Big Country - Wheel Bearing Grease

[dave10a]

All reputable bearing mfg.'s like Timken and Dexter recommend replacing the cup and bearing no matter how good the bearing appears to look because of normal wear. I simply don't understand why some service organizations don't do that. If one has a bearing failure that results from improper service that results in a loss of a wheel, that could result in a law suit-- Not replacing the cup and bearing together is improper service.....

 

[JohnD]

If one has a bearing failure that results from improper service that results in a loss of a wheel, that could result in a law suit-- Not replacing the cup and bearing together is improper service.....

When our wheel bearing burned up on our Trail Runner all of the pieces were so burned up that I doubt that any of it could be used as evidence to prove that someone didn't do it right had that been the case.

 

[dave10a]

When our wheel bearing burned up on our Trail Runner all of the pieces were so burned up that I doubt that any of it could be used as evidence to prove that someone didn't do it right had that been the case.

That is why one needs a detailed explanation of service when it is performed. Most reputable organizations provide that along with a receipt when service is performed. If the explanation of service is too brief or not available, it must be requested for your protection. Also most service organization warrant their work. If your bearing failed within that warranty period, you should be able to ask them to resolve the issue to your satisfaction.

 

[Jim_Hull]

Getting ready to repack the wheel bearings on my Big Country 4010RD this coming weekend for the first time. Does anyone happen to know the part number for the correct rear grease seals so I can get them before I start? I thought I would call Heartland this morning, but then remembered they are closed today and tomorrow, so I thought I would throw the question out to those more experienced and knowledgeable than I on the subject to see if you guys had the information. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[JohnD]

That is why one needs a detailed explanation of service when it is performed. Most reputable organizations provide that along with a receipt when service is performed. If the explanation of service is too brief or not available, it must be requested for your protection. Also most service organization warrant their work. If your bearing failed within that warranty period, you should be able to ask them to resolve the issue to your satisfaction.

That is all fine and dandy . . .

Unless you are stranded more than 1000 miles away from home like we were.

We needed to get back on the road and didn't have the time to research the warranty, not too mention that we tend to keep service records and such in a file cabinet at home, and not in the trailer just in case we might need it.

However, that experience taught us that most valuable lessen.

Not to mention that we learned just how bad our extended warranty on the RV really was.

After all was said and done we wound up with a $4000 repair bill, and our extended warranty offered to pay $150 of it.

After we paid the $150 deductible, of course.

 

[BigGuy82]

Getting ready to repack the wheel bearings on my Big Country 4010RD this coming weekend for the first time. Does anyone happen to know the part number for the correct rear grease seals so I can get them before I start? I thought I would call Heartland this morning, but then remembered they are closed today and tomorrow, so I thought I would throw the question out to those more experienced and knowledgeable than I on the subject to see if you guys had the information. Thanks in advance for the help.

I get mine from my dealer, but they are only 5 miles away - can't go wrong and the price is competitive once you factor in obnoxious online shipping charges.

You've got 7K Dexter axles on the coach. To confirm, crawl under the coach and get the axle information off of the label on the axles.

If you are going to do the job this coming weekend, don't waste your time trying to get the parts from Heartland. In my experience, they are painfully slow. Go to a dealer or eTrailer has these and can likely get them to you more quickly:

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bearings-Races-Seals/Redline/9103309.html

They have cheaper ones if you scroll down.

 

[Jim_Hull]

Thanks for the info BigGuy82. Much appreciated.

 

[Gary521]

Grease seals: CR 22558 or National 472920

 

[BigGuy82]

Grease seals: CR 22558 or National 472920

Jim_Hull -

So, based on Gary's email, I decided to do a deeper dive on grease seals. The link I gave you works on my axle but hey - you never know. I called Heartland, who referred me to Dexter, who said that the Dexter part number for that seal is 010-036-00. The National Seal cross reference for that is 472920. The seal specs are 3.376 OD, 2.250 ID and .38 thick. The link I gave you meets those specs but does not cross reference the correct National part number, so if you want to be 100% compliant with Dexter specs, I'd recommed that you contact Dexter (574) 295-7888 with your axle LN # (off the tag on the axle) and they will provide you with a sheet that looks like this:



They will also give you a National Seal cross reference number. You can buy the seal from Dexter or find the correct seal using the cross reference number. Since I have 7K axles just like you, I'm guessing it will be the same seal.

Good luck - it's really a pretty easy job. Messy, but easy.

 

[Jim_Hull]

Dick, wow!! Thanks for taking the time to dig deeper for me. I think I will be calling Dexter just to confirm I have the right part number just like you did because I want to do it right. I just did a smaller trailer last weekend, so I know it is not that big of a job, and I have a nifty little tool that makes the packing a lot less messy and a lot quicker. It is called a Lisle Handy Packer Bearing Packer. I used it for the first time last weekend repacking the bearings on a car hauler I have and it literally took seconds to pack each bearing with no mess on my hands. I was shocked at how simple it was.

Anyway, I will call Dexter on Friday when I can get to the trailer in storage to get the number off the axles and get a sheet from them with all the proper information. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Jim_Hull]

Dick,

Thanks again for the advice. I called Dexter this morning and they immediately sent me a build sheet on my axles. It is exactly like yours and gives me everything I will ever need to know about my axles. I am going to print it out and keep it with all of the other info on the coach. Thanks again to everyone for your assistance. That is the most valuable part of this forum.

 

[NHCelt]

FWIW... My 1 year old beatings were well greased and in good shape. Of interest is the Dexter requirement to use Permatex red rtv on the replacement seal. Their procedures for 7000 lb axles require it. I called and they were clear that it needs to be used. Could this be the reason that I read about seal failures... Is everyone doing this? I did.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

 

[BigGuy82]

FWIW... My 1 year old beatings were well greased and in good shape. Of interest is the Dexter requirement to use Permatex red rtv on the replacement seal. Their procedures for 7000 lb axles require it. I called and they were clear that it needs to be used. Could this be the reason that I read about seal failures... Is everyone doing this? I did.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

You used a form of "liquid gasket" on a grease seal? Interesting.

I've never used anything other than a wood block and a mallet to seat any grease seal, as the fit of the seal to the wheel is quite snug. I can't see where using a sealant of any sort would be useful.

Anybody else doing this?

 

[WillyBill]

@BigGuy82,

Permatex Red on the outside of the seal shell is a long standing "Best Practices" for seal installation, whether it's for a grease or oil system, automotive, truck, or trailer application. Reason being - if, for whatever reason by whomever, there is any kind of burr or scratch on the seal bore in the hub, the red will likely seal it up and prevent the grease or oil from escaping and additionally helps those with the grease zerks on the spindle stay installed at the correct height in the bore even if greased too "enthusiastically". IMHO I agree with this practice. I was taught this 50 years ago and have seen it save bad situations from arising numerous times when other things were not perfect.

WB

 

[jakoenig1]

Many of the new seals come with a preapplied sealant on the OD of the seal. This probably varies by Brand of seal. I don't think it is required on seals with a coating but it probably cant hurt either. In 30 years of repacking bearings, I have never used a sealant on the od, with or without a coating. If the parts are free of damage, it shouldn't be required. Never had a problem. The seals that leaked when I used the EZ Lube feature clearly leaked from the sealing lip, not from the OD. Most of the problem was caused by handling damage to the seal surface during manufacturing. I worked in manufacturing and what people do to brand new parts is unbelievable. I have seen them take parts out of a grinding machine and throw them into a bin with other new parts leaving nicks and dents on the new surface. It is difficult to see in the picture below but there is a flat spot underneath the seal lip surface of the axle. Dexter refused to replace that axle so I moved the seal 1/16th deeper than normal getting the seal lip off the dent.

 

[NHCelt]

You used a form of "liquid gasket" on a grease seal? Interesting.

I've never used anything other than a wood block and a mallet to seat any grease seal, as the fit of the seal to the wheel is quite snug. I can't see where using a sealant of any sort would be useful.

Anybody else doing this?

I had never heard of doing this either but watched the Dexter video to refresh my old brain before the job. Even called them to get some more info...they advised this is best practice and that it is also standard on factory bearings. I noticed with interest a previous poster indicating he had been doing it this way for years.

If you watch the Dexter video, you will also notice that they are not shy with the application....load em right up. I was a bit more judicious.

 

[alexb2000]

I'd be interested to see an example of any loss of grease from the metal seal to hub junction.

I suppose the dust cap should be siliconed on as well since it is the same type of fitting?

Maybe we could tap the hub for a schrader valve and pressure test before returning to service?

I could see (and I do) this level of precaution on an oil bath axle, but I'll reserve changing my procedure with grease until someone can show me some evidence.

 

[WillyBill]

Another point...The silicone, being slick like silicone is, also helps the seal go in nicely without binding or cocking.

WB

 

[BigGuy82]

Another point...The silicone, being slick like silicone is, also helps the seal go in nicely without binding or cocking.

WB

I don't know - it seems like we're getting out into the loose gravel on this one. I'm starting to wonder if this is perhaps a butt covering exercise on Dexter's part. Relying on a liquid gasket to form a seal on a wheel spindle under high pressure and high rpm's just doesn't make sense. That's the purpose of the seal and also, that seal should mount just fine with the grease already on the spindle. As far as cocking, I'm guessing that a properly installed seal can't possibly get cocked during mounting.

Why butt covering? Well, say you have axle problems and you didn't use this somewhat arcane procedure, then of course the warranty is void because it's your fault. Does this procedure exist anywhere else (in say a Motors Manual or a Chilton Manual)? While I agree that it ceratinly can't hurt anything to do this, I do question if it's at all valid, despite what Dexter says.

 

[jakoenig1]

I agree with the but covering exercise. I have the EZ lube feature on my 19 year old boat trailer and never had grease leak past the seal. I would pump new grease in them every year and inspect them every 10 years and replace the seals. I never had to rotate the tire as I pumped grease in them either. There is something wrong with the Dexter version of EZ Lube. Three out of four wheels leaked grease onto the brakes even though I uses their method which is a pain in the but because you need two hands to operate the grease gun. One wheel had an obvious defect on the seal surface but I couldn't find anything wrong with the other two.

Either the hole that lets grease out past the retaining washer is too small or the seal does not have enough pressure on the lip to prevent grease from getting past the seal. Maybe that is why they put so little grease on their bearings from the factory. They know they have a grease leakage problem if they put more grease on the bearing.

They know they have a design problem but like Towmax tires, they don't want to fix it. Just keep telling your customers that they need to do this and that and throw salt over their left shoulder as they install the wheel while saying I Love Dexter Axles.