Landmark - wheel bearing - wheel lost
- Thread starter DougS
- Start date
Grand Canyon at the Grand Canyon. We made it and are back on schedule. We must have stopped about 12 times today to check rear axle. I guess it will take some time to have confidence again.
Traveling to the Grand Canyon we drove through some snow, just enough to cover the roads.
Julio came by himself, and you are right, he is a good guy. When Julio tried to take the nut off the axle, it was froze to the threads and cotter pin missing. Not sure if that had anything to do with the bearing failure.
Traveling to the Grand Canyon we drove through some snow, just enough to cover the roads.
Julio came by himself, and you are right, he is a good guy. When Julio tried to take the nut off the axle, it was froze to the threads and cotter pin missing. Not sure if that had anything to do with the bearing failure.
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
Doug, very well could have. A loose bearing won't last very long. You should check the wheel bearing tightness every so often. The nut should be snug to the bearing..not tight. It's best to have the wheel off the ground so you can spin it and see if there is any drag on it from the bearing. About once a year I will pull out the outer bearing and look at it. If it has a blueish tint, then it's running hot. The other thing to look for is a flaking off of the bearing material. I check mine when I add grease thru the jerk fitting. It's just one of those things that you need to kick and sniff once in a while.
I was able to get some parts from Hooper Trailer Sales, Tularose, NM, steel rim and lugs. This retired gent makes Utility trailers, but he seems to knows his business. Cloudcroft is a nice little mountain town with limited businesses. As for my problem, Lippert stepped up to the plate and sent a new axle, bearings, and seals overnight. A Lippert Tec showed up 1/2 hour after parts from Arizona.
We are now stuck again in Colorado, this time due to a death in the family. We flew back to Florida, flying back to Colorado on Tuesday. I hope to still make part of the rally, but it looks slim. I still plan to go ahead with the upgrade of axles to 8K.
DougS
We are now stuck again in Colorado, this time due to a death in the family. We flew back to Florida, flying back to Colorado on Tuesday. I hope to still make part of the rally, but it looks slim. I still plan to go ahead with the upgrade of axles to 8K.
DougS
Hi,
Sorry to hear of all the bearing problems and you are all probably back from you Summer trips but maybe this info will help you or others. After 35 years experience as an automotive instructor and just recently purchasing a NT 24-RBS and reading extensively on these forums there seems to be a real lack of wheel bearing understanding. I've posted this info in some other areas but here it is again.
I can't believe cars/trucks are much different than TT's. We packed the bearings when we did break jobs, usually around 30K-to 40K miles and not before. Why should TT wheel bearings be serviced annually??? That makes no sense to me. Always use the best lub you can get. Synthetic lubes are far superior to regular grease and it's always my first choice. That goes for engine oil as well. My first choice is Mobil 1. Correct wheel bearing adjustment is the next issue. Correct wheel side to side movement should be about .003. Grab the tire at 6 and 12 and try to move the wheel side to side. If you just barely feel movement it's close to correct. If you feel none or a lot then it's not correct. I'm not convinced that china bearing are at fault. Yes I would also like to use Timken bearings but many have said that they have China bearings and they work fine. I believe it's more the fault of sloppy and poorly trained technicians. I also do not like the idea of squirting some lube into the hub every year just as a stop gap measure. If that procedure was never employed on Detroit's cars and trucks why would you use it on TT's?? If just packing the bearings every 40-K miles worked then why wouldn't it work on TT's?? It's been mentioned that boats use that technique because they have to go into the water to launch the boat. You have to get the water out some how.
One other point. The size of the bearing determines the load that they will bear safely. If you've packed car bearings you noticed that the inner was always larger than the outer. The alignment angle was set so that the majority of the weight was placed on the inner bearing. I'm sure that TT manufacturers place large enough bearings to bear the load that is going to be placed on them. It would make no sense to put smaller bearings on them to save a few bucks. So if the bearings are large enough (provided we don't overload them) then premature failure has to be due to either a poor quality or no lube, or bearing adjustment. Both of these items can be taken care of my a good repair shop or the owner. The first thing that I did when we got our NT was to R&R, pack and adjust all wheel bearings for peace of mind. Because of the frequent bearing problems owners seem to have on these forums I highly recommend that for all.
TeJay
Sorry to hear of all the bearing problems and you are all probably back from you Summer trips but maybe this info will help you or others. After 35 years experience as an automotive instructor and just recently purchasing a NT 24-RBS and reading extensively on these forums there seems to be a real lack of wheel bearing understanding. I've posted this info in some other areas but here it is again.
I can't believe cars/trucks are much different than TT's. We packed the bearings when we did break jobs, usually around 30K-to 40K miles and not before. Why should TT wheel bearings be serviced annually??? That makes no sense to me. Always use the best lub you can get. Synthetic lubes are far superior to regular grease and it's always my first choice. That goes for engine oil as well. My first choice is Mobil 1. Correct wheel bearing adjustment is the next issue. Correct wheel side to side movement should be about .003. Grab the tire at 6 and 12 and try to move the wheel side to side. If you just barely feel movement it's close to correct. If you feel none or a lot then it's not correct. I'm not convinced that china bearing are at fault. Yes I would also like to use Timken bearings but many have said that they have China bearings and they work fine. I believe it's more the fault of sloppy and poorly trained technicians. I also do not like the idea of squirting some lube into the hub every year just as a stop gap measure. If that procedure was never employed on Detroit's cars and trucks why would you use it on TT's?? If just packing the bearings every 40-K miles worked then why wouldn't it work on TT's?? It's been mentioned that boats use that technique because they have to go into the water to launch the boat. You have to get the water out some how.
One other point. The size of the bearing determines the load that they will bear safely. If you've packed car bearings you noticed that the inner was always larger than the outer. The alignment angle was set so that the majority of the weight was placed on the inner bearing. I'm sure that TT manufacturers place large enough bearings to bear the load that is going to be placed on them. It would make no sense to put smaller bearings on them to save a few bucks. So if the bearings are large enough (provided we don't overload them) then premature failure has to be due to either a poor quality or no lube, or bearing adjustment. Both of these items can be taken care of my a good repair shop or the owner. The first thing that I did when we got our NT was to R&R, pack and adjust all wheel bearings for peace of mind. Because of the frequent bearing problems owners seem to have on these forums I highly recommend that for all.
TeJay
I'm also not a big fan of repacking bearings on a time frame, I keep track of mileage and repack bearings on miles, not time. I just wish I could keep bearings on for more then a couple of months and more then 3,500 miles. As I said in an earlier post I hope it was just bad luck, of all of the thousands of bearings and axles, I was the unlucky one. As an update, I now have 8k axles on the rig done on June 24 by Lippert. My question is do I trust the new axles with bearings or do I take the bearings apart just to check the work of professionals? I have less then 2,000 miles on the new axles. I also had RV weighed at the Goshen rally, and I am under the weight limits, with the same things I normally travel with. I keep my fingers crossed and my eyes fixed on my rear axles while traveling.
When I first bought my BH (used) the brakes were really poor. As suspected, there was grease all over the linings and magnets. Therefore, the first think I did was removed the stupid zerk fittings in the end of the spindles and throw them away. I also replaced the open bearing caps with closed caps ( open caps have to be a potential path for dirt). I believe the best method is to pull the wheels perodically, clean and check the bearings and repack them. I use syn grease and knock on wood, I've owned 6 RVs and have done all of them that way and luckly only had one bearing problem. That problem was with another brand 5er, it was new and I had a bearing running hot from day one, guess what, I pulled the wheel and almost no grease. So no I don't trust the factory to have greased them properly. As mentioned earlier, bearing maintenace needs to be performed correctly but not daily. The stupid "Eazy Lube" system IMHO is a invitation for trouble. Boat trailers use them because usually when a boat reaches the dock the wheels will be somewhat warm. When the trailer is backed into the cooler water it tends to cool the wheel and actually suck water into the hubs, hence the lube fittings provide a method of pushing the water back out afterward. Still even boat owners will tell you it's prudent to pull those wheels fairly often, clean, check and repack. Sorry for the novel.
I have no experience with the Dexter Nev-R-Lube system. It may do an excellent job of lubricating the bearings and that's great. Not everyone has the Dexter set up. My concern and reason for offering the information is for those who have the mistaken idea that squirting a few shots of grease periodically into each axle will take the place of proper packing and adjusting wheels bearings. It has been said that to use that method you have to raise the wheel off the ground and rotate it as the grease is introduced. that may work OK but I'm still no going to take the chance. I really hate to see TT's stuck away from home with a problem that maybe could have been avoided with some up to date knowledge and following proper procedures. TedS you are correct about wheel bearings. With the advent of FWD vehicles it is seldom that we have to pack bearings. The fronts are lubed by the tranaxle fluid and the rears are a sealed unit. That may also mean that fewer technicians are aware of the proper bearing packing and adjustment procedure. I'll say it again. If you can do-it-yourself then I would. Use a good synthetic grease (Mobil 1 or Amzoil). Use as good a seal as you can find. I used NAPA for 30 years. One might also search some local truck shops for better quality parts. Perform the correct bearing adjustment. When you are cleaning the bearings before they are repacked I never used solvent. The solvent dissolves the grease but removing the solvent is very difficult and any remaining might compromised the new grease. Secondly, when wiping the bearings with a shop towel look at the grease. If you see any little sparkles the bearing has been overheated, its lost it hardness and it is in failure mode, replace it. If you don't have the tools or knowledge to do it yourself then try to find a good technician to do it for you. Think about this also. The bearing grease if properly packed into the bearings has to work for 30 - 40-K miles and it does not flow like oil. It stays in that area because of its properties. I called it the greases sticktuitiveness. So packing the grease into the bearings is very important. You can do it by hand by forcing the grease into the side until it pushed the old lube out the other side. I also never packed the hub full of grease. I did place a 1/4" layer inside the hub to help control condensation. Packing the hub full in my mind reduces the ability to dissipate any heat build up. Remember if you pack the hub full that grease will never move around and never get any nearer to the actual rotating bearing services so why put it there in the first place.
Hope this helps some.
TeJay
Hope this helps some.
TeJay
jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
Keep in mind how your RV gets from the factory to the dealer. In almost all instances it is done by a transport company. IMHO most of them hook up and drag the RV from Elkhart to the dealer without checking brake adjustment or wheel bearings. If they do anything they might shoot 3 or 4 or 5 pumps from the grease gun into the wheel bearing. Hence over-greasing them causing braking problems. I will almost guarantee none of the transport drivers will adjust any brakes before leaving. MHO.
Ray LeTourneau
Senior Member - Past Moderator
My thoughts on trailer bearings versus automotive type bearings has to do with the difference in weight. The weight on an individual axle of a car may be #1000 or less as an average. My trailer has 3 times that. Granted, the trailer uses larger, higher capacity bearings but the grease is the same. Another point for annual maintenance is inspection and cleaning of the brake components. If I have to remove the hub to inspect the brakes, I might as well clean, inspect and repack the bearings. At least I know what's behind that drum and how much material I have left on the shoes.
On the other hand, if I didn't have shoe brakes and didn't have to be concerned about the workings behind the drum, I see no real reason to repack annually. I would still do the "feel" test when towing to check for hot hubs though. That would normally tell you a problem is coming.
On the other hand, if I didn't have shoe brakes and didn't have to be concerned about the workings behind the drum, I see no real reason to repack annually. I would still do the "feel" test when towing to check for hot hubs though. That would normally tell you a problem is coming.
I agree with Ray. I really like to check my brakes at least once/year, and it's easy to check the bearings at the same time. Checking the bearings will tell you if they have any heat or fatigue damage. I agree with Tejay on repacking by hand and not filling the hub cavity. "Sealed for life" bearing packs have very little volume of grease around the bearing.
An interesting fact on comparing bearings with automotive applications is that the 6000 lb axle NevR Lube bearing packs are the same as those used on some models of the Ford Taurus, quite a different vehicle weight. However, I would expect that the expected and actual maximum wheel rotation speeds to be higher for the Taurus, and rotational speed is a significant factor when choosing bearings.
An interesting fact on comparing bearings with automotive applications is that the 6000 lb axle NevR Lube bearing packs are the same as those used on some models of the Ford Taurus, quite a different vehicle weight. However, I would expect that the expected and actual maximum wheel rotation speeds to be higher for the Taurus, and rotational speed is a significant factor when choosing bearings.
porthole
Retired
Got to admit, in 25 years in that field I don't recall ever hearing this or seeing it on the ASE tests
Your points concerning the annual inspection of the brake components, drums and bearings are well taken and I agree. Peace of mind concerning those components goes a long ways when heading out on a trip. "Sticktuitveness" was simply another way of impressing/telling the kids that the lubrication, unlike oil did not flow, and it would stay where it was put so you had better put it where it would do the most good.
TeJay
TeJay
Any strange tire wear?
Story I heard so take for what its worth.......
Guys grandfather travelling down road towing fifth wheel trailer. Notices in mirror that trailer (new) is "dogwalking" behind truck. Not towing in straight line with truck. Takes into shop and no one can find anything. While cleaning box out, notices weld on hitch is broken. Takes to professional weld shop. Fixes weld and things run as normal.
Story I heard so take for what its worth.......
Guys grandfather travelling down road towing fifth wheel trailer. Notices in mirror that trailer (new) is "dogwalking" behind truck. Not towing in straight line with truck. Takes into shop and no one can find anything. While cleaning box out, notices weld on hitch is broken. Takes to professional weld shop. Fixes weld and things run as normal.
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