Do you need it?
- Thread starter OhioJay
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MTPockets
Well-known member
Virgin, Utah. Site of this years' May Rally. In May 2000, a law was passed which required every homeowner to keep and maintain a firearm. This was highlighted in Michael Moore's 2002 film Bowling for Columbine. Exceptions to this law include "the mentally ill, convicted felons, conscientious objectors and people who cannot afford to own a gun". I like it.
That's what's nice about America and those who have defended it. They gave you the freedom to make that choice.
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Autumnspell
Member
FYI, I bet that works well in Canada. My wife and I were taking a leisurely drive through the North Carolina countryside near a town called Manly. As we were just cresting a small hill, I saw a small car being driven by a terrified female. On the hood of her car, spread eagled and screaming at her through the windshield was a man. He was holding on for all he was worth and he was ****ed.
I made a U turn and followed the car. My wife and I caught up with the pair at an abandoned filing station. The man was standing in front of the ladies car and she looked too scared to think. I pulled up close but still at a safe distance and called 911. The operator who answered the phone politely told me that the police didn't answer 911. She asked where I was located but I couldn't answer because I was not from North Carolina.
She told me to hang up and call the sheriff but wouldn't give me the phone number. THIS IS A TRUE STORY.
Finally, I simply pulled my 45 out and let go with the slide. The moron got the message and backed off and the lady safely sped away.
Had I waited for a cop or fumbled around trying t figure out exactly where I was who knows what that out come might have been.
As my wife and I pulled away the goof flipped us off. Just proves Darwin wrong
danemayer
Well-known member
Some government statistics on violent crime:
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA, STATISTICS CANADA WEBSITE
UNITED STATES - FBI STATISTICS
No doubt there are some differences in methodologies that keep this from being a precise comparison. Nevertheless it's about a 3:1 ratio. Probably not entirely explained by different methodologies.
Draw your own conclusions.
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA, STATISTICS CANADA WEBSITE
UNITED STATES - FBI STATISTICS
No doubt there are some differences in methodologies that keep this from being a precise comparison. Nevertheless it's about a 3:1 ratio. Probably not entirely explained by different methodologies.
Draw your own conclusions.
jcarnevale
Well-known member
To All:
These firearm threads always get interesting. They often reveal deficiencies in knowledge and thought process regarding the huge responsibility carrying a firearm brings with it. This post is not intended to belittle anyone (I would love to camp with all of you, it would be the safest campground around).
Your concealed carry license is not your permit to be a hero. Most state and federal firearm laws are very clear when it comes to using deadly force (that's a subject for debate in another thread but I digress). With that said, part of the responsibility of carrying around a firearm is to know when and how to use it justifiably. Justifiably, is the mindset side of this equation. It's not just punching holes in a paper target at the range. One must have a clear understanding in the use of that weapon before you carry it. Understanding the use of deadly force in having an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death or great bodily harm to yourself or another individual (family member) will occur, and being able to articulate that clearly to your lawyer (NOT THE POLICE) is part of the responsibility you have as a responsibly armed citizen. Brandishing a firearm to prevent theft, if not personally threatened is a dicey proposition at best. Getting involved in a perceived domestic dispute is also not recommended.
Read the above post with this in mind: The man on the hood of the car was a Federal Agent trying to apprehend a convicted felon trying to flee, the bystander just pointed a weapon at a federal officer and is now an accomplice for letting the criminal get away.....
If you have a concealed carry license, I highly recommend you seek training that includes the fighting mindset that is required to think clearly under stress and make good decisions when you find yourself "needing" that weapon.
Jay
Oathkeeper
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
A place I worked 12 years ago had a 9mm under each cash register . . .
A City Of Denver police officer was in after we helped catch a bad guy . . .
When he was informed by the owner of the business that we had a gun under each cash register, he told us that if we had to use the gun to stop a robbery that we should shoot to kill . . .
Otherwise, the robber would have more rights than those of the victims.
Interesting . . . hmmmmm!
A City Of Denver police officer was in after we helped catch a bad guy . . .
When he was informed by the owner of the business that we had a gun under each cash register, he told us that if we had to use the gun to stop a robbery that we should shoot to kill . . .
Otherwise, the robber would have more rights than those of the victims.
Interesting . . . hmmmmm!
dave10a
Well-known member
It is a personal call if a gun is needed. I have not carried one for the past 15 years-- except when fishing in grizzly country, and have never felt the need for one. I suppose it depends on how paranoid you are or if you frequent crime dangerous areas. My need for gun dissipated since I got out of the military 
In my humble opinion, people have guns, yet society is not polite. Even if every person had a gun and carried, crime will still happen. The problem is not how many people carry, but with the social-economic difference that our country has, that a lot of other "westernized" countries that have strict gun laws do not have.
In addition, a lot of posts have tried to compare having a "tool" that you might never need to fix your rig, to a gun that you may never need is a very poor comparision. If you need a tool, you have plenty of time to analyze the situation and determine the best way to use it, but if you are in a situation that you need a gun you might have only seconds to make a potentially life or death decision (assuming you are always carrying and you don't keep your gun in the RV or tow).
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Heathcote4
Active Member
I appreciate the perspective it is logical to understand that most individuals that wish to harm will target areas where they will be met with the least resistance.
The last handful of tragic events were ended when the coward assailants were met with force they ended their own lives. Better to deter the intent before it takes place.
Josh
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Shortest Straw
Caught In A Mosh
It is a personal call if a gun is needed. I have not carried one for the past 15 years-- except when fishing in grizzly country, and have never felt the need for one. I suppose it depends on how paranoid you are or if you frequent crime dangerous areas. My need for gun dissipated since I got out of the military
Paranoid? Using words like that is a cheap shot at those of us who feel it is smart to carry. I am ex military as well and have many friends still who carry also who are ex military so what is your point with that?? I dont mind that certain folks are against me carrying and would love to make sure my guns are taken away from me. I do not mind being labeled by these uneducated people as a criminal or psycho in the making or a criminal candidate. It seems that labeling things you are afraid or or disagree with is the way of our nations people these days to make them feel better about how they feel about certain things. Paranoid? No way, you can keep that. I am curious though to know if you have a crime predicting method to keep you safe. There are so many folks out there who would benefit from it. From elderly couple in the middle of nowhere Nebraska, to the mass shootings in the big city. Lastly, do you really believe that crime only happens in "frequent crime dangerous areas"?
superduty08
Tennessee Chapter Leaders
A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you will never need it again!
Grey Ghost
Well-known member
Not until you really need it!!
rockhounders
Member
A friend sent me this and I think it says it all.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I enjoy reading this thread. There are so many issues that are not understood and inconsistencies abound. The number of myths are staggering.
One thing that I read that really scares the heck out of me, and that is about the police officer that said that one should shoot to kill. This is the most insane instruction I have ever heard. A police officer that said something like this is very unprofessional and downright wrong and I question his morality. The use of deadly force, is just that, deadly force, it is not killer force. Given certain circumstances a person may use deadly force to STOP someone from doing what he/she is doing, once the threat is removed deadly force is no longer authorized. It is called deadly force because one is likely to die when the force is applied against him/her. PERIOD!!!!! Shoot to stop not to kill. PERIOD!!!!!
Generally speaking the use of deadly force is authorized where the shooter fears for loss of life, or grievous bodily harm, for himself, or an innocent third party.
One thing that I read that really scares the heck out of me, and that is about the police officer that said that one should shoot to kill. This is the most insane instruction I have ever heard. A police officer that said something like this is very unprofessional and downright wrong and I question his morality. The use of deadly force, is just that, deadly force, it is not killer force. Given certain circumstances a person may use deadly force to STOP someone from doing what he/she is doing, once the threat is removed deadly force is no longer authorized. It is called deadly force because one is likely to die when the force is applied against him/her. PERIOD!!!!! Shoot to stop not to kill. PERIOD!!!!!
Generally speaking the use of deadly force is authorized where the shooter fears for loss of life, or grievous bodily harm, for himself, or an innocent third party.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
Here's my bottom line. If I feel i need to draw my weapon, I will be trying to kill you, emptying the magazine while in fear for my life. No warning shots, no trying to wound you, no trying to temporiarly stop you so you can try to sue me. Don't like that? Don't make me fear for my life.
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Jim.Allison
Well-known member
YUP!!!!!! perverts like to be around little league baseball and Boy Scouts. I live in a very nice part of San Antonio, but on Christmas Eve this past year a weirdo knifed and killed an innocent woman in a city park, adjacent to my neighborhood. Killers like city parks, especially when they are empty. She was visiting from out of town and went for a jog. I dont know if she wished she had a gun before she died but, i wish she would have had a gun, I would have much preferred reading about the perp than reading about the victim.
RV'rs have money and the rig says so, it says you are going somewhere and you got the money and the goods to get there. You have a big red X on your back. The X means "victim." The bad guys, and there are a lot of them, are good at what they do, so good infact they can take us at anytime if we are not alert. I'm talking about the petty stuff at this point. The real bad stuff is out there too. There are psychopaths among you, when you leave your neighborhood you leave a few behind but when you get onto the interstate you are traveling with some of the worst criminal element that has ever existed, they are ruthless and desperate. The only thing that keeps them in check is the fact that if they stick their head up they will go straight to jail because of parole or probation violation. Keep thinking that you are safe but your day is coming when you bump into one of these weirdos that has just taken a hit off a crack pipe, or some lunatic on steroids. While using your words is a good thing and it will work, there are times when using your words only inflames the problem. Think about this when you are traveling in a part of the country that I'm familiar with, LA to Dallas, and LA to Chicago, the Denver area, and anywhere on I-10, and many other routes taken by modern day Bonnie and Clyde types.
When you pull into an RV park you may be just a stones throw from a bunch of off grid junkies just one dirt road over, and they have a trail through the brush leading right up to your rig. If you don't know this, then you are blind to your environment. I know you have a good heart and you think that everyone is good, but that is a myth. And you won't know it is a myth until it is too late. BTW, there are a lot of these type people living in RV parks. So when you are befriending someone make sure that they tell a coherent story about where they come from before you get mixed up with them.
I do not carry a handgun nor do I advocate it, If it is not right for you i respect that too, but anecdotal evidence such as "I have never needed it" and "you are paranoid" only shows how little you know about your environment. Next time you are on an interstate ask a trooper what kind of perpetrators he meets on the road.
Me, I carry a great weapon, in fact I carry 2 cans of it. Bear spray, hose em down with bear spray and you don't have to worry about losing everything you worked for your whole life to a lawsuit, and there will be a suit if you shoot someone. You may not lose, but it will cost you everything to defend yourself. And If it does not go exactly right, you might wind up in jail as a perp. Bear spray is harmless, EFFECTIVE, and completely reversible. And the can is big enough to do everyone that wants to get involved. If you ever have to use it, I highly recommend that you leave the scene, you can be 75 miles away before the perp can get off the ground to chase you. LOL.
RV'rs have money and the rig says so, it says you are going somewhere and you got the money and the goods to get there. You have a big red X on your back. The X means "victim." The bad guys, and there are a lot of them, are good at what they do, so good infact they can take us at anytime if we are not alert. I'm talking about the petty stuff at this point. The real bad stuff is out there too. There are psychopaths among you, when you leave your neighborhood you leave a few behind but when you get onto the interstate you are traveling with some of the worst criminal element that has ever existed, they are ruthless and desperate. The only thing that keeps them in check is the fact that if they stick their head up they will go straight to jail because of parole or probation violation. Keep thinking that you are safe but your day is coming when you bump into one of these weirdos that has just taken a hit off a crack pipe, or some lunatic on steroids. While using your words is a good thing and it will work, there are times when using your words only inflames the problem. Think about this when you are traveling in a part of the country that I'm familiar with, LA to Dallas, and LA to Chicago, the Denver area, and anywhere on I-10, and many other routes taken by modern day Bonnie and Clyde types.
When you pull into an RV park you may be just a stones throw from a bunch of off grid junkies just one dirt road over, and they have a trail through the brush leading right up to your rig. If you don't know this, then you are blind to your environment. I know you have a good heart and you think that everyone is good, but that is a myth. And you won't know it is a myth until it is too late. BTW, there are a lot of these type people living in RV parks. So when you are befriending someone make sure that they tell a coherent story about where they come from before you get mixed up with them.
I do not carry a handgun nor do I advocate it, If it is not right for you i respect that too, but anecdotal evidence such as "I have never needed it" and "you are paranoid" only shows how little you know about your environment. Next time you are on an interstate ask a trooper what kind of perpetrators he meets on the road.
Me, I carry a great weapon, in fact I carry 2 cans of it. Bear spray, hose em down with bear spray and you don't have to worry about losing everything you worked for your whole life to a lawsuit, and there will be a suit if you shoot someone. You may not lose, but it will cost you everything to defend yourself. And If it does not go exactly right, you might wind up in jail as a perp. Bear spray is harmless, EFFECTIVE, and completely reversible. And the can is big enough to do everyone that wants to get involved. If you ever have to use it, I highly recommend that you leave the scene, you can be 75 miles away before the perp can get off the ground to chase you. LOL.
