Greased Wheel Bearings....The Illinois Rally Saga Continues

[chasdvorak]

As part of the Illinois Rally, I asked for some help and we had a class on packing wheel bearings by hand (special thanks to Dave, Jon, Jan, Ken and the peanut gallery). We had a great time and I learned from some very experienced folks. Prior to this lesson, I pumped grease into the zerk fitting until I saw some backflow. Most people at the rally thought the zerk was a waste of time and a cause of potential problems due to blown seals....I now agree with that statement. We did a complete job on one wheel with the intention of completing the other 3 on my own time.

So today I decided it was high time to finish the job. As luck would have it, the wheel we did at the rally was actually in the best shape with little excess grease. As I worked on the other 3 wheels, I noticed gobs (if that is a word) of grease in the area between the inner and outer bearing. The last wheel turned into a real problem when I popped off the brake drum. To my surprise, the brake magnet fell off. The spring was present, but the retaining clip was missing. I had a flat piece of wood under the hub when I removed it and I was unable to locate the missing clip. Could it have been devoured by the braking action.. I did not see any signs of this on the pads or lining. I also had a ton of grease in the hub and a large amount penetrated the brakes. The attached picture shows some of the grease after I already removed a large amount. The back seal was tight, so I'm not sure how the grease got onto the brakes.

That said, I'd appreciate any info on how I lost that retaining clip and the best method for fixing it. Is this clip available locally or is it something that has to come from Lippert. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated . As for the SupeLube hubs....I followed the instructions, spinning the wheel as I pumped and stopping when I saw the backflow. I won't be doing that again!!!

Here's some pictures of my problem child. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[jnbhobe]

Chuck; Brake parts are available from any GOOD spring shop or RV dealer, (remember the word good). The extra grease pushed right past the seal rubber just from the pressure.

 

[DougS]

Chuck,
The one picture you showed looks like the magnet might be worn out. Put a straight edge on the magnet, and if the edges are worn down, you might think about replacing the magnet.

 

[TedS]

The mechanic at the trailer shop that packed my bearings said he finds that clip is very often gone when he pulls the drums.

 

[TeJay]

The more I read concerning these problems the more convinced I am that the zerk method is a waste of time. Yes, the drum could have eaten up the clip. Search local or on-line and I'm sure you'll find replacement parts for almost all of the brake area. Remove what you need from another drum and take it to a local NAPA store and they can do a search.

Did the guys at the rally suggest synthetic brake grease?? If they didn't that would be my recommendation. The grease that they use to pump into the hubs is a lot thinner than standard bearing grease. I prefer Amzoil series 2000 synthetic racing grease. It's a bit of overkill but for a few dollars more why not.

What most don't seem to understand about the wheel bearing set up is this. Years ago, before front wheel drive vehicles became standard equipment all front wheels, either drum or disc were just like what we have on today's travel trailers. There was an inner and outer bearing, races and we serviced them about every 30,000 or 40,000 miles. When the grease was packed around the bearing that's all the grease the bearing ever got. Grease did not flow in and out like oil does. You packed it and it stayed around the races and bearing rollers until it was packed again in 30,000 to 40,000 miles. We didn't pack them every year or 12,000 miles and they lasted. I never had an inner seal blow out and ruin my linings or drum. Those things just did not happen because we didn't force grease into the hub and try to flush the old grease out with grease under pressure. Guess what?? The bearings lasted for many, many thousands of miles.

Two more piece of information. Cast iron is porous. When a drum is allowed to be greased that grease will seep into the open pours of the drum and reduce the friction qualities of the drum. You can not wash that grease out. If drums are greased they should be replaced. New shoes/pads must contact the other surface drum/rotor 100% to be able to create the greatest amount of friction to stop your rig. All drums/rotors must be machined when ever braking material is changed to achieve the best friction creating surfaces. IF YOU WANT TO SAVE $$$$$ DON'T DO IT WHEN SERVICING YOUR BRAKES. DO IT PROPERLY WITH THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD. ALWAYS BUY THE BEST BRAKE MATERIAL AND MACHINE ALL DRUMS/ROTORS.

Just my thoughts after working/teaching cars/trucks for 50 years.

TeJay

 

[RuralPastor]

Here is what happened 2052 miles (about 10 days earlier) after lubing my Lippert Easy-lose axles according to manufacturer's information.

 

[Duramax1]

Deleted as I misunderstood your comments

 

[TXBobcat]

I had a very dependable RV Repair service outside of Livingston, TX give me some advice that makes a lot of sense.

Rather than replace the brake shoes and keep the inferior parts from the factory. Replace the entire backing plate, brake shoes, springs, clips and magnets. It is about the same price and you have better parts. The backing plate, shoes and all the parts come in one piece and all you have to do is bolt it on and connect the brake wiring.

FWIW
BC

 

[azdryheat]

Here is what happened 2052 miles (about 10 days earlier) after lubing my Lippert Easy-lose axles according to manufacturer's information. View attachment 21687

That brake hasn't been serviced in years, by the looks of it. There's no friction material on that left pad.

 

[GOTTOYS]

I recently checked my brakes and they all had grease on the shoes and all over inside and on the backing plates and magnets. Since I have never greased them I can only assume they came that way when new. I replaced all the backing plates and seals and cleaned and repacked the bearings by hand. There was a lot of grease inside my drums. I spent many years in the auto industry and we never replaced a drum, because it got greasy. A few minutes in a parts washer or cuda and they cleaned up just fine. Yup cast iron is porous but it doesn't soak up the grease like the brake pads will. That's what I did with mine and my brakes have never worked so well. I was also missing a clip on one magnet. In looking at how they are designed I don't think the clip does much more than hold the magnet in place when the drum is off. It looks to me like the magnet couldn't fall off because it comes in contact with the drum anyway..JMHO...Don

 

[RuralPastor]

That brake hasn't been serviced in years, by the looks of it. There's no friction material on that left pad.

Wow! I didn't realize you could tell by just looking at a photo. Actually, the whole trailer is only 18 months old. And, if you'd think about it, why would one pad be missing and the other showing very little wear? Is it possible the missing pad was torn off when the bearing spun out and the wheel came off at 65 mph?

 

[TeJay]

RuralPastor,
If you've worked on brakes as long as some of us you'd be surprised as what we can see from a picture. Here's the scoop on your brake picture. You can tell from the shoe placement and linings that is a right drum. Look closely at the brake material length on each shoe. The one on the left is longer than the one on the right. Here's what happens when you apply brakes. These are called self-energizing brakes. If you were to grab both shoes toward the bottom they will move fore and aft. The entire shoe assembly, shoes, springs, cables, self-adjusters etc will move probably 1" to 2"'s. They will pivot on the large pin at the top. They are designed to do that. Why??? Picture the drum installed and you step on the brakes. The drum on that side is rotating CW. When the front (primary) shoe contacts the spinning drum the entire assembly shifts or moves with the drum toward the rear and the rear (secondary) shoe becomes wedged or is drawn into and against the rotating drum. That wedging action increases the pressure of the rear shoe against the drum thereby increasing the friction being created and greatly improving stopping. It is therefore not unusual to see the rear shoe wear a lot more than the front.

I've bought many, many shoes and there were times when it was obvious that the rear shoe was made of a different material than the front. The rear shoe will create greater heat and should be made to with stand that heat. Today's pads for discs are all made of combinations of materials. Most are some sort of semi-metallic, sometimes ceramic mixes. Oh by the way they took the asbestos out back in the mid 80's. Even though we see less and less drum brakes I'm sure they've improved the lining materials as well. That's why I recommend NAPA. All my years as a teacher they stayed up with the technology as it changed. I'm sure there are other suppliers that do well but I know how well NAPA does with brake stuff. Besides I'm to old to try and find a new supplier to give me the quality that I expect.

TeJay

 

[TXBobcat]

And there is about the best dissertation I have read on brakes on the forum. Nice job... Otherwise it more or less wedges itself in the drums to slow the trailer down.

BC

 

[chasdvorak]

Update....Thanks for all the great comments. I learned some important lessons and the value of the owners club, this forum and the friendships made through attending rallies. I cleaned up the grease and found some magnet retainer clips at a local RV shop. I finished the last wheel and adjusted all the brakes. I'm going to give the brakes a test and will most likely replace the entire backing plate if necessary....at a minimum I'll replace the shoes. I checked the magnet and it was flat as an ironing board, so I didn't see a need to replace the magnet at this time.

Here's what I learned and some thoughts....

-I really don't like the EZ Lube nipple system. I don't recall pumping more than 3-4 squirts of the grease into the wheels, but I don't know what or if the factory, transport company or dealer did before I took possession of the coach. Bottom Line is you don't know the condition of the system until you take it apart and see for yourself.

-Checking the system caused me to discover a problem with the brake wiring system. I recognized a potential problem with the connectors that were used and decided to use some shrink wrap crimps for a better connection. I don't think I would have noticed this issue if I wasn't working on the brakes.

-I will probably replace the backing plate rather than the shoes when they become worn. It makes sense to get a new plate with all new components rather than just replacing the shoes. The cost is not that substantial and the peace of mind makes it worth it for me.

-I appreciate the education I received on the brake system and hopefully will not have to use it while on the road. That said, I now have the ability to diagnose a problem and a chance to fix it since I bought a spare set of bearings, races and those darn magnet retainer clips.

Thanks again for the help....here's some pictures of the magnet retainer clip and using a straight edge to check the condition of the magnet.

 

[TeJay]

Chasdvorak,
Glad things have worked out for you. At the time I was working on a lot of brake systems the availability of the complete backing plate with all associated parts was no that available. Here is what I taught. It's no secret that disc brakes are much better but installing them on the rear created a problem. They have worked out those problems and it is normal to have discs in the rear. The emergency brake, which is required, is a mechanical device. When you incorporate a mechanical device to activate disc pad application you have problems. I won't get into the actual problems but it is more expensive and complicated to put disc brakes on the rear. Rear shoe brakes will usually last about double what the front discs do. If you got 40,000 miles on the discs you got about 80,000 miles from the rear shoes because of the 70% braking done by the front brakes and only 30% done by the rear. When we did rear brakes we, in addition to good quality shoes bought a self-adjuster kit, and spring kit. That will replace everything except the actual metal backing plate, which almost never needs replacing. You can still do that today. Auto parts stores will stock or can order those two kits. The last time I bought those kits it was about $20-$25 per wheel.

Last question. Did you or will you use a good synthetic grease when you do the bearings???? Believe me you will never be sorry. Quick story. A guy on these forums (he's an Amzoil rep) told me about a friend that races and had to change wheel bearings after every race. He gave him a tube of Amzoil series 2000 racing grease and the guy now goes the entire season without even repacking the bearings. He's sold on synthetics.

TeJay

 

[driver311]

change to oilers never pack again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jbeletti]

change to oilers never pack again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe Mobile Outfitters is coming out with an oil lubrication retro-fit system for greased bearing systems for RV axles.

 

[TeJay]

I don't have any problem when advances in technology make something available to the DIY that was previously available only on heavy duty vehicles. SOOOO... What do oilers cost/wheel?? Can you convert all axles or just the heavier ones???? On a scale of 1-10 and 1 being very easy how difficult is it to install. However if the cost factor is prohibitive then I still recommend just packing the wheel bearings correctly (no EZ-Lube) for about $150 and your done for 30,000 miles.

TeJay

 

[chasdvorak]

TeJay,

Here's the info on the grease I used......I'll keep the Amzoil product in mind for my next bearing job.
thanks for your input.


[h=3]Item Description[/h]

Top of Page​

Mystik JT-6 Hi-Temp No.2 Grease provides superior protection to lubricate a wide variety of automotive, agricultural, trucking, mining, construction and industrial equipment.
Mystik JT-6 Hi-Temp No.2 Grease:

• High temperature lithium complex GC-LB rated grease
• Combines excellent multi-purpose properties with a high dropping point
• Great for applications over a wide temperature range
• Exhibits a high Timken OK Load in addition to providing excellent Four-Ball Wear and EP performance
• Provides superior protection to lubricate a wide variety of automotive, agricultural, trucking, mining, construction and industrial equipment
• Provides outstanding shock load protection
• Extremely versatile
• Highly recommended for disc brake wheel bearings
• Specifically approved for use in Rockwell and Spicer universal joints
• Meets the highest performance categories of ASTM D-4950 Automotive Grease Classification System
• GC for wheel bearing service and LB for chassis service
• Provides excellent protection in severe service requirements such as disc brake wheel bearings, backhoe hinge pins and conveyor bearings

Do you have questions about this product? Ask a question.

 

[driver311]

drive in an oilers seal . take out grease. put clear cap on the outside. fill with rear end oil and u are done. real trucks and trailers for 40 years. just a no brainer