I think you should be fine. The travel cant be much difference with just 1/2 inch per axle difference. The shackles are designed to allow the travel when one axel is higher/lower than the other. the equalizer does just that. We have built a lot of trailers in the old days and have used both spacing with inter mixed parts due to what we salvaged from other rigs. Never a problem.
Factory incorrect spring hanger spacing
- Thread starter goldbrick
- Start date
dave10a
Well-known member
I am surprised that Heartland would not cover this factory defect. You should kick this up to the management layer of Heartlan. I doubt you will hear back from the NTSB soon or even in your life time. I would simply tuck this event in the back of your mind untill you purchase the next RV.
danemayer
Well-known member
Ok, let's summarize: the defect was that the Dexter Rubber Biscuit cracked. Dexter replaced it and the Customer Service rep said that the rubber issue may have been caused by hanger spacing not meeting Dexter specifications.
Again, I'd suggest first pursuing this further with Dexter - ask them to set up a 3-way call with one of their suspension engineers. The person in customer service is no doubt helpful, but is almost certainly not an engineer. It's Dexter's suspension system, rubber biscuits, and their axles. Ask them for their best engineering opinion about whether the spacing matters enough that you need to get it changed. Before worrying about who's paying, find out if it really needs to be done.
IF a Dexter engineer goes on the record with you that it needs to be corrected, then you have something real to discuss with Heartland when it comes time to work on the "who pays" part of the problem.
Whether they choose to fix it on their dime is still an open question for various reasons. But you can be certain they're not going pay to fix something they don't think is a problem.
Again, I'd suggest first pursuing this further with Dexter - ask them to set up a 3-way call with one of their suspension engineers. The person in customer service is no doubt helpful, but is almost certainly not an engineer. It's Dexter's suspension system, rubber biscuits, and their axles. Ask them for their best engineering opinion about whether the spacing matters enough that you need to get it changed. Before worrying about who's paying, find out if it really needs to be done.
IF a Dexter engineer goes on the record with you that it needs to be corrected, then you have something real to discuss with Heartland when it comes time to work on the "who pays" part of the problem.
Whether they choose to fix it on their dime is still an open question for various reasons. But you can be certain they're not going pay to fix something they don't think is a problem.
brianharrison
Well-known member
I like your answer Dan.
I have been following this one closely. Why? Because I just changed out the LCI Equi-Flex to the Dexter EZ-Flex. My reasons for doing so is because I beleive the Dexter product is better made - cast vs steel plate; my LCI equalizer was bending due to sideways forces when I backed into my RV parking at my house (see attached pics). Nothing really extreme for forces but I was worried the LCI may fail while I was on the road.
I am not a Dexter suspension Engineer, but I am an engineer and have some knowledge of vectors, angles and forces. I did not like the amount of dynamic loading on the OEM suspension, hence the suspension upgrade. As well I have a good buddy who has worked 12 years at a reputable spring/suspension/large tractor trailer service shop and has seen 1000's of trailer suspensions, repairs etc. He has seen quite a few failures and has seen a number of EquiFlex come in broken. His experience on Dexter EX-Flex is more favorable (fewer seen failures).
I have an early 2011 Landmark GC, dual Lippert 7000# axles (April 2010 manufacture date). The hanger spacing is 29.75"; not 29.5 or 30.5. The drop shackles allow the some variation in spacing. The spread (distance between the drop shackle holes) for the LCI and the Dexter equalizer (loaded and static) when on my trailer are identical at 7.75". The Dexter tolerances as outlined on their eng drawings shows 7.25 to 8.25. I was not able to find the LCI spread tolerances.
As well, I upgraded springs, relocated the shock mounting points to move shock more vertical, and a few more upgrades (NeverFail bushings, new hardware, repack). For my piece of mind.
I respect the Original Poster's situation and his opinion; I am just not sure of the basis of the argument of hanger spacing contributing to the failure. I will moniter my new installation and report back if I see issues.
Brian
I have been following this one closely. Why? Because I just changed out the LCI Equi-Flex to the Dexter EZ-Flex. My reasons for doing so is because I beleive the Dexter product is better made - cast vs steel plate; my LCI equalizer was bending due to sideways forces when I backed into my RV parking at my house (see attached pics). Nothing really extreme for forces but I was worried the LCI may fail while I was on the road.
I am not a Dexter suspension Engineer, but I am an engineer and have some knowledge of vectors, angles and forces. I did not like the amount of dynamic loading on the OEM suspension, hence the suspension upgrade. As well I have a good buddy who has worked 12 years at a reputable spring/suspension/large tractor trailer service shop and has seen 1000's of trailer suspensions, repairs etc. He has seen quite a few failures and has seen a number of EquiFlex come in broken. His experience on Dexter EX-Flex is more favorable (fewer seen failures).
I have an early 2011 Landmark GC, dual Lippert 7000# axles (April 2010 manufacture date). The hanger spacing is 29.75"; not 29.5 or 30.5. The drop shackles allow the some variation in spacing. The spread (distance between the drop shackle holes) for the LCI and the Dexter equalizer (loaded and static) when on my trailer are identical at 7.75". The Dexter tolerances as outlined on their eng drawings shows 7.25 to 8.25. I was not able to find the LCI spread tolerances.
As well, I upgraded springs, relocated the shock mounting points to move shock more vertical, and a few more upgrades (NeverFail bushings, new hardware, repack). For my piece of mind.
I respect the Original Poster's situation and his opinion; I am just not sure of the basis of the argument of hanger spacing contributing to the failure. I will moniter my new installation and report back if I see issues.
Brian
dave10a
Well-known member
I have the Dexter 7000 lb axles and have traveled near 6000 miles so far with my trailer. The tires don't seem to be wearing abnormally, but right side runs hotter (10-15 degrees F). I check the distance between axles and found then to be 1.25 inches different which concerns me. I think the springs are sagging on the right as compared to the left. I weighed the trailer and found the both axles are supporting 12500 lbs which is less than the 14000 lbs rating. I scheduled to have the suspension and alignment checked prior to my next trip. I also called Heartland to inform them of my concerns. My warranty runs out in Feb 2013; so if there is any problem with the bushings, springs or alignment they should be covered under warranty. I see no need to upgrade my bushing, axles, suspension or frame because the trailer is factory stock and should be able to handle the loads as advertized-- at least that is what I expect for years to come......
I for one will expect Heartland to stand behind what they advertise and so far they have for me and don't expect any hassle or obfuscation of reality. I think the original poster should be able to work his issues out with Heartland directly and should keep elevating the issue within Heartland hierarchy until he is satisfied. Sometimes that is what it takes....
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I think Dan has offered a sensible approach to this problem. I am returning to work on a deep sea tug boat in a couple days but will pursue this matter as time and available communications allow.
brianharrison
Well-known member
Take care while you're away and report back with updates when you can - I would be very interested in knowing how you make out and come to a solution that resolves your concerns.
Brian
danemayer
Well-known member
I spoke with a Dexter engineer today and got some additional information.
On 2 axle rigs, the axle/wheel spacing (center of axle to center of axle) is supposed to be 33" for 6000# axles and 35" for 7000# axles. The 33" spacing corresponds to 29.5" hanger bracket spacing and the 35" spacing corresponds to 30.5" hanger bracket spacing. The EZ-Flex suspension has a number stamped in the cast metal, visible from the outside. The standard kit for 6000# axles is 13-143. The standard kit for 7000# axles is 13-144. Also, the axles will have a label indicating whether they are 6000 or 7000# capacity.
SO, in the original post, Merton said that his hangers are at the 30.5" spacing, which is the correct spacing for two 7000# axles (two 7000# axles being what's shown on the Heartland website for the CY3010). I would conclude that unless Merton mis-stated his measurements, his rig was built correctly.
The Dexter engineer acknowledged that they had a materials problem that was causing the rubber biscuits to crack.
I've been interested in the spacing question because of some unusual wear on my Landmark suspension. The unit was built in Aug 2010, just as the switch from Lippert to Dexter took place. My 7000# axles and 13-144 EZ-Flex kit are the correct parts. But the wheel/axle spacing for 7000# should be 35". I'm at 33.25". My hanger spacing should be 30.5". It is actually at 29.75". Dexter's engineer believes this would push the shackle links into an abnormal position and not allow the EZ-Flex to work as designed. He was not prepared to describe what problems I might experience, or if the unusual wear was caused by this, but did say that to avoid problems in the future, the hanger brackets should be replaced and the new ones spaced correctly.
I've been carefully approaching this idea of replacing/respacing the brackets because my Landmark tows beautifully and the tires are wearing evenly. I don't want to get real problems in return for fixing potential problems.
But since I have to replace the worn center brackets, and Dexter is paying for an EZ-Flex upgrade with wetbolts, it's Hi Ho, Hi Ho, off to the suspension shop I go.
On 2 axle rigs, the axle/wheel spacing (center of axle to center of axle) is supposed to be 33" for 6000# axles and 35" for 7000# axles. The 33" spacing corresponds to 29.5" hanger bracket spacing and the 35" spacing corresponds to 30.5" hanger bracket spacing. The EZ-Flex suspension has a number stamped in the cast metal, visible from the outside. The standard kit for 6000# axles is 13-143. The standard kit for 7000# axles is 13-144. Also, the axles will have a label indicating whether they are 6000 or 7000# capacity.
SO, in the original post, Merton said that his hangers are at the 30.5" spacing, which is the correct spacing for two 7000# axles (two 7000# axles being what's shown on the Heartland website for the CY3010). I would conclude that unless Merton mis-stated his measurements, his rig was built correctly.
The Dexter engineer acknowledged that they had a materials problem that was causing the rubber biscuits to crack.
I've been interested in the spacing question because of some unusual wear on my Landmark suspension. The unit was built in Aug 2010, just as the switch from Lippert to Dexter took place. My 7000# axles and 13-144 EZ-Flex kit are the correct parts. But the wheel/axle spacing for 7000# should be 35". I'm at 33.25". My hanger spacing should be 30.5". It is actually at 29.75". Dexter's engineer believes this would push the shackle links into an abnormal position and not allow the EZ-Flex to work as designed. He was not prepared to describe what problems I might experience, or if the unusual wear was caused by this, but did say that to avoid problems in the future, the hanger brackets should be replaced and the new ones spaced correctly.
I've been carefully approaching this idea of replacing/respacing the brackets because my Landmark tows beautifully and the tires are wearing evenly. I don't want to get real problems in return for fixing potential problems.
But since I have to replace the worn center brackets, and Dexter is paying for an EZ-Flex upgrade with wetbolts, it's Hi Ho, Hi Ho, off to the suspension shop I go.
brianharrison
Well-known member
Hmmmm.
I just installed the 13-144 Dexter EZFlex on my 29.75 hanger spacing (dual 7000 LCI axles; early 2011 Landmark). As it sits in the driveway the axles are 34" spacing. See the picture of my suspension in the above post to see the shakle angles. I do not see a problem with the movement. Short of installing a camera under the trailer while travelling I think it will be OK.
I just pulled 750 miles and everything "looks" OK. I'll be keeping an eye on it and report back next year.
Brian
I just installed the 13-144 Dexter EZFlex on my 29.75 hanger spacing (dual 7000 LCI axles; early 2011 Landmark). As it sits in the driveway the axles are 34" spacing. See the picture of my suspension in the above post to see the shakle angles. I do not see a problem with the movement. Short of installing a camera under the trailer while travelling I think it will be OK.
I just pulled 750 miles and everything "looks" OK. I'll be keeping an eye on it and report back next year.
Brian
danemayer
Well-known member
Some additional info today. I spoke with Heartland Engineering. They agree that the correct hanger spacing for our Landmark is 30.5" and that 29.75" spacing likely contributed to the excess wear we've had on the suspension components. They also agreed that the spacing should be corrected to prevent future problems.
So with Heartland and Dexter engineering both in agreement that the spec is 30.5" and that it needs to be corrected, I'm ready to let the techs take out their torches and have a go at it. As soon as the new hangers arrive, all 6 will be removed and replaced.
So with Heartland and Dexter engineering both in agreement that the spec is 30.5" and that it needs to be corrected, I'm ready to let the techs take out their torches and have a go at it. As soon as the new hangers arrive, all 6 will be removed and replaced.
danemayer
Well-known member
The trailer shop completed work on the suspension a couple of days ago. The upgraded Dexter EZ-Flex with wetbolts looks great. Hangers are now spaced 30.5" apart and the wheel centers are now at 35". Heartland is reimbursing the cost of the hanger removal and replacement. Dexter took care of the upgraded EZ-Flex.
I thought that with the wheels off it would be a good time to inspect and repack the wheel bearings. The shop called to say that the bearings were blue, indicating heat damage. The bearings had previously been replaced 14 months ago as part of a brake repair. It took Dexter about 3 minutes to authorize warranty replacement. Excellent customer service.
I towed the rig 30 miles from Austin to Buda this morning. Everything feels normal. Camper Clinic II is replacing a cracked icemaker water line solenoid for me. I called 2 days ago and they scheduled me in for 1st thing this morning and start work a few minutes after I got there. They found the cracked solenoid and got Dometic on the phone to authorize warranty coverage and expedite shipping of the part. I should be able to take our baby home tomorrow. Excellent service.
Heartland, Dexter, Dometic and Camper Clinic II all have treated us extremely well. Of course I would have preferred if none of this had happened, but given that it did, I couldn't be happier with the way things have turned out.
I thought that with the wheels off it would be a good time to inspect and repack the wheel bearings. The shop called to say that the bearings were blue, indicating heat damage. The bearings had previously been replaced 14 months ago as part of a brake repair. It took Dexter about 3 minutes to authorize warranty replacement. Excellent customer service.
I towed the rig 30 miles from Austin to Buda this morning. Everything feels normal. Camper Clinic II is replacing a cracked icemaker water line solenoid for me. I called 2 days ago and they scheduled me in for 1st thing this morning and start work a few minutes after I got there. They found the cracked solenoid and got Dometic on the phone to authorize warranty coverage and expedite shipping of the part. I should be able to take our baby home tomorrow. Excellent service.
Heartland, Dexter, Dometic and Camper Clinic II all have treated us extremely well. Of course I would have preferred if none of this had happened, but given that it did, I couldn't be happier with the way things have turned out.
convert
Reginald Hromek
goldbrick
AS a matter of fact others have had the same problem as I did too. The result on my big horn from the incorrect dimension was broken springs. After a lot of finger pointing between lippert. dexter, and heartland, Heartland would fix the problem. They supplied lippert springs to fit the spring hanger dims and the dealer did the install. Now have lippert springs and equalizer and Dexter axles. No problems so far this was done in July 2011
AS a matter of fact others have had the same problem as I did too. The result on my big horn from the incorrect dimension was broken springs. After a lot of finger pointing between lippert. dexter, and heartland, Heartland would fix the problem. They supplied lippert springs to fit the spring hanger dims and the dealer did the install. Now have lippert springs and equalizer and Dexter axles. No problems so far this was done in July 2011
