leaking water heater on 3055 rl

[patrick1945]

I don't know where to place this question other than here.

I am having a problem with a leaking hot water heater and that is forcing me to ask some questions about how I use it. The leak is coming from under the tank (or at least out of sight). The COLD and HOT water connections are tight with new washers and tight connections.

We have a Suburban propane and electric water heater which we have used almost exclusively in the electric mode. Even when we pull the trailer back and forth from New England we use mostly electricity. Now I am wondering if that was/is the right thing to do.

Since some of you FULL TIME I thought that you might have the best reading about when/why you use propane or electricity.

I use the RV about 4 months each year and the heater works great outside the leak.

A dealer is coming out next week but

 

[hoefler]

On thing you might check first, Make sure the fittings are not cracked or cross threaded. Also, you can over tighten the fittings causing a leak. You might try replacing the seals and possibly the fittings, hand tightening the fittings, usually 1/2 - 1 turn past finger tight. If they leak, only tighten until the leak stops. If you are sure the water connections are good, the next thing would be to get it out on a bench, Remove the foam clam shell, and put water to it.

 

[danemayer]

I know you said the leak is coming from underneath, but for what it's worth, I think there have been a few reports about plastic check valves (on the hot water outlet I think) cracking, causing leakage.

We're about half time and generally use electric. Even when paying for electricity, it beats getting the propane tank refilled.

 

[Rickhansen]

I am having a problem with a leaking hot water heater and that is forcing me to ask some questions about how I use it. The leak is coming from under the tank (or at least out of sight).

What makes you believe the water heater is leaking? Could be the caulk around the Water Heater outside mounting plate, something from the UDC, or any variety of other sources.

Using electric won't cause any problems. We use electric always, and supplement with propane when demand is high, washing clothes, dishes, and showering at the same time.

 

[JohnDar]

Considering how the two systems heat the water, it's unlikely that the electric is the culprit. The electric element is submerged in the tank, so the only leak point would be on the outer face where it's inserted. The propane is basically a big metal tube into the tank with a burner inside. Only the outer end is open. It could be possible for that to corrode and leak, but it would still be coming out the face of the water heater. Other than connections, the only other source would be a failure of the tank itself. Haven't heard of that happening, though.

FWIW, we use electric for the water heater all summer. About the only time I use propane on it is at the beginning of the season to make sure it still works.

 

[patrick1945]

Well the dealer service guy just left telling me the problem was a plastic back-flow preventer on the hot (outflow) of the water heater. There was a small crack on the bottom of the nipple/preventer and the water was running down inside the insulation. He said that he had never seen anything but brass on "this" level of Fifth Wheel and especially with so many other connections that close to the heater. All these connections placed downward stress on the plastic fitting. He went on to say that the brass cost about $2 more.. So Heartland saved $2 and I paid $102 for the replacement with brass. My compliments to Heartland. I hope I don't soon find another "sorry about that."

 

[JohnDar]

Your service guy obviously hasn't seen too many Heartlands. Seems all of them have a plastic check valve on the water heater hot line and several members have had them fail. I have a brass valve in my repair kit, just in case. But I might go ahead and replace the OEM valve when the weather warms up.

 

[patrick1945]

Your service guy obviously hasn't seen too many Heartlands. Seems all of them have a plastic check valve on the water heater hot line and several members have had them fail. I have a brass valve in my repair kit, just in case. But I might go ahead and replace the OEM valve when the weather warms up.

John, how should one feel when Heartland uses the plastic instead of brass to save $2.00? It makes me wonder where else they have done things "on the cheap" that will cost me much more the $2 + if it were done responsibly in the beginning. No I am not a plumber and you cannot see this item when the buying decision is made.

Does Heartland continue with plastic?

 

[Rickhansen]

I read too many posts of failures of the check valves on this forum to be comfortable. This is especially true when you consider that the valve is only there for winterizing. The two option were to install another check valve or install a manual ball valve. Mine was replaced preemptively with a Brass Swing-Check valve (about $4), as it was cheaper than a manual ball valve and a couple pipe nipples (about $12).

Good luck with the floor repair. Please post some pictures of what's under the basement subfloor. Knowledge is power.

 

[JohnDar]

John, how should one feel when Heartland uses the plastic instead of brass to save $2.00? It makes me wonder where else they have done things "on the cheap" that will cost me much more the $2 + if it were done responsibly in the beginning. No I am not a plumber and you cannot see this item when the buying decision is made.

Does Heartland continue with plastic?

Don't misinterpret my comment. But for a brief period I read in another thread, they've been using the plastic (nylon) valves for a long time. Seems they switched to brass for a short time (2010 - 2011 MY time frame) and then back to plastic because some bureaucrat got all worked up about putting lead in drinking water due to it possibly leaching from brass and making lab rats crazy. Considering that I don't drink water from the hot water tap, I don't worry too much about that possibility. I also was not aware of how prone to failure the valves were until reading about the failures on the forum. That's why I purchased the brass check valve last year, but I just haven't gotten around to putting it in.

But, to answer your question: P.O.'d

 

[jbeletti]

John is right on this. Plastic was finally upgraded to brass, only to be pushed back to plastic after RVIA rules forced the changed. My understanding was that California has a very stringent requirement for lead content in brass used for plumbing and this drove the RVIA ruling.

As Heartland builds only RVIA sealed product, we had no choice but to change.

To not build RVIA sealed product means to not see Heartland coaches at RV shows (all RVIA sanctioned) and a host of other downsides.

But yeah, in response to the OP - I'd be PO'd if mine broke. Question is, who to be PO'd at and to what end. The good news is the retail owners can change theirs out to brass if they so choose.

Jim

 

[patrick1945]

Jim, I guess you are saying that Heartland wasn't trying to do nothing more than save $2 per unit WHEN MY 3055 was made. I also guess that a reasonable and informed design staff should not have known that using plastic UNSUPPORTED might and likely would be a problem down the line.

As I understand it my unit was made long before California did its thing and certainly before Heartland decided to go to brass for some reason. Heartland was not using plastic for health reason when my unit was produced.

My part is now happily brass and the 5 other Bighorns in my community have been made aware of the potential problem and at a minimum are going to be adding support for the plastic that they have.

 

[jbeletti]

Patrick,

I am not part of the design, engineering and production process, but I'd characterize the move from plastic to brass check valves on the water heater to be a continuous improvement item, based on a history of user experiences with plastic.

Jim

 

[57chevyconvt]

Should this information end up in the modification section of the forum so that more of us would quickly pick-up on the potential need to change the HW heater tank outlet check valve from plastic to brass. BTW - I changed mine about a year ago, not because of leaks but my better judgment told me to do so. My thoughts.

 

[patrick1945]

In the spirit of CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT I will fix the switch like I did the floors in the slides. Then I will move on without drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[donr827]

On my current fifth wheel, not the 3055RL I have on order, I had a water leak at a pex fitting off the water heater. Luckily I caught it early with no damage. I purchased on line three water detectors that run off a AAA battery. I placed one at the water heater, one behind the toilet, and one under the bathroom sink where the back flow preventer is located. Gives some peace of mind about leaks. Will move them to the new trailer when I get it.
Don

 

[GOTTOYS]

I just replaced a leaking plastic fitting with a friend on his Landmark yesterday. In case you aren't sure which fitting it is..It's the top fitting that looks like a short section of pipe thats goes into the top of the water heater. You can gain access by going in behind the water heater. The replacement part we used on the recommendation of a competent RV service shop was just a brass 1/2" pipe to 1/2" tubing (they have different threads) nipple without the check valve. He had both parts available but said he never puts in the one with the check valve unless the customer insists. Cost of the fitting in brass was $6.00. Cost of Teflon tape $.85. Pretty cheap repair. The brass fitting without the check valve is also available at many auto parts stores. I'm going to see if mine is plastic and toss it if it is..Don

 

[Boca_Shuffles]

I just replaced a leaking plastic fitting with a friend on his Landmark yesterday. In case you aren't sure which fitting it is..It's the top fitting that looks like a short section of pipe thats goes into the top of the water heater. You can gain access by going in behind the water heater. The replacement part we used on the recommendation of a competent RV service shop was just a brass 1/2" pipe to 1/2" tubing (they have different threads) nipple without the check valve. He had both parts available but said he never puts in the one with the check valve unless the customer insists. Cost of the fitting in brass was $6.00. Cost of Teflon tape $.85. Pretty cheap repair. The brass fitting without the check valve is also available at many auto parts stores. I'm going to see if mine is plastic and toss it if it is..Don

I seem to recall that a faulty check valve results in cold water going into the top of the hot water when the water is shut off. A person normally experiences this when they are in the shower and temporarily turn the water off to soap up. When the water is turned on again, you get cold water out of the hot water outlet. You will notice this immediately.

If my memory is correct, your friend will experience this.

Also, if you see anti-freeze running out of your hot water heater when the anode is removed during winterization, you will know why the check valve is there.

 

[Rickhansen]

I'm confused. There is no lead in Brass. Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass) and is expressly allowed in drinking water systems, except when soldered with lead based solder.

 

[JohnDar]

I'm confused. There is no lead in Brass. Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass) and is expressly allowed in drinking water systems, except when soldered with lead based solder.

Read down a little further in that article:

Lead contentTo enhance the machinability of brass, lead is often added in concentrations of around 2%. Since lead has a lower melting point than the other constituents of the brass, it tends to migrate towards the grain boundaries in the form of globules as it cools from casting. The pattern the globules form on the surface of the brass increases the available lead surface area which in turn affects the degree of leaching. In addition, cutting operations can smear the lead globules over the surface. These effects can lead to significant lead leaching from brasses of comparatively low lead content.[SUP][7][/SUP]
Silicon is an alternative to lead; however, when silicon is used in a brass alloy, the scrap must never be mixed with leaded brass scrap because of contamination and safety problems.[SUP][8][/SUP]
In October 1999 the California State Attorney General sued 13 key manufacturers and distributors over lead content. In laboratory tests, state researchers found the average brass key, new or old, exceeded the California Proposition 65 limits by an average factor of 19, assuming handling twice a day.[SUP][9][/SUP] In April 2001 manufacturers agreed to reduce lead content to 1.5%, or face a requirement to warn consumers about lead content. Keys plated with other metals are not affected by the settlement, and may continue to use brass alloys with higher percentage of lead content.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]
Also in California, lead-free materials must be used for "each component that comes into contact with the wetted surface of pipes and pipe fittings, plumbing fittings and fixtures." On January 1, 2010, the maximum amount of lead in "lead-free brass" in California was reduced from 4% to 0.25% lead. The common practice of using pipes for electrical grounding is discouraged, as it accelerates lead corrosion.[SUP][[/SUP]