I know this is overkill but you never know!

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Wait for the 13's, the dpf clean procedure is being moved to the exhaust pipe instead of over fueling the engine, also because of def the egr will be reduced significantly. Also with 2 overdrives I would definitely get the 410's.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/09/first-look-2013-ram-25003500-hd.html

Dodge will still continue to use diesel injection during a exhaust stroke for the regen. Even with the use of Urea(DEF). Ford and GM still use diesel also.

My read out on the dash of my 12 Ford drops to about 9.5 while in a regen. It just does not use as much anymore.

The DPF cleaning process has always been in the exhaust pipe. DEF is just used to convert NOx trapped in the NOx filter into nitrogen. It is not used to clean the particulate matter from the DPF. The DPF and NOx filters are two different filters in the emission system.

Page 8, Read the first Answer it tells us that the use of DEF has reduced the amount of diesel needed to clean the DPF, This is for the GM. Havent looked for this infor on Dodge or Ford site.
http://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...Manuals and Videos/02_pdf/SilveradoHD_DEF.pdf
 

Invizatu

Senior Road Warriors
Wow! After reading about the significant changes to the 2013 (thanks Walt for the link) I just might have to wait awhile longer and get a 2013.
Unless of course some crazy dealer can make me an offer I can't refuse on a 2012. :)
 

wal_mart

Active Member
Hang in there, moving the dpf to the exhaust pipe and not during exhaust cycle within the engine as ford and ram do is a significant improvement. No more oil contamination. At least that is the plan at present, subject to change.
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Hang in there, moving the dpf to the exhaust pipe and not during exhaust cycle within the engine as ford and ram do is a significant improvement. No more oil contamination. At least that is the plan at present, subject to change.

Unfortunately it has always been in the exhaust pipe and it continues to be there. Urea allows less EGR function. Which In turns allow less diesel to be used during a regen. As regen will happen less often.

Reason less regen is because the diesel engine is more efficient with less EGR function. But with less EGR you produce more NOx. So to counter that they use Urea.

Ford, Dodge, and GM will continue to rely on diesel to clean the DPF. Urea has nothing to do with cleaning that filter.
 

Invizatu

Senior Road Warriors
Hey Trouble Maker... Just kidding, I appreciate the info so far. What do you know about the late model Duramax engines having a 9th glow plug (not sure where it is located) that help eliminate soot from re-entering the oil. My understanding from what I have read off of a couple of diesel forums, that it extends the oil change intervals to 12,000 miles. That sounds like it would save a few bucks over time, since the Dodge dealer told me the Dodge intervals was 6,500 miles. I am curious is Dodge plans to follow soot (I mean suite). lol

Unfortunately it has always been in the exhaust pipe and it continues to be there. Urea allows less EGR function. Which In turns allow less diesel to be used during a regen. As regen will happen less often.

Reason less regen is because the diesel engine is more efficient with less EGR function. But with less EGR you produce more NOx. So to counter that they use Urea.

Ford, Dodge, and GM will continue to rely on diesel to clean the DPF. Urea has nothing to do with cleaning that filter.
 

wal_mart

Active Member
Hopefully Ford and Ram does move the dpf regen to the exhaust, thus eliminating some fuel bypassing the rings. If not we will be switching to GM. This article may explain some dpf regen questions. The 9th glow plug is in exhaust pipe because GM injects in exhaust to regen the DPF filter.

Diesel Particulate Filters

A diesel particulate filter, also known as a DPF, is an emissions reduction device designed to remove diesel particulate matter or soot from the exhaust gases of a diesel engine. This particulate matter is the byproduct of incomplete combustion mostly made up of unburned hydrocarbons (Hc) and the non-combustible residue of lubricating oils. These particles also provide a vehicle for the many trace chemicals that are also produced by diesel fuel and the combustion process which are known to cause environmental problems and believed to cause public health issues. The DPF is designed to physically trap, store and then oxidize or burn off particulate matter effectively reducing particulate matter emissions. This process of burning off the collected particles is called regeneration. What remains after the regeneration process is ash which is the noncombustible residue of engine lubricating oil. The use of ultra low sulfur fuel (ULSD) and low phosphate engine oils is required on DPF equipped engines. Sulfur and phosphates will foul the DPF quickly causing performance loss and dramatically reducing the life of the DPF.
dpf-chemistry-1.gif
It is important to note that the chemistry shown is simplified to show the basic function. The chemistry that takes place in an after treatment system is complex, varies between manufacturers and is still being explored. You need to understand that the process of burning off the particulate matter and determining what chemicals and gasses that exit the tail pipe involves several chemical reactions, not just heat. In fact, depending on the chemical changes that take place, the temperatures require to burn off particulate matter can be reduced. Most after treatment systems combine a diesel oxidation catalyst or a diesel oxidation converter with the DPF and both may be"catalyst-coated." The application of a base, or precious metal coating, to the surface of the catalyst and the filter will alter the chemistry of the exhaust that can reduce the ignition temperature necessary for oxidation of the particulate matter. This passively burns off some of the soot during normal operation of the vehicle and helps in reducing the volume of soot that reaches the DPF. Used in-line with a DPF, a diesel oxidation catalyst will also help boost exhaust temperatures required for active regeneration. A system like that of the 6.4L PSD, extra fuel is added to the exhaust gasses by injecting fuel into the cylinders during the exhaust stroke. The added fuel is burned off in the catalyst effectively raising the exhaust temperature to heat the DPF during active regeneration.
Worth noting- Urea injection, also called Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR), works by an ammonia-like acid being injected into a special catalyst to reduce NOx in diesel emissions. This will further complicate after treatment systems and increase maintenance for the operator in that urea it will add another fluid to be regularly maintained.
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
Hopefully Ford and Ram does move the dpf regen to the exhaust, thus eliminating some fuel bypassing the rings. If not we will be switching to GM. This article may explain some dpf regen questions. The 9th glow plug is in exhaust pipe because GM injects in exhaust to regen the DPF filter.

I see where you are confused. You getting the regen mixed up with how these pickups injected the diesel into the filter to complete a regen.

Like I said, the regen has always taken place inside of the exhaust in the NOx filter and in the DPF.

What you are concern about is how that diesel enters the system to complete a regen.

As Dodge and Ford have used a separate injection during the exhaust stroke. This fuel would not burn inside the cylinder but rather collect in the DPF to burn the soot out. But the adverse effect is raw diesel slowly mixing with the engine lube.


But I don't know if Ford and Dodge have decided to add an injector in the exhaust. I suspect Ford has not as my Instant read out drops to about 9.5 mpg during a regen. If there was an separate injector in the exhaust that should not effect mpg but rather range.
 

mattpopp

Trouble Maker
You just repeat what I said, I don't like overfueling the engine.

I don't like it either but there are a lot trucks out there with a lot of miles to prove it works.

I do however favor the urea as that means less EGR. Less EGR means less soot in the lube.
 
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