Grounding the rig

[porthole]

Well the "stern fellow" is just plain silly

I do know that my brother in law had a 43' fiberglass sailboat that was struck by lightning and it was not properley grounded using ground plates from the rigging to the water line. The radio antenna atop the mast vaporized. The hull above the water line and the rudder looked like swiss chees, with thousands of pinholes.

If your BIL had a proper 'grounding plate' (which is kind of a misnomer, since you are not grounding anything) the odds are more then good that in the event of a direct strike to the mast, the ground plate would have blown apart taking part of the hull with it. And the rudder was probably already shot, lightning didn't perforate it.

Those plates are not for grounding in the common way of thinking.

As far as lightning goes, there is very little we can do other then stay out of frequent lightning strike areas (Florida), or, hope for the best.

In 35+ years of responding to fire calls I have seen more then once the damage lightning can do, and sometimes it is just downright amazing.

 

[BigGuy82]

Well the "stern fellow" is just plain silly




If your BIL had a proper 'grounding plate' (which is kind of a misnomer, since you are not grounding anything) the odds are more then good that in the event of a direct strike to the mast, the ground plate would have blown apart taking part of the hull with it. And the rudder was probably already shot, lightning didn't perforate it.

Those plates are not for grounding in the common way of thinking.

As far as lightning goes, there is very little we can do other then stay out of frequent lightning strike areas (Florida), or, hope for the best.

In 35+ years of responding to fire calls I have seen more then once the damage lightning can do, and sometimes it is just downright amazing.

Nope - the rudder was a victim of lightning - the boat was < 6 months old. Those "grounding plates" are commonly called "grounding plates" and they do ground to the water, which as you know is a conductor. Blowing the plate apart is unlikely as mast rigging on a 43' boat is substantial. There are different types of sailboat grounding electrodes, but "grounding plate" is a common term. A properly grounded boat (meaning that all downstays are grounded) should not suffer effects such as hull perforation, mast explosions or anything more than perhaps some fried electronics and a melted antenna. If none of this worked, there would be a lot of pleasure craft at the bottom of the ocean due to lightning strikes and although I didn't run the statistics, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

Finally, for anyone here who wants perfect, 100% lightning protection for your RV, just follow Lee Trevino's advice by mounting a 1 iron to the roof of your coach (no, I'm not a golfer). Lee said that if you are ever in a lightning storm, just grab a 1 iron and hold it straight over your head. Why? "Because even God can't hit a 1 iron".

No, I'm not responsible for what happens if you choose to follow the advice in the above quote.

 

[porthole]

Nope - the rudder was a victim of lightning - the boat was < 6 months old. Those "grounding plates" are commonly called "grounding plates" and they do ground to the water, which as you know is a conductor. Blowing the plate apart is unlikely as mast rigging on a 43' boat is substantial. There are different types of sailboat grounding electrodes, but "grounding plate" is a common term. A properly grounded boat (meaning that all downstays are grounded) should not suffer effects such as hull perforation, mast explosions or anything more than perhaps some fried electronics and a melted antenna. If none of this worked, there would be a lot of pleasure craft at the bottom of the ocean due to lightning strikes and although I didn't run the statistics, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

Run with that if you prefer, but the facts are not in there to support it. And there are probably few that can 'properly' install protection. Boat builders not being one of them.
Most (explosions - wrong choice of words, rumors of the plate "blowing apart" are in reference to sintered bronze grounding plates, AKA Dynaplate) are rare, and with BoatUS the only documented cases are wood masts with some amount of rot and water intrusion. The modern aluminum mast offers an excellent path.
The damage comes from the direct exit points, along with the side flashes.

Besides my career in fire, I have also been involved with boats for over 35 years, including 24+ with one of the larger TowBoatUs operations. Until you have been on a 1.5 million dollar boat that had a lightning strike, causing $250,000 in damage, it is hard to imagine just how destructive lightning can be.

Lightning protection electrodes and grounding plates are two different items and concepts. Multiple "Siedarc" electrodes, properly installed for for protection probably is the newest protection scheme. Side flashes have become just as much of a concern as the direct path followed.

Bottom line, a boat protected as best as current science will allow, is still no guarantee of lack of damage. But, given two boats of identical nature with identical strikes, the 'protected' boat should have significant less damage.

And I would like to see a rudder that was perforated by a lightning strike.

 

[BigGuy82]

Run with that if you prefer, but the facts are not in there to support it. And there are probably few that can 'properly' install protection. Boat builders not being one of them.
Most explosions are rare, and with BoatUS the only documented cases are wood masts with some amount of rot and water intrusion. The modern aluminum mast offers an excellent path.
The damage comes from the direct exit points, along with the side flashes.

Besides my career in fire, I have also been involved with boats for over 35 years, including 24+ with one of the larger TowBoatUs operations. Until you have been on a 1.5 million dollar boat that had a lightning strike, causing $250,000 in damage, it is hard to imagine just how destructive lightning can be.

Lightning protection electrodes and grounding plates are two different items and concepts. Multiple "Siedarc" electrodes, properly installed for for protection probably is the newest protection scheme. Side flashes have become just as much of a concern as the direct path followed.

Bottom line, a boat protected as best as current science will allow, is still no guarantee of lack of damage. But, given two boats of identical nature with identical strikes, the 'protected' boat should have significant less damage.

Who said anything about "explosions"? I never did. My point is that if my brother in law had been at sea when struck, he would have had a hull and rudder perforated like swiss chees. That does not make a seaworthy craft and in fact is what I would consider a dangerous situation. Fortunately, he was at the dock.

I've owned four sailboats and two powerboats and have never been hit by lightning. Not my first rodeo.

 

[cookie]

Although it's interesting reading about boats vs. lightning, this thread is about RV grounding, or lack of.
Lets get back on topic.

Peace
Dave

 

[porthole]

If the electrical code (NEC) requires an eight foot long, 5/8" copper clad rod driven into the earth for ground purposes and a second eight foot rod driven if you don't have 25 ohms or less with the first rod, why would any of us think you would have much "grounding" of the RV through two painted plates, attached to two rams, by a bolt that allows the plates to articulate some, that may be insulated somewhat with seals and oil from the cylinders they are in?

If everything is wired correctly, the RV is grounded at the pedestal.
If not connected to shore power, then no ground is needed.

If you have snap pads and feel you need them, they are not going to make an 'electrical' difference.

You should never receive a shock touching your rig, shore power or no shore power.
Either way, a direct lightning strike is going to wreck havoc.

 

[Shortest Straw]

I told this story to my son who is a fuel specialist in the Marines and has to ground just about everything he touches especially when fueling aircraft. He had an enormous laugh about it.

It is my opinion that the fella who pointed out my dangerous, sparky ways was part of a ground your rig safely coalition. I believe they were just passing through to anoint us with their expertise and knowledge. It is also my belief that this coalition of extremely smart people are already at another rv park saving that population of rvers from themselves. I asked the maintenance guy if he had seen him and was told that he had left already.

He will truly be missed...

 

[Jim.Allison]

The toy haulers might be interested in grounding their rig before pumping gasoline. But otherwise? LOL. Any discharge that can arc 20 thousand feet is going to defeat anything man can do short of a huge faraday cage. I think I will rest comfortably in my rig knowing energy management system is on the job.

 

[porthole]

The toy haulers might be interested in grounding their rig before pumping gasoline. But otherwise? LOL. Any discharge that can arc 20 thousand feet is going to defeat anything man can do short of a huge faraday cage. I think I will rest comfortably in my rig knowing energy management system is on the job.

The wire and clip on the toy hauler fuel station is not for grounding the rig.
It is to connect to the vehicle being fueled to minimize static discharge from the nozzle to tank.

 

[Jim.Allison]

The wire and clip on the toy hauler fuel station is not for grounding the rig.
It is to connect to the vehicle being fueled to minimize static discharge from the nozzle to tank.

Right you are, thanks for straightening me out it is a bonding wire not a ground wire. My comment was more satirical, and was not necessarily about the "bonding wire" on toy haulers, and of course it would be fairly stupid to think that the bonding wire was a ground wire for your rig, right? I mean what would one do, clip it on a 8 food copper rod? Or perhaps one could clip it on the pedestal? My comment was more about a conversation that the OP had with a total stranger whom advised the OP that serious electrical shock could happen if he did not remove the snap pads from his landing gear, and the subsequent comments related to it.