Electric Brakes

[danemayer]

There are millions and millions of semi's with drum brakes going 75mph down the highway everyday. if the drum brake systems were inherently unsafe they would have been changed long ago.

Old cars and semi trailers might have drum brakes, but they're nothing like the drum brakes on RVs.

On your trailer, a magnet is energized, pulling the magnet against the side of the drum. The friction pulls the mechanism that forces the shoes against the drum. While this is a clever way to do a proportional conversion of voltage to mechanical force, it's prone to a number of electrical and mechanical problems.

We always seem to worry about grease between shoes and drums, but get a little grease on the magnet, and there won't be much friction to operate the mechanism that pushes the shoes.

Over the past few days I've done quite a bit of mountain driving, including the Million Dollar Highway from Ouray to Silverton, CO. While I try to mostly rely on the engine brake and transmission, having disc brakes is a great stress reliever. I can easily stop, even on a very steep descent.

 

[Doublegranch]

While at the Alto rally...and discussing disc brakes, it was suggested to turn off the anti skid button on the ram dash...saying you will get more braking power vs the surge braking when it is on....
I gave it a try on the way back to AZ...wow what a difference, I could lock up the brakes if I wasn't careful...
So I know this isn't the answer to Disc brakes...but it sure gave me a lot more peace of mind towing the Sundance, knowing the trailer brakes really are working...before It was so slight I thought there was a problem.
The Ram defaults the anti skid to "on" every time you restart the truck...so you have to remember to hit the off button....just food for thought and a Great improvement vs what I was use to. I do need to state that while the gw on the Sundance is 13,900, I am only towing at 10,800 lbs as weighed at the Las Vegas National Rally.

 

[alexb2000]

Disc brakes are far less "complex" - the have far fewer parts and are far more reliable.
Regarding how "safe" discs are, go to performancetrailerbraking.com home page and look at the stopping tests. Bottom line is that you are incorrect - discs ALWAYS result in shorter braking distances. Regarding all those trucks, I could care less as long as disc brakes help ME stop faster.

Did you really look at the test that you say proves me wrong?

Here is the link to the actual test.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/ultimate-one-ton-hd-challenge-milford-braking.html

NOTHING they did involved hydraulic vs. electric trailer brakes. The test was empty truck, truck with electric brake controller set to 5, and truck and trailer with electric trailer brakes disconnected.

Bottom line... I could care less about the conversation, so I'll leave you experts to it.

 

[Doublegranch]

Alto Rally had one of the guys who installs Titan brakes Ron gave a nice presentation...and I asked him after the presentation if they did a comparison with regular trailer brakes and he said they did not....they only tested the the truck and then tested the combination after the Titan brakes were installed.

 

[BigGuy82]

Alto Rally had one of the guys who installs Titan brakes Ron gave a nice presentation...and I asked him after the presentation if they did a comparison with regular trailer brakes and he said they did not....they only tested the the truck and then tested the combination after the Titan brakes were installed.

Interesting. Take a look at the link below and scroll down to the chart showing disc vs drum brakes stopping a trailer without using the truck brakes.

http://www.liveworkdream.com/2016/03/02/titan-hydraulic-trailer-disc-brakes/

Says it was in the Performance Trailer Braking booth. The test on the website shows the same data but in a different way. Also, that test did show a 16k trailer with drums and truck stopping distance and the disc brakes on the trailer only still beat it by about 100'.

 

[JohnD]

Our Prowler is under 10,000 pounds and am considering the disc brakes mainly because most of our camping is done in the Rocky mountains.

I attended John's seminar (same one Garry was at) and will most likely have the disc brakes installed next year when he is at the Mountain Regional Rally in Pueblo, CO.

I have a gas engine . . . so no engine brake.

I don't really have an issue with mountain driving with the trailer in tow (since I lived here for 26 years, I know how to drive in the mountains), but I do like the idea of a much better brake when coming down the mountain.

However, city driving these days is becoming much more hazardous, and no matter how much space you try to leave between you and the vehicle in front of you, there is always a couple of @-hole drivers that need to take up that space.

Last week as we were driving through Denver on I-25 south on our way to the Alto, NM HOC Rally, some idiot in a Ford F350 came up in the right lane and forced himself between us with our 5'ver in tow and the car in front of us.

I almost had to pull over and change my BVD's!

This was at the tail end of rush hour going 20 MPH with maybe a 1/2 car length in front of us, and this idiot was going probably 50 MPH in the lane to the right of us and just merged in and had I not slammed on the brakes, he would have hit my front fender.

And he had the audacity to flip me the bird (middle finger for those of you not in the know of 1970's slang ).

And he did the same thing to a couple more drivers before he pulled off at the next exit . . .

I will say that the drum brakes I have (adjusted correctly at 5.5) did the job.

Our 5'ver is a light weight model and probably is OK with the drum brakes.

And if I still lived in my home state of Michigan I probably wouldn't even consider the disc brakes as they probably wouldn't be needed.

But the added security in the mountains is a big plus!

Anyone who has pulled over Wolf Creek Pass, CO ("Over 'cross the great divide . . . truckin' on doooowwwwnnnnnn . . . the other side!") will understand.

(Notice the Ford F150 with the small trailer and the hood up and radiator steaming in the background)

 

[Lynn1130]

disc brakes on the trailer only still beat it by about 100'

That is a lot of distance when it comes to panic stops and dangers. To crash or not to crash, that is the question.

 

[BigGuy82]

That is a lot of distance when it comes to panic stops and dangers. To crash or not to crash, that is the question.

There is no question ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Desertsky]

I had a bunch of coupons for Camping World (about $70 worth) so I bought the Lippert Self Adjusting brake assemblies. Most of the original shoes were pretty worn out. On one side, the front brake adjuster and retaining spring fell out when I removed the drum! The rear one on that side had the adjuster all the way in and tight. No wonder I didn't have any brakes!

Replacement was an easy job. Just make sure you have an 11/16" socket handy for the plate nuts. I found that none of the existing nuts were very tight, at least not nearly as tight as I would install them. Bearings were in pretty good shape so they stayed in. I am only planning short trips this summer so before next year, I will have new bearings and seals put in.

Got everything adjusted and if I turn the G2 controller all the way up, I can lock the trailer wheels. Have it set at about 9V and I get a lot of braking force even at highway speeds. One thing I noticed is that everywhere I read, it is recommended to have 12ga wires leading to the brakes. The wiring on this trailer is no where near that heavy, probably 18ga.

This is not my forever trailer so the disc brake conversion is not an option for me. When my wife retires and we buy our long term live-aboard, it will be very high on the list.

 

[jakoenig1]

Did you really look at the test that you say proves me wrong?

Here is the link to the actual test.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/ultimate-one-ton-hd-challenge-milford-braking.html

NOTHING they did involved hydraulic vs. electric trailer brakes. The test was empty truck, truck with electric brake controller set to 5, and truck and trailer with electric trailer brakes disconnected.

Bottom line... I could care less about the conversation, so I'll leave you experts to it.

Lets talk about actual forces created by the truck brakes and the trailer brakes on the link in the above test. Looking at the Dodge only and assuming the truck weighs 7,000 lbs, a total weight of 23,000 lbs. The Ram stopped in 7.0 seconds with truck brakes only. This is a stopping force of 9,000 lbs. With both the truck and trailer brakes at maximum, it stopped in 5.5 seconds. This is a stopping force of 11,455 lbs. The trailer brakes on the 16,000 lb trailer are only contributing 2,455 lbs stopping force. This is pathetic and should be against the law. This is extremely close to testing on my fifth wheel trailer after 1,000 miles of break in. The 15,000 lb fifth wheel brakes were only contributing 2,200 lbs stopping power. Disc brakes are capable of stopping cars and truck at .8 g or better. For a 16,000 lb trailer in the above test, disc brakes should provide 12,800 lbs of stopping force. The electric trailer brakes only supply 20% of what disk brakes can do. Drum brakes didn't work on a 4,000 lb car. Why would you expect them to work on a 16,000 lb trailer?

 

[dave10a]

There is no question that disk brakes are superior to electric drum bakes. What is amazing is how few RV manufacturers offer disk brakes as an option. And ever fewer who offer upgraded suspensions. Hartland is missing the boat in this area. Offering these upgrades should be less expensive than after market upgrades and more responsive to customer needs.

 

[BigGuy82]

There is no question that disk brakes are superior to electric drum bakes. What is amazing is how few RV manufacturers offer disk brakes as an option. And ever fewer who offer upgraded suspensions. Hartland is missing the boat in this area. Offering these upgrades should be less expensive than after market upgrades and more responsive to customer needs.

I agree that disc brakes should be more universally offered as options. In fact, I think they should be standard, but good luck with that.

Right now, the RV industry is quite robust, with manufacturers selling all that they can produce. My guess is that if Heartland offered discs as an option, the bottom line impact would be minuscule. The good news is that RVer's have many economical after market choices. When I was shoppoing for a new fiver, those brands that offered optional discs charged more for that than I could do the upgrade for.

 

[dave10a]

Unfortunately this may be correct because those RV mfg order their axles with electric brakes and they convert them at their facility. However, if they ordered their axels with disk brakes and other suspension improvements they would not need to convert them while discarding the replaced hardware and that SHOULD be a cost savings over after market add-ons.

 

[BigGuy82]

Unfortunately this may be correct because those RV mfg order their axles with electric brakes and they convert them at their facility. However, if they ordered their axels with disk brakes and other suspension improvements they would not need to convert them while discarding the replaced hardware and that SHOULD be a cost savings over after market add-ons.

I'm not sure. For instance, Dexter makes their axles with both electric and disc brakes. I don't know if, when a disc setup is offered as an option by the manufacturer, they order the desired setup from Dexter or if they just use what they have on the shelf.

At any rate, I did my own upgrade for $1,750 (two axles). If I wanted it installed, Ron Russell would have sent an installation crew to my home and installed them for $1,000. I seem to remember (and it's been a while) that any manufacturers who offered discs as options wanted well over $3K.

 

[JohnD]

It was mentioned at the NM Rally earlier this month that you get a much better and cleaner disc brake install by crews that that is all they do, vs. from the factory where you never know who might be working that line the day your trailer rolls through.

With high employment turnover in the factory, this could be a major issue.

 

[danemayer]

So, $2750 for Titan installed by Performance Trailer Braking. $3200 MSRP from Heartland. To make it even, your dealer would have to discount the option price by 14%. Doesn't sound impossible.

 

[BigGuy82]

So, $2750 for Titan installed by Performance Trailer Braking. $3200 MSRP from Heartland. To make it even, your dealer would have to discount the option price by 14%. Doesn't sound impossible.

I agree with JohnD. I'd rather have the guys from Performance do the job. That's all they do every day - my guess is that thier install is better than the factory.

Of course, I installed my own, so that is clearly the BEST installation!

 

[Thunderbolt]

One of the most over looked items in Maintenance is the adjustment of trailer drum brakes. Our new Cyclone came with Dexter Nav-R-Adjust brakes. Granted disk brakes are the best out there at this point in time, but you can do a lot to keep the drum brakes working at full capacity. The brakes need adjustment at least every 3000 miles. Sooner if you use them a lot. Have them inspected when you do the axle bearing lube. Right now, I can not afford to install disk brakes on our trailer. It is something in the future. So I take care of what I have.

Louisiana has some of the best drivers to test your reflexes, see if you are paying attention and keep your heart rate up. Heart rate going down? Someone will drive the wrong way on the interstate to help you out!

 

[BigGuy82]

One of the most over looked items in Maintenance is the adjustment of trailer drum brakes. Our new Cyclone came with Dexter Nav-R-Adjust brakes. Granted disk brakes are the best out there at this point in time, but you can do a lot to keep the drum brakes working at full capacity. The brakes need adjustment at least every 3000 miles. Sooner if you use them a lot. Have them inspected when you do the axle bearing lube. Right now, I can not afford to install disk brakes on our trailer. It is something in the future. So I take care of what I have.

Louisiana has some of the best drivers to test your reflexes, see if you are paying attention and keep your heart rate up. Heart rate going down? Someone will drive the wrong way on the interstate to help you out!

Mutually exclusive words/terms:

Central Intelligence, RV Quality, EZ-Lube, NevR-Adjust ...

 

[brianlajoie]

I was at MORryde the last two day and saw 3 DRV / Mobile Suites and 1 Heartland fifth wheels straight from the factory (not finished yet) having IS / DB installed. Don't believe the factory does this. Will have to ask when we go on the factory tour. Two cost items to consider when the trailer gets disc brakes: the mark up over cost and the time and expense of pulling the trailer out of the factory and sending it across town to have them installed.