Freeze Up

[Coyote]

I'm 30 miles from the Mexican border but got hit with a large winter blast two days ago with a wind chill of -1 and actual of 9 degrees and currently with lows of 17-18 degrees. I have a rear kitchen and the water lines are freezing from mid ship to the kitchen. I thought as long as the furnace was working that that shouldn't happen. Called the factory and ask about their claim of zero degree tested and he stated the water lines are only protected to 32 degrees and that test is only to prove you can maintain a reasonable temperature inside the coach. Probably don't have much to worry about above 32 .
Has anyone had any luck insulating the waterlines and what should I use? Was thinking after I drop the plastic under belly I might try 1/2 inch black pipe insulation to see if that helps. We like to stay in New Mexico but the temps are often below 32 degrees at night. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[brianharrison]

That's kinda funny - water lines only protected to 32 degrees.

Running insulation on the lines will work to slow down the freezing process - but if it is cold outside and no flow inside the pipe, eventually it will freeze as well. There needs to be an external heat source. I have had success with insulation AND adding an electric space heater and fan (watch your local fire codes and take precautions) to add heat into the underbelly from the basement - this helps when the furnace runs intermittently. Self regulating heat tape on the line and then insulating works when it is really cold.

Brian

 

[danemayer]

If the lines thaw out as the temps rise during the day, you might also try setting the thermostat higher at night to get more hot air around the water lines.

If it doesn't freeze very often, keeping a gallon or two of water in jugs might get you through frozen mornings.

If more is needed, while the underbelly is down, you might as well put heat tape on the water lines along with insulation around the pipes.

If you have an icemaker, the water line to the icemaker is probably exposed to outside air and needs to be drained. Also watch out for washing machine hoses.

You should also keep a light bulb on in the UDC and behind the basement wall near the water pump.

If you don't have a heated water hose, you should probably disconnect and drain the hose on freezing nights. Run off the fresh tank.

The fresh tank drain has water between the underbelly cover and the drain valve. Heat tape on the drain pipe will keep it from freezing and letting ice wick into the fresh water line.

 

[Bob&Patty]

While you have the underbelly down.....make sure that the water lines are not against the frame. They will freeze if they are.

 

[TravelTiger]

Coyote,

Removing the underbelly is quite a challenge. It may take more than one person, and you will have to remove some things that are installed after the belly is put on (gas line). We ended up cutting ours behind the spare tire (up front) and in front of the rear stabilizers (in back). I strongly recommend using an automotive creeper to get around under there, it will really save your muscles and joints!

We had some freezing issues last year, staying in Durango, CO for a week and temps got *Below* zero! We want to take our Elk Ridge to Breckenridge, CO this winter, so we have invested in some heating pads and pipe warmers. We removed the underbelly, and discovered that the pipes going to the kitchen do run along the frame, then under a grey tank so they are close to the bottom of the rig. We added Ultraheat pipe warmers to these lines, then wrapped them with foam pipe insulation. We also added heaters to the fresh water supply line from the fresh tank, and wrapped it with foam insulation. We added some adhesive-backed foam tape along the frame any where pipes were against it. We also wrapped the drain pipes from tank to valve and valve to out with an insulative fiber wrap and duct tape (cheapest solution we could find). I also could not specifically locate a heating duct going into the underbelly, so we added a vent directly into the belly, in the area where the valves are for the tanks. We will also have the 100 watt bulb strategically aimed at the pipes/pump behind the wall in the basement. If that doesn't work, we'll use a small heater.

Here is a link to work in progress.

Good luck!

 

[PUG]

You can always "skirt" the trailer with canvas, plastic, insulation board, etc. etc. keeping it as airtight as possible. That will help keep the disapated heat from being lost underneath. Put a heat tape on your fresh water hose, and crack all faucetts to run all night. Turn HWH off and let hot water lines run at night also. Make sure to open the grey tank valve so it doesnt overfill. Turn thermostate up higher and put a small electric heater in basement and any other compartment you can. Make sure nothing is up against the heaters to catch fire.

 

[Coyote]

Thanks for all the help. I think I will proceed slowly and see if the lines are close to the frame after I open up the under belly and if they are I may heat tape them before putting on insulation. I appreciate the insights.

 

[Coyote]

Update: I opened up the under belly and fully understand why my lines froze up. From under the steps near the bedroom to the kitchen the lines where laying loose on the plastic/cardboard under belly against the metal frame. Where the axles brackets are welded on there are openings in the under belly about six inches long and a half inch wide that fully exposed the lines to the outside air. Yes, they would definitely freeze below 32 degrees. I placed the loose lines in black foam pipe wrap then sealed the opening to the outside with spray foam. Not an expensive repair but very time consuming and I really would have expected much better from Heartland and even through I'm under warranty I'm sure they would have turned down this repair. We do like this coach but I've owned a number of other brands and being from Montana been out in much colder weather with never a frozen line inside the under belly. Live and learn.

 

[PUG]

I noticed on my old Cyclone 3950 that the weatherization underneath was almost non existant. The material underneath had gaps everywhere along the sides and big holes around plumbing. The cyclone is a pretty much fair weather trl but I expected more and had to do something to handle colder weather. I ended up going to Ace and purchasing a bucket full of frame clips. The frame clips work real well to seal it up along the edges. I bought several cans of latex spray foam and filled every gap. The latex foam is way easier to clean up. On other big gaps I made metal pieces from galvanized sheet metal, fastened them on with screws and then spray foamed them. When I was under the trl I inspected all water lines, repositioned many and welded straps under the water tanks to hold them up better. The trl was suppossed to have a heated underbelly, yah right. I kept the furnace running in real cold weather, put a small electric htr in the basement and sometimes ran the hot and cold water at night to keep it from freezing. (turn HWH off) My new trl SOB has a fully fiberglass insulated bottom side wrapped practically airtight with heating but it is a full time living unit and of course you pay f or that.

 

[TravelTiger]

Coyote, glad you found a solution. I too was surprised at the lack of preparedness of the ElkRidge for colder weather, but remember, it is at the bottom of the full-profile line, so it does not have many of the features that the Big Horn, Big Country and Landmarks have. (They have to cut somewhere to get it to that price-point.) It was not advertised as a 4-season coach, so we really cannot expect it to be one. Our next rig WILL BE 4-season ready from the factory (and thus, more expensive, I'm sure.)

Remember to have fun! The ElkRidge is a still a great 5ver.

 

[rvn4fun]

We have a Big Country and it also has the freeze up issue with the water line going to the pump from fresh water tank. We stuck a thermometer probe down below the kitchen sink, by the drain pipe, into the underneath, to find out what the actual temperature was there. When outside temperature was 28, below was 34 or so. So we quickly found out if you camp below 32 you will have freeze issues. This would be such a easy issue to solve in production at the factory, but apparently Heartland doesn't think there is a problem as it has continued for a lot of years. Our solution, we winter in Yuma, and don't go up north until May. Our freeze issues were in Texas two years ago.

 

[traveler44]

We haven't made it south yet so our Bighorn is still beside the house. I went out today and when I opened the door it felt like something was pulling on the screen door. Found out that the felt on the bottom of the screen door was frozen to the door sill. I figure it got wet from my going in and out the days it was raining and won't dry out until I run some heat inside or use a hair dryer on it.