It's time for disc brakes.
- Thread starter creeper
- Start date
creeper
Well-known member
Hub assembly was interesting. Found out the lugs are smaller so i can't use the the lugs that came with the camper.
First I have to give props to a couple of tools that will make your life easier.
1st- my $20 harbor freight hand grinder. This thing has saved me more times then I can count. With some metal cut off wheels it made getting out the stuck shackle bolts a breeze. If you don't have one, run out and get one.
2nd- I have been hand packing bearings for years. It's messy, time consuming and a pain in the tuckus. So, for $6 I bought this little bearing packing tool. Packing the bearing is a breeze and a must have if you're going to pack your bearings each year.
You just pump grease into it until grease comes out around the bearing, smear the excess around the outside and you're done. I packed a bearing in a matter of seconds.
knocked out the back plates studs, you'll have replace them as they are too short. Depending on which kit you bought will determine if they came with your kit. I got the complete kit, so bearings, seal, wheel studs and backing plate bolts were all included.
Caliper mounting plate installed at the 9 o'clock position for the right side of the camper.
Torque specs for the suspension.
Hub installed
Caliper mounted and torqued.
Rinse, lather repeat......
Off to the other side before I tackle the brake lines. I gained 1" of much needed height to the camper due to the higher stack height of the 3500lb springs. Having trouble locating replacement shocks, you'd figure they'd use some off the shelf shock.
First I have to give props to a couple of tools that will make your life easier.
1st- my $20 harbor freight hand grinder. This thing has saved me more times then I can count. With some metal cut off wheels it made getting out the stuck shackle bolts a breeze. If you don't have one, run out and get one.
2nd- I have been hand packing bearings for years. It's messy, time consuming and a pain in the tuckus. So, for $6 I bought this little bearing packing tool. Packing the bearing is a breeze and a must have if you're going to pack your bearings each year.
You just pump grease into it until grease comes out around the bearing, smear the excess around the outside and you're done. I packed a bearing in a matter of seconds.
knocked out the back plates studs, you'll have replace them as they are too short. Depending on which kit you bought will determine if they came with your kit. I got the complete kit, so bearings, seal, wheel studs and backing plate bolts were all included.
Caliper mounting plate installed at the 9 o'clock position for the right side of the camper.
Torque specs for the suspension.
Hub installed
Caliper mounted and torqued.
Rinse, lather repeat......
Off to the other side before I tackle the brake lines. I gained 1" of much needed height to the camper due to the higher stack height of the 3500lb springs. Having trouble locating replacement shocks, you'd figure they'd use some off the shelf shock.
creeper
Well-known member
The kit is for 7k lb axles, but I have 6k axles. Gonna have to figure out where to go from here. Looking at my notes Kodiak gave me the wrong part number for my axles.
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creeper
Well-known member
Saw the lippert shocks, but found them online for $20, still have a couple of local places to try.
creeper
Well-known member
I got conflicting info on this, somebody told me I could just buy 9/16" lugs, then someone said you can't stuff 9/16" into 1/2" (which makes sense), somebody told me it doesn't matter with the flare on the nuts(not buying that one.). Been working on a solution all day. Will call Kodiak and give them a piece of my mind tomorrow. They were so cock sure on the part # even with all my axle information.
Might be making a trip to the machine shop to have the hubs drilled out and replace the studs and return the second set that haven't been mounted yet. .
jnbhobe
Well-known member
Just the stopping power is 100% better, they run cooler, are easier to maintain.
They most important thing is that they actually stop the trailer. There is no brake fade, never need adjusting and like Jon said they are easier to maintain. Only one moving part, the caliper.PeaceDave
Sounds like a good idea. I know my trailer, a northtrail31bdss, didn't have much stopping power at all right from new. I have had it going on third year now but maybe only 5-600 miles on it. I got a new f150 this winter with built in controller, so I'll see if its better. Sounds like I need to adjust the brakes. I had assumed they were self adjusting.
TXBobcat
Fulltime
I had my disk brakes installed by Mor/Ryde and if you haven't seen one those rotors (mine is for 8k axles) they are very heavy... Love the disk brakes. But from Kodiak in Ft. Worth, don't set your trailer brakes so they stop the TV. It wears the brake pads down quickly. They say this is one of the biggest problems people make when they have the disk brakes installed.
Something else, from what I was told by a Lippert Tech when they replaced my 6k axles when a spring broke, the shocks do not help at all and I could remove them, just make sure my tires are balanced...
BC
Something else, from what I was told by a Lippert Tech when they replaced my 6k axles when a spring broke, the shocks do not help at all and I could remove them, just make sure my tires are balanced...
BC
porthole
Retired
Never heard that, but the Kodiak kit uses standard GM brake pads. It would take longer to get the trailer jacked and the tires removed then it will to actually change out the pads, for those that can do this work. The ease of maintenance would dictate to me to "use" the trailer brakes.
Brake pads are one of the biggest money makers for repair shops. Many charge 2 hours labor for a job that only takes about 15-20 minutes.
Horizontally mounted shocks do nothing to increase ride comfort. Seems many trailer companies, not just HL, mount the shock more towards the horizontal then vertical.
Shocks have to be mounted in the the direction of spring travel to be effective.
creeper
Well-known member
Sorry for the lack of updates, but getting the wrong parts then parts backorder has put me in panic mode as we are leaving for our usual summer month long trip shortly and the wife will set me on fire if I don't finish up this 2 month project that was supposed to take a couple of weeks...
While waiting for the disc brakes I decided where to put the brake actuator. I was going to put it next to the slide hydraulics similar to Dave's installation, but it wouldn't fit, so it has to be in the front bay and I needed a mount. I ended up buying a piece of $15 flat stock iron and fabricated a mount. For those who don't have a welder handy, you can buy a mount from Carlisle.
A start, but the actuator is HEAVY.
Done, except the mounting holes. I really need some practice welding.
Mounted behind the second battery box.
Good fit.
Finally got the CORRECT parts from etrailer.com.
Discs mounted. New shocks I got from Bankston Motorhomes.com for $24 a piece. Lippert charges $45 a piece for the same shocks. Brake lines mounted.
I ended up dropping the bottom covers. The brake lines runs from the actuator, through an existing hole, under the basement storage, drilled a new hole and ran to left and right sides.
Actuator plumbed and through to the rear.
Time for some wiring, of course Heartland had to throw a surprised in there by not following standard plug color wiring.
To wire in A carlise actuator you are concerned with only three wire groups. You will turn the three wire groups into 4.
1. You will split the blue group wires. (see diagram below). Blue line from TV controller will go to blue wire on actuator. Blue cold side breakaway switch wire will go to yellow actuator wire.
You now have two groups.
2. Take white wire ground wire and add it to cluster of white wires which go to trailer and TV ground. You now have three groups.
3. Take black power wire from actuator and put in the 12v cluster that goes to 12v house battery and 12v TV.
I wanted to bypass my Ford integrated controller with a prodigy P3 vs the Carlisle adapter for the Ford trucks. I saw reviews which say the prodigy just does a better job. Well FYI it's not a plug and play operation. I mounted the P3, used an adapter wire and installed it. Well it does work by it gives you a dashboard error of a controller malfunction. Seems to get rid of the error message you have to bring it to Ford and have them program out the error message. Which of course is a hour labor $$. Since time is short I'm not sure I'll be able to get it into Ford to have it reprogramed. Starting to worry about the wife setting me on fire again, so I ordered the Carlise adapter anyway.
Bled the brakes, took care of the leaks and will have to button everything up and take a test rides
While waiting for the disc brakes I decided where to put the brake actuator. I was going to put it next to the slide hydraulics similar to Dave's installation, but it wouldn't fit, so it has to be in the front bay and I needed a mount. I ended up buying a piece of $15 flat stock iron and fabricated a mount. For those who don't have a welder handy, you can buy a mount from Carlisle.
A start, but the actuator is HEAVY.
Done, except the mounting holes. I really need some practice welding.
Mounted behind the second battery box.
Good fit.
Finally got the CORRECT parts from etrailer.com.
Discs mounted. New shocks I got from Bankston Motorhomes.com for $24 a piece. Lippert charges $45 a piece for the same shocks. Brake lines mounted.
I ended up dropping the bottom covers. The brake lines runs from the actuator, through an existing hole, under the basement storage, drilled a new hole and ran to left and right sides.
Actuator plumbed and through to the rear.
Time for some wiring, of course Heartland had to throw a surprised in there by not following standard plug color wiring.
To wire in A carlise actuator you are concerned with only three wire groups. You will turn the three wire groups into 4.
1. You will split the blue group wires. (see diagram below). Blue line from TV controller will go to blue wire on actuator. Blue cold side breakaway switch wire will go to yellow actuator wire.
You now have two groups.
2. Take white wire ground wire and add it to cluster of white wires which go to trailer and TV ground. You now have three groups.
3. Take black power wire from actuator and put in the 12v cluster that goes to 12v house battery and 12v TV.
I wanted to bypass my Ford integrated controller with a prodigy P3 vs the Carlisle adapter for the Ford trucks. I saw reviews which say the prodigy just does a better job. Well FYI it's not a plug and play operation. I mounted the P3, used an adapter wire and installed it. Well it does work by it gives you a dashboard error of a controller malfunction. Seems to get rid of the error message you have to bring it to Ford and have them program out the error message. Which of course is a hour labor $$. Since time is short I'm not sure I'll be able to get it into Ford to have it reprogramed. Starting to worry about the wife setting me on fire again, so I ordered the Carlise adapter anyway.
Bled the brakes, took care of the leaks and will have to button everything up and take a test rides
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TXBobcat
Fulltime
When I had the Disk Brakes installed on my Bighorn they never put the adapter on. I will get a warning that the brakes are not working but that is a false indication. I contacted Kodiak and asked them about the warning. They said the Ford Controller just did not pick up a response from the braking system, but it did not cause any problem. I have found this out to be true. However I had them send me an adapter that I could put in, but all it does is stop the false error.
Here is what they sent me.
BC
Here is what they sent me.
BC
TXBobcat
Fulltime
I did a little research on the Adapter and found this. In your signature you show a 2008 F350. If I am right you don't need one...
Hydrastar Controller Adapter, Carlisle Hydrastar Controller Adapter Ford Super Duty & Prodigy
Carlisle has introduced an add-on module that makes the 2005-2007 Ford OE in-dash controller compatible with the HydraStar line of trailer brake actuators. The “HydraStar Controller Adaptor Module” (model HBA-CAM) unit eliminates the false error messages* and HydraStar “clicking” generated by the Ford Two Command controller, an option on 2005-2007 F250/350 pickups. The HBA-CAM does not effect the operation of the Ford controller. Braking performance is unchanged. The HBA-CAM unit also eliminates false error messages generated by the Tekonsha Prodigy and Sentinel. The HBA-CAM is for use with Carlisle HydraStars only. It is not designed to be used with other manufacturer’s trailer brake actuators.
THE HBA-CAM IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 2008 AND LATER FORD CONTROLLER.
* Under laboratory testing it was possible to make the 2005 Ford Tow Command produce error codes even with the HBA-CAM installed. With the gain set at 2 or less, and rapidly cycling the manual braking switch for a minute or more, error codes could be seen. It is important to note that it is inconceivable that this condition would occur in normal vehicle and brake operation.
Note:
Some controller manufacturers state that their products are intended to be used only with electric brake systems. Using their controllers with the Hydrastar may cause the controller warranty to be null and void. The above controllers were tested with the Hydrastar and found to be compatible where indicated. Carlisle can only stand behind the controller that we actually sell.
No error indication is provided on the brake controller display in the event that the blue wire from the brake controller becomes disconnected from the HydraStar unit
Important Note for Hydrastar Owners
The HBA-CAM is intended for use with Carlisle’s Gen 5 and newer HydraStars only. Wiring the HBA-CAM to an older version HydraStar will damage the HBA-CAM.
GEN 5 and newer HydraStars have 4 wires and a bleeder fitting on top. If your HydraStar does not have these features, do not attach the HBA-CAM
http://www.hydrastar.com.au/brake-controllers/hba-cam/
Dexter Parts online
Hope this helps
BC
Hydrastar Controller Adapter, Carlisle Hydrastar Controller Adapter Ford Super Duty & Prodigy
Carlisle has introduced an add-on module that makes the 2005-2007 Ford OE in-dash controller compatible with the HydraStar line of trailer brake actuators. The “HydraStar Controller Adaptor Module” (model HBA-CAM) unit eliminates the false error messages* and HydraStar “clicking” generated by the Ford Two Command controller, an option on 2005-2007 F250/350 pickups. The HBA-CAM does not effect the operation of the Ford controller. Braking performance is unchanged. The HBA-CAM unit also eliminates false error messages generated by the Tekonsha Prodigy and Sentinel. The HBA-CAM is for use with Carlisle HydraStars only. It is not designed to be used with other manufacturer’s trailer brake actuators.
THE HBA-CAM IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE 2008 AND LATER FORD CONTROLLER.
* Under laboratory testing it was possible to make the 2005 Ford Tow Command produce error codes even with the HBA-CAM installed. With the gain set at 2 or less, and rapidly cycling the manual braking switch for a minute or more, error codes could be seen. It is important to note that it is inconceivable that this condition would occur in normal vehicle and brake operation.
Note:
Some controller manufacturers state that their products are intended to be used only with electric brake systems. Using their controllers with the Hydrastar may cause the controller warranty to be null and void. The above controllers were tested with the Hydrastar and found to be compatible where indicated. Carlisle can only stand behind the controller that we actually sell.
No error indication is provided on the brake controller display in the event that the blue wire from the brake controller becomes disconnected from the HydraStar unit
Important Note for Hydrastar Owners
The HBA-CAM is intended for use with Carlisle’s Gen 5 and newer HydraStars only. Wiring the HBA-CAM to an older version HydraStar will damage the HBA-CAM.
GEN 5 and newer HydraStars have 4 wires and a bleeder fitting on top. If your HydraStar does not have these features, do not attach the HBA-CAM
http://www.hydrastar.com.au/brake-controllers/hba-cam/
Dexter Parts online
Hope this helps
BC
creeper
Well-known member
BC, I think that is old information left on their site. Also on their site.
http://www.carlislebrake.com/pdfs/controllerCompatibility2010.pdf
From another resource.
Carlisle Accessories and Parts - HBA-CAM
This Carlisle control adapter module will make your Gen 5/Gen 6 or later HydraStar electric-over-hydraulic brake actuator compatible with certain models of electric brake controllers.
Features:
Notes:
I also confirmed this with the kooky supplier I ordered from that it will work with the 2008 Ford controller.
You are correct , I have confirmed the error message is a false error. It's just annoying and does not effect the prodigy brake controller. Prodigy confirmed it and sent me a bulletin for ford on how to remove it as all techs don't know how to do it.
But, I'll confirm with Carlisle on Monday to quadruple check on Monday. With all the wrong information and wrong part numbers I've gotten from "parts suppliers" anything is possible.
UPDATE: I contacted Carlisle and got the following response from Barry Hansel of Carlisle.
In order for your HydraStar to work with your 2008 Ford, you will need the
HBA-CAM installed on your trailer wired into the HydraStar.
I have attached information on the HBA-CAM.
Barry Hansel
Carlisle Industrial Brake
My HBA-Cam has arrived, so I'll test the prodigy and the integrated controller.
http://www.carlislebrake.com/pdfs/controllerCompatibility2010.pdf
From another resource.
Carlisle Accessories and Parts - HBA-CAM
This Carlisle control adapter module will make your Gen 5/Gen 6 or later HydraStar electric-over-hydraulic brake actuator compatible with certain models of electric brake controllers.
Features:
- Makes Gen 6 and newer HydraStar electric-hydraulic brake actuators compatible with the following OEM brake controllers
- Ford factory controller (2007 - 2008)
- GM/Chevrolet/Factory (2007 - 2011)
- Serial number
- HBA-10 - 313800 and higher
- HBA16 - 506100 and higher
- Mounts anywhere and splices into HydraStar's wiring
- Resists weather and shock - sealed in anodized aluminum case
- Made in the USA
Notes:
- Check with manufacturer for specific applications
- Do not use the HBA-CAM with HydraStar models older than Gen 5
- Gen 5 and newer HydraStars have a bleeder fitting on top and 4 wire leads
I also confirmed this with the kooky supplier I ordered from that it will work with the 2008 Ford controller.
You are correct , I have confirmed the error message is a false error. It's just annoying and does not effect the prodigy brake controller. Prodigy confirmed it and sent me a bulletin for ford on how to remove it as all techs don't know how to do it.
But, I'll confirm with Carlisle on Monday to quadruple check on Monday. With all the wrong information and wrong part numbers I've gotten from "parts suppliers" anything is possible.
UPDATE: I contacted Carlisle and got the following response from Barry Hansel of Carlisle.
In order for your HydraStar to work with your 2008 Ford, you will need the
HBA-CAM installed on your trailer wired into the HydraStar.
I have attached information on the HBA-CAM.
Barry Hansel
Carlisle Industrial Brake
My HBA-Cam has arrived, so I'll test the prodigy and the integrated controller.
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