Broke Down in Tillamook, OR;Camping in Les Schwab

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jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
I have talked to several other persons who own SOBs and have also had spring problems with springs supplied by Lippert. Maybe it is the manufacturer of the springs. Maybe it is time Lippert look for another supplier. We also need to remember that China is a developing country and therefore many of their products are still subpar to ours. I have a relative who has to travel to China to do quality control on their Chinese made products. He has told me they bribe officials there to pass their products knowing their are inferior. He has even be offered bribes and reported them. Whey not make the products in the USA where we have the expertise and more control. My opnion...now I am off my soap box.
 

TXBobcat

Fulltime
Jarhead
Was the weight you stated the weight on the axles or did you disconnect the trailer from the TV and have it weighed?. If it is the weight on the axles you need to add the pin weight to get the total trailer weight.
 

Jarhead

USMC Phantom Phixer
TXBobcat - As per the attendants instructions, I dropped the trailer on the scale, disconnected the TV and moved the TV off of the scale leaving only the trailer, including the landing gear, on the scale.
Bob - Chilliwack, BC, Canada
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
You guys and gals got me worried. I just bought a new Big horn 3370RL and was concerned about overweight, tires and suspension after reading this thread. I unloaded everything except for the 2 full propane thirty pound bottles and had the unit weighed on a commercial scale. The gross weight is 8906 Lbs.
I was given 3 Big Horn brochures by my dealer and each one of them lists the dry weight differently for the 3370RL. One states Dry Weight as 10,635 Lbs, another lists the Dry Weight as 10,900 Lbs and the third one lists the Dry Weight as 11,100 Lbs.
I know that product information differs according to serial numbers, but that's a huge difference and I have no reason to doubt the commercial scale reading.
Any comment would be appreciated.
Bob - Chilliwack, BC, Canada
Jarhead, the number you said, "8906" for a gross weight has to be incorrect. Your GVWR should be somewhere in between 14,000 and 14,800# Your Dry weight can vary within all of the numbers you stated and is usually more than published in brochures. Some options are not included in brochure weights. Depending on the year of your trailer, there may be a sticker on the outside of your trailer right next to the VIN sticker. It should tell you the allowable cargo carrying capacity of your trailer. This number, subtracted from your GVRW, should be your dry weight, less any LP and water you have on board.
 

Edd and Janet

Active Member
Did you attend the Heartland Rally in Goshen. I'm just wondering if the springs were checked there and then this happened to you. This sounds like one of your worst nightmares.
 

geeksrus

Well-known member
Maybe we on the Forum are not in on all of the discussions that MIGHT be happening between Heartland and Lippert on this matter, but since we do not know of any recalls happening, I think it is the duty of anyone who has experienced these suspension failures to try to protect the rest of the public by reporting these instances to the National Highway Safety Administration.
A link to the submission form is on this webpage:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

I recently had the problem (see my post of 3 weeks ago). Glad you posted the NHSA site. I hope they pay attention with my scenario as I'm in Canada.

Eh!
 

Jarhead

USMC Phantom Phixer
Ray,
I guess I didn't explain my weight issue very well. I'm not commenting about GVWR which is 14,000 lbs. for this unit. My query is about Dry Weight.
The Heartland Brochure for the 3370RL Big Horn states that the Dry Weight is 10,635lbs., or 10,900 lbs., or 11,100 lbs., depending on specifications.
I had my new 2009 3370RL Big Horn weighed at a commercial scale and it's Dry Weight is 8906 lbs. (This includes 2 full propane bottles.)
That is quite a discrepency, which I must say I'm very happy with. I was just wondering if anyone else had had their unit weighted before loading it (Dry Weight) and what where their results.
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
Jarhead, when you weighed your rig, were you unhitched? Your 8906# sounds like a hitched up weight.

Peace
Dave
 

Ray LeTourneau

Senior Member - Past Moderator
Jarhead, when you weighed your rig, were you unhitched? Your 8906# sounds like a hitched up weight.

Peace
Dave
I bet Dave is on to something here. My original scale weight on the axles, totally empty was 9260#. That's just the weight of the axles. (Wow, have we put on a few pounds!) My pin weight for that episode was 2180# totalling 11440#. This was on a landfill scale so it's accuracy is questionable but it should be pretty close. I have at least one heavy option that increased the dry weight. Dual Pane windows. LP was full also. So Jarhead, is your 8906# just the axles? Bet it is!;)
 

Larryheadhunter

X-Rookies Still Luving it
Hey you'all, we are on our second to last stop before home and I haven't had wifi reception to answer some of the questions.

The axles are still 6,000 lbs. Lippert spent $506 on parts, including two shock absorbers, 4 sets of leaf springs (4 in a pack), Ubolts, and whatever else was twisted up. Les Swhab in Tillamook, OR is not the safest place and I wish I had listened to my gun toting buds advice. I would have felt much safer just in case u get holed up at the edge of a small town.
All I was saying was it is alot more bouncy than it was before, enough that my rear entertainment 42" LCD fell behind the frame, and is now propped up after I had to take part the nice wood trimmings next to tv off to gain access and really see how they support those TV's. It's not pretty and is sad, very poor foundation. 2 L shaped hooks and 2 pieces of wood nailed in under the bottom that pulled out.

I can't send pics now but do have several in my camera. There was one leaf left when it broke, the one that is part of the attachment to the wheel. The only shocks were broken in the inside next to the bolt, which was twisted diagnally. The rear driver tire was burning rubber as the frame was resting on it creating tremendous smoke and pressure. I am just wondering why they changed out all the springs and not increasing the axles to 7K, considering the first question Lippert asked was I overweight? I posted my weights last yr on the forum so he just okeyd the whole job. not even suggesting to move us up us to 7K but it would be safer. Wonder why it feels like a bouncing betty back there? When we installed the G614's it was like butter. Now its bouncy but not chucking. It's wierd.
I never checked the distance between the original spring tires and the frame, but there is only 2 or 3 fingers between them now. Heavy bounce could produce tire hitting and rubbing frame. I am concerned. Buellton is the final stop in preparation of running the socal rally there in november. Then home after 51 days on the road with 19 stops.
What if we had Mission E rated tires? What if it happened 5 minutes earlier on a winding, no barrier road with a cliff below? I think whoever wrote about sending that info to the feds is spot on and i will send them my pics. Lippert needs to increase their axle weight for 15,00 rigs at 6K pounds. And I am not being the least bit melodramatic either.
Thats the latest. Hope the rig stays in one piece over the next5 days.
Keep your fingers crossed.
Thanks to everyone for their comments.
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
Larry...we had the same "bouncy" sensation when Lippert changed our springs from 7K to 8K. I don't think it will cause you problems with the frame or axles, it only seems to bounce things around inside the unit.

We had to batten everything down better, strap cabinets closed, put things away that we never used to, etc. I will say that it did seem to settle out some after we put some miles on it, and adding the Trailair Centerpoint took the rest of the bounce out. I know that's not an option for everyone, however, just wanted you to know I don't think being "oversprung" will cause any real damage, just makes it rough on the china, LOL, etc....:)
 

Larryheadhunter

X-Rookies Still Luving it
Hi Ken,
What is TrailAir Centerpoint? Sounds like something we would be interested in. We are putting cardboard reinforcement behind the TV today so that hopefully it will stay put until we get home, but the DW was not a happy camper with the mess everywhere as well. Why do new springs behave that way? They are no different then their replacements. And is it worth it to go to Lippert and make a case for 7K axles? I can't imagine how much more "bouncy" it would be with 5 leaf springs along with the heavier axles.
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
From Trailair's website (link)

Center Point Suspension
The revolutionary new Trailair Center Point Suspension gives new meaning to comfort for standard leaf spring suspensions. The enhanced dampening and equalization permits the axles to work together, not oppose each other like standard spring suspensions.
Moving to an air ride for trailers with leaf springs has never been so easy or so reasonably priced.

Experience the Benefits of the Center Point Suspension System

  • Greatly improved ride quality which relieves stress to the total trailer.
  • Complete load equalization.
  • Greatly reduced side to side swaying of trailer.
  • Optimum braking efficiency.
  • Longer tire and brake life.
  • Minimal maintenance required.
  • Dramatic improvement in tow vehicle ride and passenger comfort.
  • Protection of RV structure and contents.
  • System mounts completely under the trailer frame and skirting.
What Does It Fit?
Center Point adapts to both tandem and tri-axle* double-eye leaf spring suspensions.

Center Point installs into the existing center frame hanger, shown above, utilizing the pivot bolt hole of the standard toggle/equalizer combined with lateral stiffing plates that bolt in the perpendicular direction to increase stability. Refer to the application page for more details.

* Some additional mounting components are provided for the tri-axle version and specific hangers sizes as well as settings are required.

How Does It Work?
link

Once again, GREAT!! We know it... but let us explain it in more detail. As the trailer is pulled by the tow vehicle, the tires recieve all the input from the road and transfers this input into the leaf springs. This force and motion is transferred into each end of the leaf spring. The majority of this force and motion is working its way to the center because that is the path of least resistance through the spring to the center shackles. This in turn causes the shafts of Center Point to rotate, thus expanding and contracting the horizontally mounted air spring. It is at this moment that the force and motion is absorbed and dampened without being dissapated into the frame of the trailer. In addition, a lot of movement by the tires and axles only minimally affects the frame of the trailer and everything above it. Result, a much better performing suspension system and a much smother ride.

See how the Components of the Center Point Suspension help to stabilize your trailer.
 

Larryheadhunter

X-Rookies Still Luving it
Update:
I thought that everyone should know how poorly Lippert is handling this problem of a broken spring and a fried brand new Goodyear 614 tire that we endured this summer in Tllamook, OR, while driving at 20mph through town.

I followed M. Locke's (Lippert's warranty Represntative) instructions and sent Lippert a copy of all my invoices in late July, when we arrived home that are still unpaid. This included $225 in labor and and $315 paid by my credit card to replace my fried new Goodyear tire that was destroyed when their faulty spring shattered and the frame rested on while driving through Tillamook.

Michael informed me the reason they haven't reimbursed me is that they are waiting for me to send them the broken spring so they can determine if it is covered under warranty. WHOA! Les Scwab sent them pictures of all the broken parts when it occured and I was told they accepted these pics as proof as well as Lippert kindly one day shipping a whole new set of $506 springs and 2 shocks and U bolts. We have been home over a month, I had faxed them all invoices as instructed, and now after not receiving reimbursement, and me contacting them, I am told to send everything broken to them for examination. In fact, they want to make sure I wasn't overloaded, which I wasn't as I posted my weights on the forum last year from Las Vegas Rally, showing I was 2,000 lbs under full capacity GSWR . I had to call these people, and they just now sent me shipping labels. As some of you know, I am recovering from severe back surgery and cannot lift these heavy parts that are still in my storage compartment of my rig at the local tow yard. I had to hire someone to retrieve them, bring them to my house, and next week send their faulty, warrantied underweighted springs made in China for their inspectiona and hopeful reimbursement.
What really upset me was I was just informed that since Lippert doesn't cover the ruined new tire, which was melted by the frame riding on that tire due to the broken springs, they will only send me $69 towards the receipted $315 I paid for the new replacement Goodyear tire as a sign of good faith. That is if they determine it was a faulty factory spring. What gall!
When I responded that the ruined tire was due to their shattered faulty spring, Mr. Locke told me I had no recourse to pay for that new tire that had less than 1000 miles on it, as this is Lippert's policy, and he personally had the final say.

Soooooooooo......... I was flabbergasted. My wife and I could have been killed if this accident had happened 5 minutes earlier in the mountains approaching Tillamook, we had to spend 2 sleepless nights camping behind the Les Schwab's, our trip plans were upside down, and the cost of the tire exceeded the cost of labor for replacing our under warrantied defective springs and shocks. Meanwhile, it occurred to me that these 6K springs should have been 7K, I was 2,000 lbs under maximum weight capacity, and I was going to have to fight them for reimbursement for a valid claim.

They should have apologized for putting me in this predicament with their lousy equipment, paid my claim promptly and fully, and replaced my underweight axles with a stronger set of new 7K axles, springs and new tires. What a bunch of hooey.

Anyone have any ideas on how to proceed? Does the big company push around the little guy, and I have no recourse? Understandably I am incredibly upset not just for the costs, but for the principles of this behaviour and the fact we could have gone over the side of the mountain, been killed if this had happened just moments before. Thank you in advance.
 

jpjulian

Active Member
Have you considered a product liability lawyer? Sometimes a letter from a lawyer threatening a lawsuit or class action suit will be enough the manufacturer to cut their losses and pay the claim. Look into it, as it seems to me you have a valid issue to litigate.

Joe

fyi, I am not a lawyer...
 

Niles

Well-known member
I am no fan of lippert, that being said I do like my Bighorn, and Heartland does seem to be a very good customer friendly outfit. So I guess I would call customer service at Heartland and talk with them. I feel like they will help you out in this deal, at lease I have faith they will.None
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Have you considered a product liability lawyer? Sometimes a letter from a lawyer threatening a lawsuit or class action suit will be enough the manufacturer to cut their losses and pay the claim. Look into it, as it seems to me you have a valid issue to litigate.

Joe

fyi, I am not a lawyer...

jpjulian,

While you were only trying to answer Larry's plea for ideas and be helpful, your reply is a forum rule violation (rule 10).

I am closing this thread as such as we are not embarking on a legal discussion.

Please email or PM Larry with ideas on this one.

Thanks for understanding.

Jim Beletti
Admin
 
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