Just A Bit Disappointed!

[Gzopete]

I wanted to start of thanking everyone that responded to our last post

We cut our vacation short because of the freezing issue I am a little ticked off about that! We didn't have the best of luck with our less then a year old coach. We ended up having three water leaks and two frozen days without water. Two of the water leaks were fixed with a little effort. The third is awaiting a trip to the shop.

Ok here is my BEEF!! We all have enclosed underbellies as far as I know? Correct me if I am wrong. We all a furnaces that blow our $$'s down to said underbellies. I had a nice conversation with a Heartland Employee who will go nameless at this time. I was told by said employee that our coach wasn't a four season coach. OK I said so tell me about this Zero degree test that Heartland boasts about on their website. He informs me that this test is without water. I Asked him what good is that? I got an well not so good answer. Now Who uses their coach without water please stand up and be counted. "I though so" This is like sending a car down a hugh hill without gas and saying it gets 100 Mpg. If that was my car and i bought it because of that test i would be P*** off, So I asked this employee at what temp should i start to worry about the cold? I was told about 35 degrees. Now I don't understand something here. If the coach is not rated for cold weather why am i dumping my heat down a hole that shouldn't be getting that cold? Now something or someone isn't being honest here? I have a sticker on the side of my coach that has a Snowflake and the Sun on it. I would assume that everyone else has this same sticker. "Weatherguard" I believe? Now I am no rocket scientist don't you need cold weather to make snow? It just doesn't make since to me?

So I have to go out and spend more money on a issue that I shouldn't have to spend money on in the first place. These RV's are not cheap! I know I don't have extra money laying around to throw at this problem!

 

[Cyncwby]

You know something sir...I don't blame you a bit for being p****d off. Maybe someone from Heartland can explain the temp thing.

 

[Gzopete]

My last 2¢......

I don't understand why a unit that is new has so many things wrong with it. I have had my share of new cars and I think the amount of little things that have gone wrong with them could be counted on one hand. Now in the first 9 months of ownership I have had little and major things go wrong with this unit. I had an awning motor replaced, a door shifted out of alignment that the deadbolt wouldn't throw and now doesn't open smoothly. Basement doors that wouldn't latch. Had to be adjusted twice and the parts replaced. I've also had the wiring under the slide shred to bits needing to be replaced. The rubber blade under that same slide has needed to be replaced and is on the list to be replace again. I have needed the slide adjusted. The fuel station was leaking. The biggest one of them all was the vent hose for the fresh water hose was crushed and looped between the floor and the frame. I know I am forgetting a bunch of items and I bet there are a bunch more.

I know that people will live with stuff that isn't right. I just don't understand how a company can put out such crap. I know that Heartland is doing a better job then most and they have fixed everything that has gone wrong with the coach and they will fix everything before the year is up. Thats is only if I find the problems and know that it is a problem. I think a lot of the problems have been with the dealers that are just not doing there job, But we can't blame them for a product that isn't quite right from the start.

If my first car pulled to the right and I didn't know that it shouldn't do that how do I know that it is a problem. The ppl that build these units should be putting in more time going over these units with a fine tooth comb. Why is it my job to do something that someone else has been paid to do? I already worked to make the money to buy the trailer! If I wanted a project I would of bought someone else's SOB trailer. I bought a new Trailer not a kit! I put my cash down for this trailer expecting that someone knows what they are doing?

Another thing that is so strange to me is the cooling and heating system. It seem to me that more then one person has had problems with vents not going right. Why should i have to pull vents to see if they are hooked up? Why should there be dead ends for AC? Why should I have to put deflectors in the AC vents? These units are small and need every ounce of heating and cooling. I don't think a new trailer should need mods. If it is broke or the company wasn't to busy counting the money and fixing mistake we would all be a lot happier and Heartland would have a name that couldn't be beat.

I understand things go wrong but how many day of a limited vacation have been lost because some jerk didn't do his job! Those are days that we are not going to get back ppl. When is America going to wake up and see that our pride in workmanship SUCKS! OH we'll just fix this *** down the line! Why not fix this stuff before the customer has to pack everything up and haul it down to the Stealer Ship AGAIN! I don't work for free and I don't think you guys do as well. I work hard for my money! I just don't show up for work and make some piece of **** and expect some other guy down the line to fix my laziness. I don't get paid unless I do a good job! Now a days money is tight! So you would think a company that runs on ppl's extra money would try to do a better job. There are a lot of companies that have fallen by the wayside that won't be coming back! Wake up ppl!

My Rant!

 

[Natesi]

I think this is what the Zero Degrees test said on the website:

"Heartland’s aluminum-framed, laminated fiberglass sidewall construction (most models) has proven to be exceptionally energy efficient, having passed the tests in Dometic’s extreme temperature chamber with flying colors. This chamber takes the temperature down to ZERO degrees - followed by heating it up to 100 degrees to test both the heating and cooling systems."

Note: It says they tested the heating and cooling systems. It does't say how, to what extent, or what the pass/fail criteria was. It just says they tested it and it passed. It would probably be safe to say, that at a minimum, a "pass" would be that the heating and cooling systems RAN. Woopty doo -- this isn't telling us hardly anything. It's just a picture and some fancy words to give potential customes the warm and fuzzies.

When I first went to their website, I honestly **did** notice that the test did not say anything about water systems freezing because I was very curious about that -- so I read it carefully and assumed that that this test did not involve the water systems (since it wasn't stated and that's a pretty important thing). BUT I work in quality control and am use to reading what is stated (specifications) very carefully -- along with what is not stated. Most people's brains are not trained to work like mine.

I do think someone who isn't as detail oriented as me would not have noticed this. To me (and probably MOST people), the main reason for testing cold temperatures would be to test the most vulnerable and likely system to break -- the water system. Plus, like you said, there's a sticker with a snowflake on the trailer itself; which would imply that it's intended for use at temperatures at which it snows. I think the Zero Degrees test and the snowflake are deceptive. It's obviously a marketing decision to sell more RVs but I think they are walking a fine line.

 

[Natesi]

When is America going to wake up and see that our pride in workmanship SUCKS! OH we'll just fix this *** down the line!

The funny thing is, wealthy Chinese consider American made items "luxury" and pay a huge premium for them. When I learned that I thought that was quite strange.

Now a days money is tight! So you would think a company that runs on ppl's extra money would try to do a better job.

Tight? I guess you didn't hear about the trillion or so dollars that the Fed has already injected, nor their fabulous 0% rate?!? Yeah!! WOO HOOO... FREE MONEY FOR EVERYONE!!! You should get you some! Yeah, that would be cool -- well, if you weren't at the bottom of the food chain, like me and 99% of everyone else in America.

= )

But seriously: Just kidding ya... I know what you mean.

 

[cliffbuilt]

Subscribed,

Gzopete, please keep this thread going with info about how these issues are handled /resolved by Heartland & your dealer. We had a busy 1st year at the dealer with issues but all were corrected to our satisfaction, I know that doesn't help with a spoiled vacation, so hang in there, we enjoy winter camping also and there are some obvious issues that need to be addressed to make these rigs survive freezing temps.

Good luck,
Cliff

 

[caissiel]

I have a Big country 3500RL and live in Canada. We lived in our trailer for 3 weeks this fall that the temperature was below freezing every morning. Some nights it was in the 20's and never had a freezing problem. The water was not connected, I used the pump everyday, dumped when I had to and did the washing any time we needed to. I made sure the furnace was on and used the Fireplace most of the time. The only thing that worried me was the Freshwater drain that I made an insulating box to cover. I will address this next summer. I did open up the under belly cover to install my Hydraulic hoses this summer, and I made sure the insulation was placed in correctly. The furnace in my unit draws its return air from the basement, same area as the tanks and no more then 10ft from the fresh water tank. All the water lines are in the same area as the furnace draws the room temperature air through the return from the Kitchen area. I set the temperature for the furnace at 65 and the Fireplace at around room temperature. We left for a trip to Las Vegas for one week and just left the furnace running at 55F and no other heating system and came home and everything was good. Most of the nights were under freezing, during the time we were gone. I truly feel safe to use this trailer in the colder weather because it is much better insulated then the previous one that I already spent an entire winter with temperatures in the -20F range. I am not saying that I would just leave it as its set-up, skirting and other source of protection would be required but we have to realize that the unit is an RV.

 

[grizzlygiant]

I,too, am disapointed in the "Zero" capabilities of my 2009 Sundance. When temperatures reach mid 20's we have frozen water lines in spite of pouring propane to the heater. I don't know what will happen when the temperature drops to zero. Since we are parked and set up for the winter a trip to a dealer is not possible.

I have been a strong Heartland supporter (2nd Heartland) but this defect will certainly affect my future recommendations. Sure wish Heartland could help out!

 

[tcbrady]

Gzopete,
I'd like to get a little more info about your experiences with your Cyclone. Could you call me at the office when you get an opportunity (574-266-3776).

thanks! Coley

 

[porthole]

I didn't buy our Cyclone thinking it was 4 season trailer and no where was I led to believe it was a 4 season unit. I would think that if you are seeing 20 F weather you are in the "4th" season and expecting too much.

I did look at a few "true" 4 season trailers and they each had the same bottom line - over 100K in cost.

 

[azbound]

I just spent 2 weeks with nighttime lows between 16 and 25 and nothing in my BH froze. Are the Bighorns rated for lower temps?

 

[boatdoc]

I didn't buy our Cyclone thinking it was 4 season trailer and no where was I led to believe it was a 4 season unit. I would think that if you are seeing 20 F weather you are in the "4th" season and expecting too much.

I did look at a few "true" 4 season trailers and they each had the same bottom line - over 100K in cost.

Need to pull them with a Volvo Simi also!!! Not all of us have one of those laying around.

 

[Rockerga]

Dump Valves Froze!

I maintain heat tape on my water lines all winter no matter the temps. We camped this holiday season from the day after Christmas until an abrupt end on Sunday 1/3/10.

We were forced to leave camp when both our dump valves froze solid. We never encountered any temperatures below 17 degrees.

...and I am in N. Georgia so it was not at that extreme temperature for a long time. This is our "first winter" in the NT and I have to say its the last. I need something that can go where I go and still work. I can put a "work-around" in place but I should not have to given the claims!

 

[Bob&Patty]

Steve and others. JMHO..but you bought a... TRAILER ...not a house with a foundation and water pipes buried underground. My daughters home in Montana has water pipes that freeze sometimes. As to snow, at 0* it probably will not snow. We went camping this weekend and it was freezing every nite and no frozen pipes. But I had already made some mods to keep the water lines from freezing. If you want to go camping in -11 degree's then go for it. I would be surprised if your truck would start at that temperature after the fuel turned to jello. In the mid-west all the water lines are buried below the frost line...probably 4-6'. I guess Im not sure what owners want from a TRAILER in below freezing temperatures. Still JMHO.......Bob

 

[lwmcguir]

Excel Fifth Wheels are tested to -10F with water and guaranteed in case any one needs that. They don't make the larger units yet, however they do have some nice campers.

 

[Natesi]

I guess Im not sure what owners want from a TRAILER in below freezing temperatures.

That's the thing -- what's a reasonable expectation?

Scenario 1: What would a reasonable person expect from an average 5th wheel? This average 5th wheel doesn't make any claims to about cold weather protection and there are no all-season stickers on the trailer. The warranty is also void if the dealer or manufacturer finds out you "full time" in it.

Take a second to think about it...

OK...

Scenario 2: A competitor to "average 5th wheel". What would a reasonable person expect when they see "Zero Degrees Tested" on the website, AND a snowflake sticker on the trailer? Something designed with colder weather in mind, right??? Plus a warranty that isn't voided by full-time use. I mean, it kinda points in the direction of something that should handle some mild freezing, right? Or no?

I don't know -- I'm just throwing this out there -- thinking "out loud".


Me personally -- for scenario 1, I think a reasonable expectation would be full operation of all systems down to freezing. For scenario 2, I think a reasonable expectation would be full operation of all systems at freezing and a bit below [say 27 - 32 degrees F (only 5 degrees below freezing)], but perhaps as low as 0. ...although 0 is such an audacious claim I would think it would grab a potential customer's attention enough to "look into it", or at least ask their sales rep about it.

But like I said -- I'm a detail oriented research fiend. So, I caught that the Zero test had nothing to do with the water systems and I also found out that the "four seasons" sticker gets applied with dual-pane windows (which of course wont' do much for the pipes). Then I came on here and started doing lots of reading and asking lots of questions.

So, the freezing issue that the OP is experiencing is no shock to me. But I can understand how an average person excited to buy their new 5th wheel and who didn't spend months diving into a single brand & model might have missed those things and believed their coach was somehow designed for use in freezing temperatures.

But that's just me.

 

[JohnDar]

Maybe Heartland should offer something like this.

 

[Natesi]

Maybe Heartland should offer something like this.

Doesn't look winterized.

:angel:

But maybe if you put a sticker on it....

 

[jmgratz]

Needs a full body paint job.

 

[TXBobcat]

I think experience is also part of the scenario. I have owned a couple of trailers. Before all the great additions we used light to keep things from freezing. Great thing a 150 Watt light bulb is..

The temperature here outside of Dallas has gotten down to 24* and I have not had anything freeze. Well it hasn't been that way for a number of consecutive days. The temperature is forcast to be down to mid to low teen on Wednesday through Friday but will get up above freezing during most of the days. 10 Days of weather here.

The temp in my basement has never gone below 54*. It may very well on Wednesday and Thursday. I do not expect any freezing, however I am dumping all tanks tomorrow. My light bulbs can only do so much.

That's what I do...
BC