Concerns with Landmark Sequoia

[azbigfoot]

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing a very reasonably priced new 2013 Landmark Sequoia. I have a couple of concerns and was hoping for some expert thoughts/opinions. There are three problems with the rig (and other minor ones).

1) The entry door is bowed such that it can only be closed from the outside. The door touches at the top and bottom of the door frame but not in the middle. I found this problem in other threads and understand it can be repaired or replaced. The cause of the bowing is not real clear to me and any explanation would be great.

2) There is a severely bowed/warped/wavy cabinet panel on the left side of the refrigerator. The panel runs from floor to ceiling; it is not the panels on the front of the fridge but the panel next to the recliner slideout. It seems odd that this panel would be shipped like this from the factory. The dealer said the extreme summer heat can cause problems like this. Has anyone experience warping cabinet panels??

3) Eyeballing the pinbox it looks tilted. I had them put a small level on the bottom plate and it read level but it just didn't look right to me. I dad them run the autoleveler and remeasured ... still off. I didn't have a warm fuzzy feeling about the pinbox.

Any thoughts on this. How can you tell if the frame is bent? Has anyone seen new fifth wheel with a bent frame? Would a bent frame contribute to the three items above? Should I walk/run away?

Thanks, Jeff

 

[klindgren]

I'm not really qualified to answer (never stopped me before) but I would say Yes, Yes and Yes to all three questions. Sounds to me like there is a specific reason for your "very reasonably priced" unit and it probably has to do with problems with the frame. Not sure I would bite on this one.

 

[JohnDar]

I'm not really qualified to answer (never stopped me before) but I would say Yes, Yes and Yes to all three questions. Sounds to me like there is a specific reason for your "very reasonably priced" unit and it probably has to do with problems with the frame. Not sure I would bite on this one.

I would agree. It's priced to sell because it probably got damaged on the dealer's lot. If they had received it that way from the factory, it's not likely it would still be on their lot.

 

[GOTTOYS]

I can't imagine Heartland would ever send anything out that way. My guess is that something happened and the frame may have a twist in it. You may not be able to see any frame damage such as kinks or a bent section. I would pass on it. There are too many good ones to be had. Why start out with a problem?...Don

 

[Garypowell]

When I was looking at a good deal once I called Heartland with the vin and they gave me some straight answers. Granted if it were damaged and no one told them they would be in the dark too. But they would be qualified to tell you what they think of what you see.

It it also depends on what you do with the unit. We bought one once to set on a site for two years and others use them for a cabin, etc.

but out probably what bothers me the most is it seems the dealership is making excuses rather than simply telling the truth. I think I would not buy anything from them based on your story.

 

[TravelTiger]

"Severely warped bowed" may mean water damage, I really would doubt heat. We get 100+ degree summers in Texas (our rig is stored outside, on recycled asphalt in storage lot) and we do not have any warped panels! -- I have one that has a vertical split in the grain, but that is it.

Sounds like they are trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes to move the unit.

 

[kowAlski631]

Sounds like they are trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes to move the unit.

Agree totally. Just remember - if it sounds too good .......

 

[azbigfoot]

Thanks for advice I did give Heartland a call with VIN number. Unfortunately, they had nothing to share but they had already seen my post and vouched for the dealer saying they were a very, very good. They did say that they had shipped units in the past with bowed doors and are doing better QC now. Must say I really like being able to call the Heartland folks and ask questions.

 

[azbigfoot]

"Severely warped bowed" may mean water damage, I really would doubt heat. We get 100+ degree summers in Texas (our rig is stored outside, on recycled asphalt in storage lot) and we do not have any warped panels! -- I have one that has a vertical split in the grain, but that is it.

Sounds like they are trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes to move the unit.

Intriguing idea. Normal I would discount because we are in such an arid climate and would imagine shrinkage and cracking like I see most wood products. However, this summer there was absurd amounts of rain/moisture in AZ. I do recall looking at some Keystone products too and did notice one other rig with some warped paneling. Hard to imagine what type of temps it can get inside an RV when the outside temp is 118.

 

[TravelTiger]

I would insist they make the repairs before you take posession of it if you are considering this rig. Maybe get a second opinion on the pin box from someone you know that knows about 5vers? Or, can you take pics and post here?

 

[kowAlski631]

Hard to imagine what type of temps it can get inside an RV when the outside temp is 118.

Personal experience this summer pulling into 115 temps in Redding CA, internal temp was 104.

Martha

 

[azbigfoot]

So to continue with the Sequoia story I need to start from the beginning ...

In early October, DW and I went to an RV show knowing we wanted a Heartland product (Bighorn or Landmark). Came across the Sequoia that was reasonably priced (meaning there are other deals of similar price on the internet and some even lower) certainly not the lowest price I had seen. We negotiated and pointed out the three issues (door, refrig side panel, and pinbox) along with some other minor stuff to be repaired. My biggest concern was the pinbox which had the fiberglass cover on it. It was hard to tell if the pinbox was uneven or the cover. We're promised these would be dealt with to our satisfaction. Dealer indicated it would take a few weeks to get the parts and we could do our PDI in early November.

Over two weeks later (last monday) the dealer called and said it would take six weeks to get the refrig panel from Heartland. Wanted me to come pick up the unit and give it a test drive. I informed them I wanted it fixed before I took it off their lot or it was a deal breaker. I asked for the status of the door and pinbox. They didn't have one for me and it sounded like they hadn't looked at them yet. I told them I was coming to see the rig on the weekend to see what had been done (over a two hour drive to dealer). Also, spoke with Heartland and they said they could get the dealer a panel in one day. Later the dealer called back and said they would have the refrig panel installed before saturday and I told them to save the old one so I could look at it.

Fast forward to saturday. Checked out the old panel. Good news, no water damage. Bad news, don't understand why it warped (other than heat as dealer indicated). More bad news, dealer says Heartland shipped the panel in two pieces (previously was one piece). Then used wood-grained tape to hide the seam ... hokey Needless to say DW was not happy and we want a full panel. Dealer promised they would fix it. Next the entry door which would not close because of a severe bow. The door now closes but the door-frame latch was shifted as far to the outside edge as possible meaning no more adjustment. I asked about the door and was told that Heartland said it was in tolerance. Walked around and looked at several other rigs and all had slightly bowed doors but nothing as bad as on the Sequoia. I know I can fix this if it gets worse based on other posts on the forum but it was annoying.

Now for the BIG problem. I had negotiated for a Moryde pinbox and they had installed it. Good thing because the fiberglass cover was taken off. Gave me a clear view of the pinbox (see attached picture). We (my salesman who is awesome) did various measurements on the pinbox brackets and it became clear that the left side was a quarter inch lower than the right. In the picture it is easiest to see by looking at the top bolt hole in the pinbox brackets. The left side is barely covered by the fiberglass front cap and the right side is almost 1/2 covered. Note that we were able to measure to the frame taking care not to have welds influence the measurements. The dealer tech agreed there was a problem and said they would contact Lippert and get back to me on Monday or Tuesday. I asked what could be done and was said it could be in tolerance (1/4" error over 12" wide pinbox seems out of tolerance to me). I was also told the fifth wheel hitch would eliminate the problem. Not sure about this because the kingpin would always be cocked at a slight angle on level ground (most roads) and I don't know how this would impact towability or my truck.

Sorry about the lengthy post. Thoughts on this whole thing and in particular the pinbox are appreciated.

 

[TravelTiger]

I would be contacting Heartland to find answers. This dealer sounds like they are trying to do the very minimum to get this unit sold.

Feels like a car deal I went through with a car that was on the lot too long... They would hem and haw about fixing anything... They were going to be loosing money on the sale, so they weren't about to spend a technicians time on it.

Upon rereading the thread, maybe it's the front cap assembly that's off, rather than the pin box? Is the pin box level?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[azbigfoot]

I would be contacting Heartland to find answers. This dealer sounds like they are trying to do the very minimum to get this unit sold.

Feels like a car deal I went through with a car that was on the lot too long... They would hem and haw about fixing anything... They were going to be loosing money on the sale, so they weren't about to spend a technicians time on it.

Upon rereading the thread, maybe it's the front cap assembly that's off, rather than the pin box? Is the pin box level?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Put a level on the bottom plate of the pinbox. It was not level ... bubble just touching edge of the black line.

 

[danemayer]

Put a level on the bottom plate of the pinbox. It was not level ... bubble just touching edge of the black line.

Did you also put the level on the frame to see if the trailer was sitting level on the ground?

 

[azbigfoot]

Yes. I had them run the autoleveler and then checked the bottom of the front frame (below the generator/battery compartment). The frame was level.

 

[TandT]

Jeff,
IMHO, at some point you need to go with your gut feeling. If you've done as much research as you can, no matter what anyone else says you will live with your decision. It either feels right, or it doesn't. If it does go for it, if it doesn't get something that you feel good about. Trace

 

[kowAlski631]

Go with your gut. If you're not comfortable, walk away.

 

[Bob&Patty]

If you like the dealer.....just have them order a coach with the equipment you want. OH, at the same price.

 

[azbigfoot]

Thanks for the advice everyone. As mentioned by Trace I've got to be willing to live with my decision. I'm probably too picky but I ended up nixing the deal. What really worried me the most was how to explain what looks like a bent frame/pinbox when I try to sell/trade the rig later. I'm bummed because I feel like I let the dealer down. I'm still working with them as they have a few more 2013 Landmarks at reasonable prices ... just have to drive for 5 hours to look at them.

Thanks again, Jeff