Ford F-350 6.7 Diesel Failure

[JeffG1947]

Our first post-retirement trip is a bust. Made it from northern IL to Louisville KY, then Nashville TN. On way to Asheville NC, had to hard downshift up a hill to pass a truck doing 30mph. Soon after the engine started to knock and the low oil pressure warning appeared. I've read about this happening and it may have dropped a valve into the cylinder. No power from #1 and not much from #8.

Truck is under warranty and only has 18,000 miles of which 3,300 are towing. Ford paid for tow of truck and trailer to Soaring Eagle Campground just off I40 in Lenoir TN. Luckily they had enough room for the big wrecker to tow us into a space. On 6/2/14 truck towed to dealer. Waiting for teardown for Ford to determine fix/replacement but most likely new engine required. They also provided rental car for initial 10 days. He said this repair will take 10-15 business days. If it turns out to be a valve related problem it's not a unique problem although not common either. Guess I'll never force a downshift.

So we had to cancel reservations in Asheville NC, Charleston SC and for the Rally in Urbanna. We're out $400+. Using loaner car now in Asheville hotel and will go to Charleston hotel. Extra cost for 'lodging' $1,200 including Soaring Eagle, not to mention eating out every meal.

If truck is ready by 6/13 with a new engine we'll have to put on 400 non-towing miles then hopefully proceed to Natural Bridge VA on 6/15 with a final stop in Lexington KY.

Making the best of an unfortunate situation but really disappointed. We were looking forward to our first national rally. I love my truck, but now trusting it will be a challenge.

Jeff

P.S. - if you're ever in Asheville, Mama Gertie's campground is an interesting option. We drove to it to see what we missed. It's built into the side of a mountain so roads are narrow and steep but the sites are level. New sites at mountain top have no shade but do have gorgeous views of the maintain range.

 

[cookie]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
We will miss you and Nanci in Urbanna.
See you in Chatham?

Peace
Dave

 

[MTPockets]

That's a real tragedy. I'm curious; can you tell me what engine oil you use?


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[porthole]

Our first post-retirement trip is a bust.
Waiting for teardown for Ford to determine fix/replacement but most likely new engine required.
They also provided rental car for initial 10 days.

If it turns out to be a valve related problem it's not a unique problem although not common either. Guess I'll never force a downshift.

Well that just plain stinks.

The 10 day rental is standard, but make some noise, engine replacements typically take 10-15 days unless the dealer already has an engine in stock or en-route (unlikely). So you would not be the first customer requesting a rental extension.

Are you using the ford factory prep 5th wheel hitch?
Does the dealer have super duties for rent that have the hitch prep? Demo maybe?
It would be worth it to pay a bit extra if you could continue your vacation until the truck gets finished.

I only mention that because one of the highway dealers near us are big on trucks and usually have 250's availbe for work related rentals.

If a valve broke, you'll be getting a new engine. A broken valve almost always takes out a cylinder wall as well as all the other havoc it creates, including sending debris to the turbo.

Your downshift had nothing to do with the failure. The programming in the PCM's is designed to not allow the driver to cause a failure. You are right about not being unique and not common. But, there were a few early 6.7's that had valve failures and every one was catastrophic to the engine, requiring replacement.

Most of the early failures were all early 2011 "Job 1" trucks, trucks with engines built before August 2010.

 

[scottyb]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Although rare, if you are the one, it is a catastrophe nonetheless. Unfortunately this happens with all equipment. We have a Volvo excavator that has been nothing but problematic since it was new. The most recent is a cracked head. The other 8 Volvos, loaders and excavators, have been stellar.

 

[JeffG1947]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
We will miss you and Nanci in Urbanna.
See you in Chatham?

Peace
Dave

That's the plan!!!
Thanks.
Jeff

 

[JeffG1947]

I am using the Ford prep for the hitch but dealer had no rental option nor did Enterprise (who actually provided the Chevy Malibu - irony). Mine was made May 2012 so it shouldn't have an early engine version.

 

[JeffG1947]

Ford is the only one who has serviced the vehicle, so using the standard Ford 10W30 oil (not synthetic because I change oil/filter every 5,000 miles like clockwork). If anything I baby the truck.

 

[Garypowell]

I am not sure if this is needed with newer trucks but before you pull your rig I would break in the new engine a little.

 

[Shortest Straw]

Sorry to hear about your motor problems. We have some of these in our fleet without problems like you have had. Turbos is the big issue as some only last a couple thousand miles. They are to small to be doing what they are asked to do. My neighbor wrenches on diesels in his shop and has told me in the recent past that the best diesels out there are out of warranty. He went on to explain that once they are out of warranty you can put good aftermarket parts on and make them more durable. I don't know if he was joking or not because the new emission systems are so difficult to work on, but he says the best thing you can do if you are towing a lot is to buy a pre 2003 diesel. I suppose there is much truth to that coming from a guy that's been wrenching on them for 25 years. I will say this, one of my concerns is that something happens to my pick up and I have to buy a new one.

I hope this is resolved quickly so you can get on with your trip.

 

[Crumgater]

I'd check around for other truck rental options if you can... then come back for your truck later.

When we dropped the tranny in our '95 F250 (gasser) trying to back the 5er up a little hill into a storage spot (yes, we were newbies)... we found a local truck rental spot (mostly cargo trucks, but a few pickups available, too) and rented a REALLY nice Dodge Laramie 3500.... decked out with leather captains chairs and a sunroof... and it towed like a dream. I'd do that again in a heartbeat. I'd think you'd come out money ahead on what you'd save being able to stay with your 5er versus hoteling it.

Sorry about your Truck. Good thing you're still under warranty and Ford is taking care of you.

 

[TravelTiger]

You might check with your insurance company to see if you have trip interruption coverage, which may pay for your unexpected expenses. Mechanical breakdown is a covered reason for coverage with Progressive. They reimburse for things like hotels and repairs, and maybe even your non-refundable rally fees.


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[MTPockets]

I suggest in the future you use the Ford manual recommended oil for severe duty service, which includes towing. 5w40 synthetic should be used as these engines take a lot of punishment and can handle it. Following Ford recommendation is the best practice. I have personally had Ford dealers question my choice of using the 5w40 synthetic oil which shows ignorance on the part of their service writers. I show them the manual and the severe duty spec and description, and they quickly back off, and, I know there are many who have their own theories, but hoping they are right is risky. As others have stated, yours is most likely an anomaly as bad things happen to even the best; so sorry it was you.

 

[BBslider001]

Sorry to hear about your motor problems. We have some of these in our fleet without problems like you have had. Turbos is the big issue as some only last a couple thousand miles. They are to small to be doing what they are asked to do. My neighbor wrenches on diesels in his shop and has told me in the recent past that the best diesels out there are out of warranty. He went on to explain that once they are out of warranty you can put good aftermarket parts on and make them more durable. I don't know if he was joking or not because the new emission systems are so difficult to work on, but he says the best thing you can do if you are towing a lot is to buy a pre 2003 diesel. I suppose there is much truth to that coming from a guy that's been wrenching on them for 25 years. I will say this, one of my concerns is that something happens to my pick up and I have to buy a new one.

I hope this is resolved quickly so you can get on with your trip.

I could not agree with this more! I have always kept my diesels pre-2002 (Dodge and Ford) to tow my RV and my horse trailers. We currently own (not pay 1000's per month) a 1997 F-350 that has 206k on it and just keeps getting better. I have done a few minor mods to it only for longevity, but it tows our 2011 Sundance very well and we saved the $60k it takes to buy one of those new King Ranch Fords. You might consider this option if you can get over the pretty brown leather and new smell. One of these trucks can be had for anywhere from $6-10k which puts quite a bit of money back in your pocket to make it bulletproof and more than tow worthy. I could go on and on about this, but you get the point...and to date, this truck has never left me stranded. There is much to be said about simplicity and dependability.

I suggest in the future you use the Ford manual recommended oil for severe duty service, which includes towing. 5w40 synthetic should be used as these engines take a lot of punishment and can handle it. Following Ford recommendation is the best practice. I have personally had Ford dealers question my choice of using the 5w40 synthetic oil which shows ignorance on the part of their service writers. I show them the manual and the severe duty spec and description, and they quickly back off, and, I know there are many who have their own theories, but hoping they are right is risky. As others have stated, yours is most likely an anomaly as bad things happen to even the best; so sorry it was you.

Maybe use the manual to keep your warranty out of question, but 10w-30 and 5w-40 have no bearing on catastrophic engine failure. The only catalyst for failure of the 10w-30 might be if it isn't diesel rated oil, but the weight and synthetic vs. non-synthetic have ZERO bearing on protection of the engine. If it did, it wouldn't be available to the public. Rotella has a 10w-30 I have used for severe towing on 5-7k mile oil change intervals and never burned a drop or had the temp go over 225*. In short, it's a fantastic oil. In fact, all diesel oils out there, synthetic or conventional, are more than stout to do their job. This issue points all fingers to poor engine design on Ford's part, not lube failure.

 

[MTPockets]

I could not agree with this more! I have always kept my diesels pre-2002 (Dodge and Ford) to tow my RV and my horse trailers. We currently own (not pay 1000's per month) a 1997 F-350 that has 206k on it and just keeps getting better. I have done a few minor mods to it only for longevity, but it tows our 2011 Sundance very well and we saved the $60k it takes to buy one of those new King Ranch Fords. You might consider this option if you can get over the pretty brown leather and new smell. One of these trucks can be had for anywhere from $6-10k which puts quite a bit of money back in your pocket to make it bulletproof and more than tow worthy. I could go on and on about this, but you get the point...and to date, this truck has never left me stranded. There is much to be said about simplicity and dependability.



Maybe use the manual to keep your warranty out of question, but 10w-30 and 5w-40 have no bearing on catastrophic engine failure. The only catalyst for failure of the 10w-30 might be if it isn't diesel rated oil, but the weight and synthetic vs. non-synthetic have ZERO bearing on protection of the engine. If it did, it wouldn't be available to the public. Rotella has a 10w-30 I have used for severe towing on 5-7k mile oil change intervals and never burned a drop or had the temp go over 225*. In short, it's a fantastic oil. In fact, all diesel oils out there, synthetic or conventional, are more than stout to do their job. This issue points all fingers to poor engine design on Ford's part, not lube failure.

Just keep in mind there's a reason for oil specifications being what they are. I dealt with manufacturers for 40 years and those who followed equipment manufacturers lubrication specs had a far lower incident of equipment failure. There were always maintenance depts who chose various methods who were satisfied, but from an overall perspective, following specs yielded greater success.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Trouble with the #7 and 8 cylinder is a problem that a Cummins will never have. I like 15000 mile oil change on some dinosaur oil. But the secret is filtration. Stratapore has a filter for you Ford guys too. I think that the Ford 6.7 problems are directly related to the fact that it is not a Cummins. Just kidding. I think that they have so much HP and torque they can literally trash themselves.

 

[JanAndBill]

Years ago my head mechanic told me that when engines got smarter than he was it was time to for him to retire. In 1999 we bought our first electronic engines, and he held good to his promise. There is no doubt the mechanical engines as a whole were easier to work on but where we were lucky to get 500k on a pre-electronic engine, we were now running a million miles plus. The biggest reason for that, is that the computer did a better job of knowing when to shut it down, then most drivers. I was also taught at an early age that comparing a gasoline to a diesel engine was like comparing a race horse to a mule, you had to drive/work them accordingly.

 

[JeffG1947]

Thanks for all the responses. Here's the update - the dealer says it was a main bearing failure. I don't know whether he checked the exhaust system and turbo but believe that's normal practice. A long block is on order and they plan to have us on the road again by 6/13.

I have two questions for you all:

- Manual says 400 miles without towing and the first 1,000 miles varying speeds. That's what we did the first time. Ford rep and dealer rep both say to 'just take it easy' (i.e. stay under 70, avoid hard starts, downshifting). I'm still going to put on a least 200 miles but wonder what your thoughts are?

- Since we're missing the Rally our next stop on 6/15 was to be Natural Bridge VA. From Knoxville TN it means most of the way on I-81. This appears to follow the mountain chain and there are at least two locations which have long truck uphill lanes. i think high elevation is 6,500ft and there is a total climb of 2,500ft. By the time I get there I'd definitely be over 400 miles, but do you think this is too aggressive a first trip with the new engine?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[porthole]

It is not easy breaking in an engine with an auto trans. But you can help it a bit by using the manual mode. In a higher gear, do some 3/4+ throttle pulls from a low speed up to 2500 rpm or so then back off and let the engine slow you down.

The high gear low speed acceleration helps put pressure on the rings to start seating them and the high rpm engine slow down helps oil the cylinders and rings.
The varying speeds is good as well.

But, all the years I worked at highway Dodge dealers I really did not see any difference in engine repairs between guys that followed the book on break in procedures and guys that never opened the manual. If I had to guess I would say I averaged an engine a week as well as 1 or 2 transmissions a week (especially when new trans designs came out).
Probably 1-2 differentials a month as well, and nobody follows break in procedures for those.

Bottom line, I wouldn't sweat it too much, just take it easy for the first thousand. You'd be surprise how many guys drive their new trucks and motorcycles with the "ride it like ya stole it" mentality

 

[jnbhobe]

X2

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