Brakes

[Sandpirate69]

hardrocker,

Just my .02. These guys on this forum will not steer you in the wrong direction. I have used their assistance & information several times without fail. Some of these fellas have figured out how the water enters the coconut, just saying. Boys continue passing on the wisdom.

Thanks,
Ivan

 

[cookie]

I went out to aggresively burnish my brakes. Early in the process my brake controller indicated "Trailer Electrical Fault", and I wound up with even less braking than before. The Ford manual says that there is either a short to ground in the braking circuit. I put the ohm meter between the blue and ground wires. The resistance is only 1.2 ohms, when I believe the spec is 2.8 to 3 ohms. I am now in the process of trying to figure out where the braking wires are shorted.

Does anyone know of a wiring diagram for the camper?

I was surprised how thin the wire on the braking circuit is. It can't be much more than 16 gage.

I have been down this road. If your brake controller shows a fault to ground then you most likely have a bad magnet or a shorted wire on the backing plate. In my case I had a bad magnet. Twice.
The wires come from the front of the trailer as #12 wire, one each blue and white, encased in a grey sheath. Blue is from the controller signal and white is neutral. Once it gets into the belly it somehow turns into light gauge wire to the wheels. I would drop the under belly and look for that wire. From where it reduces I would change it out to #12 all the way back including the run through the axles.
I know of no wiring diagram for these trailers. You just have to trace wires.
I found a way to avoid all the electrical, mechanical and assorted stopping issues. I installed disc brakes.

Peace
Dave

 

[TeJay]

Hardrocker,
I don't know what you meant when you said that you were going to go out and AGGRESSIVELY burnish your brakes. I hope you didn't try and do as the Lippert tech said. As far as the wiring, what porthole said is correct concerning the amperage. Amperage is what does the work. The higher the amperage the greater electrical work is being done. The factory would not install wiring that can't handle the current. Installing thicker wire won't hurt but is it necessary for the system to function properly??? I don't think so. If, for some reason you installed stronger magnets, and I don't know if that's possible, then yes the stronger magnets would require more current and heavier gauge wire. I hope it works out for you but I'll repeat what I said before. Grease soaked shoes and or drums (if that did happen to your system) must be replaced. You can't remove the grease no matter how many times you wash them. If the existing shoes have become overheated and glazed then they must be replaced. Overheated shoes (smoking them) crystalizes the bonding agent used to glue the brake material together. That crystalized surface does not create the necessary friction needed to work as a good braking material. Purchase shoes from a good parts house and request the highest grade they offer. I most always use NAPA or some good parts house that has to be careful about their reputation. Proper shoe adjustment is necessary so the shoes don't have to travel very far to make contact with the rotating drum. You want them adjusted just shy of making contact with the rotating drum.
Best of luck with your problem.
TeJay

 

[Willym]

IIRC, the resistance of each magnet is about 4 ohms. Thus the resistance of the complete circuit (4 magnets in parallel) will be approximately 1 ohm. Your 1.2 ohms sounds about right. At 12 volts, you'll get 3 amps per magnet, or 12 amps in total. The fault that the brake controller is seeing could be intermittent, or could be in the truck or the connector. "Aggressively" burnishing the brakes could heat the magnets and induce a fault.

I went out to aggresively burnish my brakes. Early in the process my brake controller indicated "Trailer Electrical Fault", and I wound up with even less braking than before. The Ford manual says that there is either a short to ground in the braking circuit. I put the ohm meter between the blue and ground wires. The resistance is only 1.2 ohms, when I believe the spec is 2.8 to 3 ohms. I am now in the process of trying to figure out where the braking wires are shorted.

Does anyone know of a wiring diagram for the camper?

I was surprised how thin the wire on the braking circuit is. It can't be much more than 16 gage.

 

[Hardrocker]

I did not keep the brakes energized until they started to smoke, but I did apply them for about 10 seconds with a 30 second pause between applications at a steady 50 mph. I have a non-contract thermometer, and stopped the unit after about 12 miles. The drum temperatures ranged from 300 to 450 degrees F. The left rear and right front were the hottest. I checked the adjustment after returning home and found them just a couple of clicks looser than when I started.

I took the R and L rear brakes out of the circuit by cutting the wires at the left rear wheel. The brake controller then did not find a fault. I re-connected the two rear brakes and the trailer wiring fault reappeared. I disconnected the Left rear magnet and the wiring fault message did not come back.

I removed the LR wheel and drum. An ohm meter on the two magnet wires erratically indicated .2 to 6 ohms resistance as I wobbled and slid the magnet. I have a new backing plate (Dexter) coming.

The brake shoe was not glazed, but it appeared to be well worn. Given the lack of braking that I have experienced since the dealer worked on this a year ago, and the fact that it has gone less than 3,000 miles since then, I am inclined to believe that the dealer did not replace the backing plates a year ago as he claimed. However, the backing plate I removed was made in China, so maybe he did -- or the factory saved a few dollars a wheel by installing the cheapest crap they could find.

What kind of elecrical connections are used by the factory at the wheels? I intend to solder these when I reassemble the unit.

 

[Willym]

My rig has the press in 3M connectors. These are filled with a sealant to keep moisture out. Soldering should be OK, but I'd seal the joint inside some heat shrink sleeving to keep moisture out. You can also get crimp butt connectors that come inside a heat shrink sleeve. I guess that makes it a "ready to heat" connector.

.

I did not keep the brakes energized until they started to smoke, but I did apply them for about 10 seconds with a 30 second pause between applications at a steady 50 mph. I have a non-contract thermometer, and stopped the unit after about 12 miles. The drum temperatures ranged from 300 to 450 degrees F. The left rear and right front were the hottest. I checked the adjustment after returning home and found them just a couple of clicks looser than when I started.

I took the R and L rear brakes out of the circuit by cutting the wires at the left rear wheel. The brake controller then did not find a fault. I re-connected the two rear brakes and the trailer wiring fault reappeared. I disconnected the Left rear magnet and the wiring fault message did not come back.

I removed the LR wheel and drum. An ohm meter on the two magnet wires erratically indicated .2 to 6 ohms resistance as I wobbled and slid the magnet. I have a new backing plate (Dexter) coming.

The brake shoe was not glazed, but it appeared to be well worn. Given the lack of braking that I have experienced since the dealer worked on this a year ago, and the fact that it has gone less than 3,000 miles since then, I am inclined to believe that the dealer did not replace the backing plates a year ago as he claimed. However, the backing plate I removed was made in China, so maybe he did -- or the factory saved a few dollars a wheel by installing the cheapest crap they could find.

What kind of elecrical connections are used by the factory at the wheels? I intend to solder these when I reassemble the unit.

 

[Hardrocker]

Dave, I agree with you. We have decided to trade up to a larger 5th wheel, so will leave the electric brakes on the Sundance, but will not hesitate to go disks on the new unit if braking performance does not meet expectations.

Where did you mount the electric/hydraulic pump?

I found a way to avoid all the electrical, mechanical and assorted stopping issues. I installed disc brakes.

Peace
Dave

 

[porthole]

I intend to solder these when I reassemble the unit.

I would skip the solder and use marine grade butt connectors (Ancor brand) and adhesive lined shrink tubing.

 

[Hardrocker]

I replaced the left rear backing plate assembly and got rid of the "Trailer Electrical Fault". Today we will be looking at Keystone Alpines, which probably have the same inadequate braking systems.

 

[Hardrocker]

Good Deal! A local Keystone dealer has agreed to take this Heartland product in trade on a new Montana. I am about to be relieved of this Sundance.

The Montana's brakes are burnished at the factory, rather than relying on some 3rd party transporter to burnish them.

 

[jnbhobe]

The Montana's brakes are burnished at the factory, rather than relying on some 3rd party transporter to burnish them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah right!!

 

[danemayer]

Good Deal! A local Keystone dealer has agreed to take this Heartland product in trade on a new Montana. I am about to be relieved of this Sundance.

Hardrocker, Hope your travels go well in your new rig, even if it is another brand.