Ford F-350 6.7 Diesel Failure

[Jim.Allison]

The break in period still exist as does 3000 mile oil changes. This is a remnant from years past. Today the machine tolerances and design virtually eliminate break-in periods. On the diesels, the rings and cylinders are so hard that they will still have the honing marks after 200,000 miles, so where exactly does the break in occur. The bearing will NEVER touch that crankshaft, so there is nothing to seat. The lifters are hard as ****, and there should not be a mark on them or the cam within the theoretical break in period. Perhaps there might be a break in on the valve seats but even then the valve springs on a diesel are so strong, and the valves and the seat tolerances are so tight that the valve is seated beyond any in the history of diesel motors. I'm not saying that one should not take it easy on his new motor for the first 500 to 1000 miles, What I am saying is that this process is not as important as it has been in the past. I would be highly concerned if parts needed to be operated to essentially rub themselves into shape in order to perform as they are designed. I promise one thing, crankshaft bearing and wrist pins by their very nature require no breaking in. Injector pumps are precision, if they were not they would self destruct, their parts are extremely hard and precision. Knowing and believing this, I still follow break in procedures as they are not that difficult for me. And I think that most that can afford todays diesel pickups are intelligent and patient enough to operate their vehicles appropriately in the first 500 to 1000 miles so that whatever remnant of required break-in is accomplished. Diesels are designed to be operated not driven. That having been said, the clutch or clutch plates in an standard and automatic respectively will break in and provide more plate area on their mating surfaces but this should occur fairly rapidly perhaps before you even get a chance to hook up a load to the vehicle, a load will speed this process. The ring and pinion are so **** hard that little wear can even happen within the "breake-in period except for a little averaging between the the mating surfaces of the teeth. The yoke and axel bearings would cause me great concern if they had to break-in, they are precision bearings, and as such no wear is tolerable or they would self destruct. BUT, lets say that a break in is required. How far do you intend to push your motor after the break in? Why not operate your diesel as it is designed to operate from day one, if operated correctly there should not be tremendous differences between operating practices of break-in and normal operations. If your operating practices after the break in period are so radically different from the break-in practices, then I'm concerned with the detrimental effects of those practices rather than the infintesimal benefits of adhering to a break in regiment.

 

[BBslider001]

Just keep in mind there's a reason for oil specifications being what they are. I dealt with manufacturers for 40 years and those who followed equipment manufacturers lubrication specs had a far lower incident of equipment failure. There were always maintenance depts who chose various methods who were satisfied, but from an overall perspective, following specs yielded greater success.

I hear you and can assure you that any diesel rated oil (CJ4 or higher)is more than in specs or it would not be available on the shelf for diesel use. Weight and brand does not matter, but the type of oil does. If a newer diesel engine has main bearing failure, I would bet my bottom dollar on poor engine design and not on lube failure. Engines rearely, RARELY fail due to lube failure unless it just runs out of oil. A brand new diesel engine running any diesel rated oil at any weight is more than protected. Opinions, warm good feelings, and even manuals about oil don't do us or the engine any good, but the additives and make up are what do the job. Again, show me some numbers and I would stand corrected, but constant reading of UOAs and working on engines most of my life tell me that design usually fails long before an oil does. On another note, glad Ford is fixing it for you. make sure they replace EVERYTHING, and not just the bottom end. What you described affects the entire assembly and you will just have problems down the road. In other words, don't let them go the cheap route. You paid at least $50k for that truck...make sure you get what you paid for.

 

[MTPockets]

I hear you and can assure you that any diesel rated oil (CJ4 or higher)is more than in specs or it would not be available on the shelf for diesel use. Weight and brand does not matter, but the type of oil does. If a newer diesel engine has main bearing failure, I would bet my bottom dollar on poor engine design and not on lube failure. Engines rearely, RARELY fail due to lube failure unless it just runs out of oil. A brand new diesel engine running any diesel rated oil at any weight is more than protected. Opinions, warm good feelings, and even manuals about oil don't do us or the engine any good, but the additives and make up are what do the job. Again, show me some numbers and I would stand corrected, but constant reading of UOAs and working on engines most of my life tell me that design usually fails long before an oil does. On another note, glad Ford is fixing it for you. make sure they replace EVERYTHING, and not just the bottom end. What you described affects the entire assembly and you will just have problems down the road. In other words, don't let them go the cheap route. You paid at least $50k for that truck...make sure you get what you paid for.

I guess we're all free to choose. I'll follow manufacturer's recommendations for stated severe service duty.

 

[Jim.Allison]

I suspect that you might be getting diesel fuel into the crankcase during the regeneration cycle. Have them check the number 7 and 8 cylinders.........I also suspect that your filter may have failed, switch to Stratapore. But my main comment is; Oil is oil, but before you get on me, let me explain......The bearings do not have a preference to oil or SAE specification. They do have a preference for viscosity. Oil is oil in this regard but there is a big BUT. It has to last for the duration of the oil change interval. But you can't buy an oil that won't support the lubrication requirements for the bearings. The manufacturer specifies oil because the oil they specify meets EVERY requirement of the motor. From change interval, to its ability to lubricate the turbo, and whether or not it causes problems in the emissions system AND everything in between. The oil must serve all the areas of the motor effectively between oil changes. If you were to put in common 30 weight oil into your modern diesel motor and run it for 10 days you would most likely not suffer any damage. Especially to main and rod bearings, but if you were to run it in a cummins for 15000 miles you can bet it would not be good, might not hurt it but it would not be good. But oil is so cheap and your diesel engine supplement tells you what specification the oil needs to meet, I would just wonder why anyone would deviate from the guideline. Before I performed my first oil change I searched for the best oil, I felt that there had to be a better oil than the Valvoline strongly suggested by Cummins, I searched and searched and read about all the oils out there from Kendal to Shell to Valvoline and synthetics. I finally settled on the Valvoline. Why? Because the price was right, Cummins recommended it and it is available everywhere AND if you read the label you will find that it meets the specifications of all the diesel motor manufacturers. If all else fails for you, run the oil that the dealer sells for 2x the price, they have a vested interest in your motor performance you won't go wrong there. The right thing to do is get the number the manufacture as designated as the spec, not the SAE number (it will be CJ4 oil anyway) and research the oils that meet that number. That is the oil you should use. But for a modern diesel if you go CJ4 Plus, you have the right oil regardless if the oil is "approved" or "meets". Its about the oil performing for all lubrication points in the motor for the duration of the oil change interval. BTW, it is likely that the oil in your crankcase had many more miles to travel before it would be spent, some guys go 20 thousand miles on dinosaur oil, by having it tested at regular intervals. There is more to this story. They have not discovered or they are not telling you everything. I would also think "filtration. filtration. filtration." Switch to Stratapore filters. you will be way ahead of the game. It may very well be that your filter failed and allowed particulates to bypass the filter. Still, this would not burn out a bearing, but would not be good for them either. I think a long or a short block is in order for this rig, not a bottom overhaul. I fear there was diesel in the crankcase.

 

[porthole]

"If" you are going to get your oil changed at a dealer you may as well find out what they are putting in your truck. Every dealer I worked for used bulk oil. Same oil went in everything that rolled in the door unless the customer brought his own oil in or specifically asked for the factory bottled stuff.

The exception would be be when I did drive train work. Warranty paid for factory bottles so that was what I put in.

 

[TheLindsays]

if you have Good Sam's or any other road assistance.. most give trip interruption $$ too...

 

[TXBobcat]

I have a question. When they towed your rig did they tow the truck and trailer separate or did they raise your truck still connected to the trailer and tow it to your campground? I have had my truck towed once on a flat bed but never the truck and trailer separate or together.

While we are talking about oil. I have used Shell Rotella T 15-40 on my '06 F250 truck for all the years but have changed to Amsoil 15-40 oil and their filter. Talking to the diesel mechanic and the Amsoil Rep I can go 15,000 miles without changing oil. Do many of you use Amsoil and their filters. I would be interested in your opinions.

BC

 

[porthole]

Talking to the diesel mechanic and the Amsoil Rep I can go 15,000 miles without changing oil. Do many of you use Amsoil and their filters. I would be interested in your opinions.

BC

A) i won't go a 15k oil change no matter who says it is ok.

B) I did try Amsoil when I had my GMC. But in the end it was just to expensive, especially considering in order for me to be a "dealer" the discount was negated by the high hazmat shipping fees.

BTW, anyone can be a dealer, just sign up and pay the fee.

 

[JeffG1947]

I have a question. When they towed your rig did they tow the truck and trailer separate or did they raise your truck still connected to the trailer and tow it to your campground? I have had my truck towed once on a flat bed but never the truck and trailer separate or together.

BC

They towed the truck and trailer together with one of the very large wreckers. It went fine.
Jeff

 

[BBslider001]

A) i won't go a 15k oil change no matter who says it is ok.

B) I did try Amsoil when I had my GMC. But in the end it was just to expensive, especially considering in order for me to be a "dealer" the discount was negated by the high hazmat shipping fees.

BTW, anyone can be a dealer, just sign up and pay the fee.

This is true. I am glad to see you didn't drink the kool-aid, so to speak. Amsoil is only really worth the money if you start doing bypass filtration, UOAs, and running it for 25k miles. Most of us are not going to do that though. Even if one can afford all of that, it's too much time and effort when you can just use a good dino oil and change every 5k without worrying about all of the other stuff. In my truck, the injectors or driven by the oil, so clean oil is a must for healthy injector life. Since it's about $1500 to replace them myself, I keep the oil pretty clean and change every 5k no matter what kind of service the truck has seen between changes.

 

[scottyb]

This is true. I am glad to see you didn't drink the kool-aid, so to speak. Amsoil is only really worth the money if you start doing bypass filtration, UOAs, and running it for 25k miles. Most of us are not going to do that though. Even if one can afford all of that, it's too much time and effort when you can just use a good dino oil and change every 5k without worrying about all of the other stuff. In my truck, the injectors or driven by the oil, so clean oil is a must for healthy injector life. Since it's about $1500 to replace them myself, I keep the oil pretty clean and change every 5k no matter what kind of service the truck has seen between changes.

I agree with everything you said. I choose Dino and more frequency. It cost me $60 to have mine changed at a trusted lube place. There are not too many companies using synthetic oil in their fleets. Even bulldozers and excavators are getting just as complicated as these pickup diesels, with their HP injectors, DPF's, and recently the addition of DEF. Most of our machines are Tier 3 and interim Tier 4. We only have a couple machines and pickups using DEF now, but will be buying DEF by the drum pretty soon.

 

[JeffG1947]

A final update - the new long block was installed and the truck returned to us on June 13th. Only 100 miles of break-in but towed gently to Natural Bridge VA on 6/14. Everything seems fine, although I admit to waiting for something else to happen. I'll get over that. While we're here driving in manual mode to give engine broader range of engine speeds.

We hope everyone enjoyed the Rally in Urbanna - we'll try again next year.

The service staff at Ted Russell Ford in Knoxville KY were fantastic - if we had to breakdown I'm happy it was in their service area. Ford corporate customer relations also very helpful with road service and extraordinary costs we have incurred.

Also thanks to all who posted their thoughts and suggestions.

Safe travels!!

Jeff & Nanci

 

[Jim.Allison]

A) i won't go a 15k oil change no matter who says it is ok.

B) I did try Amsoil when I had my GMC. But in the end it was just to expensive, especially considering in order for me to be a "dealer" the discount was negated by the high hazmat shipping fees.

BTW, anyone can be a dealer, just sign up and pay the fee.

Does Ford do the 15,000 mile service? Ram says 15,000 but it is really by hobbs hours and time in months as well. It is close to accurate but in the manual it says 15000 or XX hours or months which ever is first. Guys that test their oil go a whole lot further than 15,000 even on dino oil. But my question has always been that Valvoline 15W40 heavy duty diesel oil is so inexpensive, why would anyone even extend an oil change past the hobbs hours or time in months? I do recommend the Fleeteguard Stratapore filter no matter which diesel you own. And yes I know all the filter arguments but read up on the stratapore.

 

[porthole]

Hey Jeff, good to hear you are back on the road and it really is a shame you missed the rally, it was a great one.
Try and make time to actually visit the "Natural Bridge" while there.

 

[porthole]

bypass filtration

I don't remember why and not going to bother with it, but when I had my GMC and started with the Amsoil stuff, I looked into the whole bypass thing. I researched it enough at the time to decide it was not for me.

I would suggest anyone thinking about do some research.

 

[porthole]

Does Ford do the 15,000 mile service?

No. The Fords base oil change on load.

The computers do all the calculations and present a change oil message on the dash when it is time. So all highway driving would yield a longer interval. Lots of towing would shorten the interval. IIRC the basic interval is a minimum of 15K or 1 year.