danemayer
Well-known member
Can't speak to how your trailer is wired, but when you talk about
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Levelup Voltage Issues
- Thread starter Roadpossum
- Start date
Can't speak to how your trailer is wired, but when you talk about
carl.swoyer
Well-known member
You sound irritated.?
Was not my intention .
I was simply trying to speak of the whole system. A trombetta solenoid a hydraulic pump a hydraulic Reservoir a few wires a breaker.
I have had conversations with trombetta, Lippert,and heartland.
The issues with the hydraulics stalling is a design oversight. Not a bad thing but sometimes a tsb would be great.
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danemayer
Well-known member
Ted,
I've attached a drawing of the switch wiring. Depending on which way the switch is pressed, the direction of the motor is reversed. The switch in this diagram controls the motor as well as the solenoid that opens and closes the valve that allows fluid to flow to and from the landing gear.
danemayer
Well-known member
Ok,
I think I've figured out where we're talking past one another.
Most of the solenoids used by the levelup system are low voltage, low current devices that open and close valves to allow hydraulic fluid to flow to the jacks or slide out rams.
The thing Lippert calls a Trombeta, which they also sometimes call a solenoid, or a set of two contactors, is like a relay. One or the other of the contactors is activated by low current from the switch or control panel. One contactor passes current to turn the motor in one direction. The other contactor passes current to turn the motor in the other direction.
The switch or control panel uses low current passed to one of the Trombetta contactors to control direction of the motor, based on which contactor gets energized.
Can the Trombeta be the weak link in the levelup system, causing the start/stop symptom. It's possible. But it seems to me to be unlikely. I think it's a sealed unit, so as long as the external connections are clean and tight, it seems low odds for the Trombeta to be the problem.
I recall someone a few months ago being advised by Lippert to replace the Trombeta to try and fix the start/stop symptom. If I'm remembering it correctly, it didn't fix the problem. He wasted his money.
I think I've figured out where we're talking past one another.
Most of the solenoids used by the levelup system are low voltage, low current devices that open and close valves to allow hydraulic fluid to flow to the jacks or slide out rams.
The thing Lippert calls a Trombeta, which they also sometimes call a solenoid, or a set of two contactors, is like a relay. One or the other of the contactors is activated by low current from the switch or control panel. One contactor passes current to turn the motor in one direction. The other contactor passes current to turn the motor in the other direction.
The switch or control panel uses low current passed to one of the Trombetta contactors to control direction of the motor, based on which contactor gets energized.
Can the Trombeta be the weak link in the levelup system, causing the start/stop symptom. It's possible. But it seems to me to be unlikely. I think it's a sealed unit, so as long as the external connections are clean and tight, it seems low odds for the Trombeta to be the problem.
I recall someone a few months ago being advised by Lippert to replace the Trombeta to try and fix the start/stop symptom. If I'm remembering it correctly, it didn't fix the problem. He wasted his money.
porthole
Retired
This looks like fun 
Relays - solenoids - contactors, all do the same thing with different applications or load carrying capabilities and usually have physically different characteristics.
Trombetta - as referred to in the Lippert wiring diagram, Trombetta is both a trade name and spelled wrong in that diagram.
The Trombetta in the diagram is a "reversing polarity DC contactor"
It simply reverses the polarity to the DC pump motor using the wall switch. By using the "Trombetta" wiring can be simplified. There are two contactors in the Trombetta. This allows simple reversing without complicated multiple relays or heavy duty high current carrying double pole double throw switches.
Solenoid valves - these are the small silver "cans" used on the manifold to control fluid flow, typically on or off - open or closed. And two identical looking solenoid valves could operate the opposite of each other, e.g. one is open to flow the other is closed to flow with no current applied.
The Trombetta on the pump panel is indeed a high current reversing polarity device (reversing solenoid) operated by additional low current switches. Nothing in the 12 volt DC system throughout our rigs is high voltage, all the systems are low voltage, some just carry a lot of current, some carry minimal current.
Another "good grief"
Did they explain exactly what that means?
The beauty of using relays, solenoids and contactors, high current operating devices can be operated with low current controls.
I thought the initial drive to the 80 amp breakers was 5-7 years ago to try and solve the hydraulic problem - 'way back when'.
Let's not forget that there is a real reason why an auto parts store replacement of the identical breaker used from the factory is $5 and some of the replacement breakers that are being used are $40 and above.
When our trailer was built we had hydraulic landing gear and two hydraulic slides - and - inadequate wiring. IIRC the wire gauge used for the pump was 10 gauge. Never had any issues until the LevelUp was installed. A larger pump assembly was installed (capacity) but none of the wiring was changed.
I had some low voltage cut out problems which were twofold. First the inadequate wiring and second the Lippert control panel was not "seeing" the proper voltage. I have had the same problem with my original inverter. The Lippert panel (and inverter panel) were seeing .6 volts lower then actual line voltage. As a result both systems would shut down prematurely due to a low voltage error. I'm guessing somewhere in the circuitry there are diodes that are causing the .6 volt drop (diodes have a .6 volt drop across the terminals as a matter of design).
I now have 2 gauge cables for all runs needed for the hydraulics and an 80 amp marine grade manual reset breaker
- - - Updated - - -
I'm guessing the colorful markups on this diagram are not Lippert's?
Item labeled valve is a 'solenoid valve'.
Makes a difference once you put wires on it.
View attachment Lippert Landing Gear Wiring notated.pdf
Relays - solenoids - contactors, all do the same thing with different applications or load carrying capabilities and usually have physically different characteristics.
Trombetta - as referred to in the Lippert wiring diagram, Trombetta is both a trade name and spelled wrong in that diagram.
The Trombetta in the diagram is a "reversing polarity DC contactor"
It simply reverses the polarity to the DC pump motor using the wall switch. By using the "Trombetta" wiring can be simplified. There are two contactors in the Trombetta. This allows simple reversing without complicated multiple relays or heavy duty high current carrying double pole double throw switches.
Solenoid valves - these are the small silver "cans" used on the manifold to control fluid flow, typically on or off - open or closed. And two identical looking solenoid valves could operate the opposite of each other, e.g. one is open to flow the other is closed to flow with no current applied.
The Trombetta on the pump panel is indeed a high current reversing polarity device (reversing solenoid) operated by additional low current switches. Nothing in the 12 volt DC system throughout our rigs is high voltage, all the systems are low voltage, some just carry a lot of current, some carry minimal current.
Another "good grief"
Did they explain exactly what that means?
The beauty of using relays, solenoids and contactors, high current operating devices can be operated with low current controls.
I thought the initial drive to the 80 amp breakers was 5-7 years ago to try and solve the hydraulic problem - 'way back when'.
Let's not forget that there is a real reason why an auto parts store replacement of the identical breaker used from the factory is $5 and some of the replacement breakers that are being used are $40 and above.
When our trailer was built we had hydraulic landing gear and two hydraulic slides - and - inadequate wiring. IIRC the wire gauge used for the pump was 10 gauge. Never had any issues until the LevelUp was installed. A larger pump assembly was installed (capacity) but none of the wiring was changed.
I had some low voltage cut out problems which were twofold. First the inadequate wiring and second the Lippert control panel was not "seeing" the proper voltage. I have had the same problem with my original inverter. The Lippert panel (and inverter panel) were seeing .6 volts lower then actual line voltage. As a result both systems would shut down prematurely due to a low voltage error. I'm guessing somewhere in the circuitry there are diodes that are causing the .6 volt drop (diodes have a .6 volt drop across the terminals as a matter of design).
I now have 2 gauge cables for all runs needed for the hydraulics and an 80 amp marine grade manual reset breaker
- - - Updated - - -
I'm guessing the colorful markups on this diagram are not Lippert's?
Item labeled valve is a 'solenoid valve'.
Makes a difference once you put wires on it.
View attachment Lippert Landing Gear Wiring notated.pdf
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danemayer
Well-known member
Duane, I think you've pretty much nailed it.
With respect to the drive to 80 amp breakers being 5-7 years ago, that's what Lippert was saying in a LIP Sheet that was withdrawn. As of this morning, for levelup on towables (not motorized coaches) they say "50-100 Amp as required". See the attachment. With respect to my statement about the KIB system being the driver, that's my understanding about Heartland's decision to start using an 80 amp breaker.
For anyone who wants to upgrade their breaker to the hydraulics, I'd suggest they do what you did - upgrade the wire at the same time.
With respect to the drive to 80 amp breakers being 5-7 years ago, that's what Lippert was saying in a LIP Sheet that was withdrawn. As of this morning, for levelup on towables (not motorized coaches) they say "50-100 Amp as required". See the attachment. With respect to my statement about the KIB system being the driver, that's my understanding about Heartland's decision to start using an 80 amp breaker.
For anyone who wants to upgrade their breaker to the hydraulics, I'd suggest they do what you did - upgrade the wire at the same time.
carl.swoyer
Well-known member
I had Lazydays RV here in Florida suggest changing the trombetta.
That would be about 80.00 bucks plus labor if I had them do it.
I changed the 50 amp breaker without replacing the trombetta.
I also tighten up all connections.
My new 50 amp breaker seems to be working fine.
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