Landmark - Hydraulic hose / fitting failures

[danemayer]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

I had a leak in the front compartment 5 years ago. Very messy but not particularly smelly. And once cleaned up and leak repaired, no further issues from having had the Automatic Transmission Fluid spill.

I'm not sure I'd want to have the underbelly steam cleaned. But I would want the coroplast cleaned/replaced along with the insulation. And any pex lines or wires should be cleaned, but maybe by hand.

 

[BigGuy82]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

I had a leak in the front compartment 5 years ago. Very messy but not particularly smelly. And once cleaned up and leak repaired, no further issues from having had the Automatic Transmission Fluid spill.

I'm not sure I'd want to have the underbelly steam cleaned. But I would want the coroplast cleaned/replaced along with the insulation. And any pex lines or wires should be cleaned, but maybe by hand.

Why not steam clean?

 

[danemayer]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Why not steam clean?

For one thing, how the materials in the underbelly, including the underside of the floor, would react to steam is an unknown to me and I wouldn't want to run that experiment. For another, sometimes when you say "steam clean", people hear "pressure clean". Again, not sure how the materials would react.

 

[BigGuy82]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

For one thing, how the materials in the underbelly, including the underside of the floor, would react to steam is an unknown to me and I wouldn't want to run that experiment. For another, sometimes when you say "steam clean", people hear "pressure clean". Again, not sure how the materials would react.

Agreed. I wouldn't use pressure cleaning. Steam cleaning works great on my annual Corvette engine cleaning, so wires would be ok. Don't know about the flooring. - could be a problem. I'd think Heartland would know - probably not the first time that they've encountered this. Personally, I'd get all of that crap out of there, regardless of what it took.

 

[sengli]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

They dont use brake fluid in these hydraulic systems. Isnt it like automotive ATF. Wow that would be a mess. We found a SOB rig on a lot once new for sale, and it was dripping hydraulic fluid from the under belly too.

 

[BillGott]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Yes transmission fluid is used the as far as you can see it is soaked above the coroplast. I would like it replaced as well as my friend, who camps with us all the time and owns a transmission shop, says the transmission fluid in the fiberglass insulation in highly flammable. I am trying to attach a photo of the insulation dripping. Sorry it is upside down. Luck for me I have a great wife who fit under the axles and worked that area for me.

 

[BigGuy82]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

They dont use brake fluid in these hydraulic systems. Isnt it like automotive ATF. Wow that would be a mess. We found a SOB rig on a lot once new for sale, and it was dripping hydraulic fluid from the under belly too.

Good to know.

If I was the fella with this problem, I'd still get an MSDS from Heartland - it's the only way to know what's in the stuff and what problems, if any, it can cause.

 

[BillGott]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

How would you feel looking at this 6 times in 16 months? This one like 3 others blew off the fitting. Other 2 developed bubbles between the inner and outer layer at the fitting then the outer layer would burst and fluid leak everywhere. All from bad crimps.

 

[BigGuy82]

Re: ATF: Landmark - SCREAMING

Yes transmission fluid is used the as far as you can see it is soaked above the coroplast. I would like it replaced as well as my friend, who camps with us all the time and owns a transmission shop, says the transmission fluid in the fiberglass insulation in highly flammable. I am trying to attach a photo of the insulation dripping. Sorry it is upside down. Luck for me I have a great wife who fit under the axles and worked that area for me.

Obviously, you know this so don't take offense - but better safe than sorry.

Shut off the fridge, furnace and any other ignition source you can think of.

Good luck with this whole thing.

 

[BillGott]

UPDATE
Well the saga continues as we were told on Friday afternoon by the dealer Landmark had refused to replace any of the hoses. They will pay for new insulation, radiant barrier and plastic bottom barrier. There is evidence of fluid seeping at other fitting and I will be talking to Heartland this am. No matter what all the lines will be replaced. As a structural engineer we deal with failure rates all the time. The percentage of failure of 7 ends out of 40 in 15 months is off the charts for statistical probability for future failures. This will be the last time we are stuck at a campground because of a hydraulic line failure. I will post tonight how I make out with the factory.

 

[BigGuy82]

UPDATE
Well the saga continues as we were told on Friday afternoon by the dealer Landmark had refused to replace any of the hoses. They will pay for new insulation, radiant barrier and plastic bottom barrier. There is evidence of fluid seeping at other fitting and I will be talking to Heartland this am. No matter what all the lines will be replaced. As a structural engineer we deal with failure rates all the time. The percentage of failure of 7 ends out of 40 in 15 months is off the charts for statistical probability for future failures. This will be the last time we are stuck at a campground because of a hydraulic line failure. I will post tonight how I make out with the factory.

I'm not sure you mentioned this previously, but is the coach still in warranty or is Heartland doing this "gratis"? If it's under warranty, I'm surprised.

I'm not that familiar with the actual crimping procedure, but can the remaining ends be "re-crimped"? I agree that a 17.5% failure rate is high - in fact in my book, it's astronomical and of course, other fittings can be expected to fail moving forward.

Also, have you been directly in touch with Heartland? Often, direct contact with any manufacturer can help.

No need to answer me on the above of course - just some ideas. Replacing or repairing them all is the right move, regardless of who pays. Good luck with this - certainly not a small problem.

 

[BillGott]

It is still under warranty. I have not heard back from Heartland yet. I have been talking to Ron at the factory and he has said wait until the dealer writes it up and makes the request. Now I am awaiting a return call. You cannot re-crimp the fittings. Looking at the failed fittings it appeared the crimping tool had not applied proper pressure on 2 side of the fitting. You can see it in the failed fittings but cannot see it on the ones that have not blown off because the hose hides it. Besides being an engineer I am also a General Contractor and deal with heavy equipment every day. I have never seen a fitting blow off the end of a hose on any piece of equipment in 40 years of construction. Hoses rubbed through or continuous bending of a hose resulting in cracking are how we see hydraulic hose failure.

 

[Abear79]

I had the same defect with my gateway. After the 3rd time I had hoses break on me. I got the new braided hoses made up local no more problems.

 

[BigGuy82]

I had the same defect with my gateway. After the 3rd time I had hoses break on me. I got the new braided hoses made up local no more problems.

Is it the hoses or the crimped fittings that are the problem?

 

[BillGott]

The crimped ends have either blown off the hose or a bubble has formed between the 2 layer of plastic pipe at the fitting and blown out.

 

[Abear79]

Is it the hoses or the crimped fittings that are the problem?

Most of the failures blew the crimped end off. But I had some bubbling of lines also.

 

[Abear79]

I know Its aggravating. We got stuck in Mississippi and Texas with hose problems. and in state also. Did you call and speak to Heartland Customer service? Good people usually try to make it right. I just hope you dont fall out of love with your coach for a shipment of faulty hoses. If your dealer is not making you happy, talk to Heartland Customer service and give them a try. I have 5 slides and had to push all of them in by hand and strap them for safety. I use to dread seeing the oil reservoir empty. The under-liner bubbled with oil. All good now, we love our Heartland so much. Would not want any other coach for at least another 10 years.

 

[Apropdoc]

In my line of work dealing with low and high pressure pnedraulic/hydraulic systems, the type of materials used in making lines is dependent on pressures to be encountered i.e. SS 1/4 HP line is used for 3000+ psi lines. in the picture where a blown line is shown, it looks as if the fitting was over-crimped and it failed at the crimp. If a line is under-crimped, the hose will separate cleanly from the fitting (in most cases). In my professional opinion, do not try to re-crimp the fittings on, you will only further weakening the hose. I suggest getting the lines replaced with stainless steel or Kevlar braided Teflon/nylon hydraulic hoses and stainless steel fittings. These are a mainstay in the aviation industry and have been picked up by the automotive industry lately as well. Always use hoses rated to 20% higher pressures than what the typical system pressures are. If you do try to clean up the fluid, use a non flammable material like crushed kitty litter to absorb, then clean up with a detergent.
Sorry that so many are having problems with their hydraulic systems.

 

[BillGott]

Abear79 no my wife and I love out Landmark. The dealer is bad real bad. I am waiting for a call back from Heartland Customer service. I have talked with my companies attorney and am now following his advice. I have requested a quote from the dealer to replace all lines with braided steel lines. I plan on sending the lines to a testing lab along with blown hoses and fittings if things don't work out with Heartland. While I do understand that breakdowns happen we cannot keep up with the stress of these breakdowns.

 

[Abear79]

Abear79 no my wife and I love out Landmark. The dealer is bad real bad. I am waiting for a call back from Heartland Customer service. I have talked with my companies attorney and am now following his advice. I have requested a quote from the dealer to replace all lines with braided steel lines. I plan on sending the lines to a testing lab along with blown hoses and fittings if things don't work out with Heartland. While I do understand that breakdowns happen we cannot keep up with the stress of these breakdowns.

When Heartland got back with us they even got us in contact with a better shop. Not only we were at odds with the shop where we purchased our coach. It was hour and a half drive. Plus my brand new 5th wheel was sitting at the shop not getting used and not undercover. Don't get me wrong the sales department was great where we purchased from, but the shop was the weak link. I ended up speaking with Costumer Services and the rest is history. But you are years ahead of me. I wish I would have found this website before last year. The only good thing that came from me having blow max tires on my coach is this forum. Thats another story. lol unless you have tow maxx tires on your coach and you need to change them like last month.