bar, feeding 12 volts to the buss side of the breakers. But there is nothing attached to the other side of the manual reset breaker. If this is right what good does it do? If not, what is normally there on the other side of the manual reset breaker?

One reason I am unsure of the dealer is the last time we had it in, I received it back with all the red rubber insulators missing. Replaced them on my own from a local rv repair shop.

I love the rig, but wife is so frustrated now she wants to invoke the lemon law!

Any help or explanation would be appreciated. I have downloaded the excellent 12v manual from the manual links.

Thanks again

Steve

 

[danemayer]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Hi Steve,

Sounds like your dealer has been messing with the connections, perhaps without understanding what's what. The attached drawing from the Residential Refrigerator Guide is closer to what your Big Country has. Start at the circuit breakers in the lower left, and follow power to the Power Converter which changes 120V AC into 12V DC, which then goes to the Fuse Box, and then to the Buss Bar on the right side of the diagram.

That wire from the Power Converter/Fuse Box is what provides power to keep the batteries charged. It's a heavy gauge wire, similar to the wire that feeds power from the buss bar to the Hydraulic Pump. In the photo that's attached, the wire to the Power Converter is in the topmost position. But it may be different on yours. Look for the 2 heavy gauge wires.

It's possible the dealer moved it to another position on the buss bar. Or maybe he tucked it away somewhere out of sight. But until you have a connection from Power Converter to Buss Bar, you will not have any charge applied to your batteries.

If your 12V DC lights, thermostat, and other stuff all work when plugged into shore power (you can test this by turning the battery cutoff switches to OFF), that tells you the Power Converter is providing power to the fuse box. If you have a meter handy, with the battery cutoff switches both OFF, measure the voltage on the buss bar (red probe on the buss bar, black probe touching a ground on the RV). If you have 13+ volts, the power is getting through to the buss bar. If that's the case, you may have a problem closer to the batteries, or with battery ground cable.

 

[wdk450]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Steve:
You need to look at this drawing: http://manuals.heartlandowners.org/..._Buss_Bar/Heartland/Buss_Bar_for_LM-BH-BC.pdf

You should have a wire coming from the power converter/charger to the 12 volt buss on the fuse panel, and then on to the screw side of the mini circuit breaker.

Having some basic electrical knowledge and a voltmeter to measure things can help you a lot in understanding/fixing electrical stuff with your rig. I would invite you to explore the electrical section of the HOC online manuals under the "tools" tab at the top of any forum page. See: http://manuals.heartlandowners.org/?man=Electrical/Basic Electrical Info

If you had no battery connected, you should have 12 volts from the converter on the 12 volt DC circuits whenever the converter/charger is supplied with a source of power. There are fuses ON the power converter box to the 12 volt fusepanel which might blow. This would cause a loss of 12 volt power and a loss of charging to the battery. The battery should be charged in 2 ways - From the 12 volt converter/charger, through the mini breaker when the rig is plugged into shorepower, and directly from the tow vehicle through the charging connection (pin 4) of the umbilical cable.



It is VERY important to have a charged trailer battery AT ALL TIMES WHEN TRAILER TOWING AS A MATTER OF HIGHWAY SAFETY, as the emergency disconnect braking lanyard depends on this supply of electrical power to stop the trailer in the event of a catastrophic disconnect event. The connection from the truck charging system should be another direct connection to the battery system, with no switches or fuses in between. Your truck may have a fuse on the trailer connector charging wiring that may be blown.

Measuring with a voltmeter at the battery, you should normally read about 12.3 volts with a fully charged battery, and a little higher than that when either the converter/charger or truck electrical system is connected and charging the battery.

You can get voltmeters at Radio Shack, E-Bay, or Harbor Freight Tools for a moderate cost.

 

[sbhoward]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Thanks, Dan. I'll study your drawings a bit. All 12v works well when on shore power, but nothing inside works when NOT of shore power. Not even the tank level indicators.

- - - Updated - - -

Bill - Thanks for the tips. I have a basic electrical understanding, and I do travel with voltmeters. Just trying to understand whats happening ( hence the photo) and figure out while the dealer hasn't been able to correct this since new. I am getting into this issue, but don't want Heartland or the dealer says I voided any warranty by working on it myself.

I have had the mentioned manuals for a while, and in fact, have the diagram or two printed and in my binder.

Hopefully when we meet at Vegas or Jackson, I'll have this resolved.

If & when I discover the issue, I will report it back to the forum.

Thanks again.

 

[sjandbj]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Steve,
The answer to the mystery breaker is that not all the breakers are used on all the models. there is a copper bar that is common to all the other breakers and it looks like it is using the one side to connect to the bar. I have seen this on my Big Country. I am not sure about the battery charging but it would sound like it is the breaker since that is the one item that is common to both the shore power and the TV power.

Regards,
Steve

 

[sbhoward]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Thanks, Dan. After reviewing the drawing and taking another look at the basement, it appears I have a line from the converter to the batteries, and that's why I do have 12v when on shore power.

But if you look at my attached photo ( in original post - need to do a closer shot) you will see the battery comes to the power buss to supply power but there is NOTHING on the other side of the breaker. If I read the diagram correctly, this should be a line to the 12v fuse panel and supply power when the converter is not in service. This connection post is empty. As I see it, this would also explain no charging of the batteries, even when on shore power.

Am I reading this correctly?

 

[wdk450]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Steve:
Here is the routing of the 12 volt power from the power converter to the battery. 12 VDC output from the converter/charger goes to the common buss on the fusepanel. From there it SHOULD go to the "Converter" 12VDC buss minibreaker wire screw terminal. The power then goes through the minibreaker to the 12VDC minibreaker common buss bar, which is connected to the positive battery terminal. The "Converter" minibreaker can open for either charging current overloads going into the battery, or battery discharging overloads generated by devices connected to the fusepanel. Larger 12VDC loads like the slides motor, or landing gear motor have their own minibreakers on the buss bar.

Again, the charging circuit from the truck is directly tied to the battery, so the positive terminal on the trailer battery should have at least 2 wires/cables on it.

I see that you are a fellow amateur (Ham) radio operator. Sorry if I assumed an electrical knowledge level much less than you possess. You never know EXACTLY who you are talking to, and people inexperienced in electricity will also read the posts and find out where to learn much more in the "Manuals" section under the "Tools" tab.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

Thanks, Dan. After reviewing the drawing and taking another look at the basement, it appears I have a line from the converter to the batteries, and that's why I do have 12v when on shore power.

But if you look at my attached photo ( in original post - need to do a closer shot) you will see the battery comes to the power buss to supply power but there is NOTHING on the other side of the breaker. If I read the diagram correctly, this should be a line to the 12v fuse panel and supply power when the converter is not in service. This connection post is empty. As I see it, this would also explain no charging of the batteries, even when on shore power.

Am I reading this correctly?

First, you do have a breaker that has nothing on the output side. But the wire to the Power Converter/Fuse Box could be attached to a different breaker. And as mentioned earlier, sometimes there can be an unused breaker on the buss bar.

If you do have a wire from the converter to the batteries, you should be able to measure between 13.2 and 13.6V DC at the buss bar when plugged into shore power. Check on the copper bar side of the buss bar.

If you do have 13+ V at the buss bar copper strip, that means power from the Converter is getting there and the wiring between Converter and buss bar is ok, and the breaker is ok. So check that next.

I'm beginning to suspect you have an open fuse between batteries and buss bar. If you have 13+ at the buss bar and less than that at the battery positive post, the problem is in between buss bar and batteries.

So, let us know what the voltage is on that copper strip on the buss bar.

 

[sbhoward]

Re: Battery not charging/ no 12v when off Shore power

SOLVED: Dan and all - Once I got back home and didn't need to worry about a refrigerator keeping cool, I started exploring with a voltmeter at the buss bar. What I discovered and later tested/verified, was that the dealer had put the DC Fuse panel/Power converter cable on a 30 Amp auto reset breaker, not the 50 amp manual reset breaker. Once I put the wire on the 50 amp manual reset breaker, all was working ( 12v with no shore power ).

The auto reset breaker they had it on appears to have gone open ( too much current?) I know they were working in this area, as they also "lost" all the red rubber breaker insulators.

This is the same dealer that couldn't find the remote receiver to program the remote control and were going to rewire the coach. I had to show them where the receiver was located!

Thanks everyone for all the help!