Low Install/assembly quality industry wide, leads to “creeper time”

[jr814]

RV industry, hopefully will one day step up, and do a more honorable job of assembly of their campers, and trailers. With record sales volume, it seems most places don’t see the need, available time or skilled workers. I’m a retired commercial carpenter, and have seen the slippery slope of decline of quality work. It appears the 3 assembly tools are a utility knife, hammer, and hatchet. I’m not talking about most interior or exterior appearance issues. Most companies do a decent job there. Just finished about a weeks worth of rework on my new camper, rolling around underneath on a creeper. Electrical wires pinched against steel framing, holes chopped in “sealed heated underbelly”, for quick install, sloppy opening sealing attempts. The underside, is where most don’t look. Some of these big holes gave me a clear view of wiring run through the metal framing, with no protection with plastic conduit or loom, from rubbing against sharp steel. About time warranty up, insulation cut through and shorts/ electrical issues follow. I fixed what I could reach, but wasn’t going to pull belly down, and redo it all. No way any heat could remain in “heated” underbelly, when unsealed holes everywhere, and tanks visible from below. Reworked my 16’ enclosed utility trailer 2 years ago, the day I bought it. Same thing, wires pulled through sharp steel, no grommets, protection. This is why trailer wiring is always a problem. Hopefully my repairs were done at home, and not on the shoulder of the road, when I should be enjoying the camping life.
These problems won’t change, until we demand change, and expose the lack of care on assembly. I realize RV and trailers have a short life, and considered disposable to some. Too many problems, sell, or trade, for a new set of problems. We just reset the timer, until it all starts again. Next time, my body, will say you can’t do this boy, and my mind says, oh yes you can. Guess I need to sell the creeper, or stop going through this.

 

[rhodies1]

RV industry, hopefully will one day step up, and do a more honorable job of assembly of their campers, and trailers. With record sales volume, it seems most places don’t see the need, available time or skilled workers. I’m a retired commercial carpenter, and have seen the slippery slope of decline of quality work. It appears the 3 assembly tools are a utility knife, hammer, and hatchet. I’m not talking about most interior or exterior appearance issues. Most companies do a decent job there. Just finished about a weeks worth of rework on my new camper, rolling around underneath on a creeper. Electrical wires pinched against steel framing, holes chopped in “sealed heated underbelly”, for quick install, sloppy opening sealing attempts. The underside, is where most don’t look. Some of these big holes gave me a clear view of wiring run through the metal framing, with no protection with plastic conduit or loom, from rubbing against sharp steel. About time warranty up, insulation cut through and shorts/ electrical issues follow. I fixed what I could reach, but wasn’t going to pull belly down, and redo it all. No way any heat could remain in “heated” underbelly, when unsealed holes everywhere, and tanks visible from below. Reworked my 16’ enclosed utility trailer 2 years ago, the day I bought it. Same thing, wires pulled through sharp steel, no grommets, protection. This is why trailer wiring is always a problem. Hopefully my repairs were done at home, and not on the shoulder of the road, when I should be enjoying the camping life.
These problems won’t change, until we demand change, and expose the lack of care on assembly. I realize RV and trailers have a short life, and considered disposable to some. Too many problems, sell, or trade, for a new set of problems. We just reset the timer, until it all starts again. Next time, my body, will say you can’t do this boy, and my mind says, oh yes you can. Guess I need to sell the creeper, or stop going through this.

As as we all know. The industry is owned by the big 3. Thor,,Forest River and Winnebago,,, so why change anything. They know they have the market and don’t care. it’s just as simple as that,,,a lot will say quality comes at a cost. Not really,,, nothing will change as long as everyone turns a blind eye and accepts what comes out of the factories.

 

[danemayer]

This is a recurring discussion that has come up year after year. There's a frequent assertion that quality is free because of savings on the warranty side. Over the years, a number of RV companies have gone bankrupt while attempting to prove that assertion. Of course there could have been other reasons contributing to their going bankrupt, but nevertheless, they did go out of business. And yes, there are other industries where it has been demonstrated. But many of those industries have much higher pricing to cover their higher costs and it might be difficult to demonstrate that the quality initiatives were repaid in savings. And btw, having come from a corporate environment, I have seen up close the outrageous claims that corporate executives make about the value of their initiatives. I recall one claim that by moving to a project-management oriented culture, the company was saving $XXX where that amount exceeded the net profit of the company - saying something about the essential profitability of the products, or about the truth of the claim.

RV companies have several basic cost elements that must be covered in their wholesale price. 1) cost of components, 2) cost of labor, 3) cost of warranty, 4) manufacturing overhead, 5) Sales & General Administration, 6) taxes, and 7) net profit. What's generally overlooked by outsiders is the manufacturing overhead. The cost of the facility is enormous and is amortized over a period of years, with an annual cost allocated to each unit built that year. If the line is run at less than maximum capacity, unit cost goes up. That means wholesale price goes up. That means the product is less competitive to dealers than product from a manufacturer running at maximum.

So spending a little more time on labor, or a few dollars more on better components, is not the entire cost picture. Slowing down the line reduces production output and adds significant cost. When the dealer adds their markup to the wholesale price, if the result is a few thousand $ higher than brand X, will they try to justify the higher price by talking about quality? Will they disparage brand X by doing so? They'll go for the easy sale.

Heartland, a few years ago, built a PDI facility at enormous capital investment cost (again amortized across units built) and very high operating cost. The hope was to get a payback in reduced warranty cost such that the PDI facility would pay for itself and not add to product cost and wholesale price. After 3 or 4 years, I'd say the verdict would be in. In September 2019, Heartland announced that 100% of Elkhart produced units were going through the PDI facility. That might be an indication of success. But I haven't heard about a PDI facility in Idaho. So would that suggest that while quality has improved, the cost savings might not justify another PDI facility? Maybe. Could be other reasons to consider, like cashflow, available land, etc. We don't know whether the improved quality has repaid the costs.

The RV industry is considerably different from many other industries that can cite quality improvements. These units are built by hand on a very fast moving line. I've roamed the manufacturing floor unescorted several times while work was underway. I can tell you that I needed to pay close attention to what was happening all around me. People, equipment, parts, and trailers move fast.

Can manufacturers do better? Sure. And they should do better. Cable and wire bundling and grommets don't seem like unreasonable thoughts to me. Cleaning up before closing up the basement seems like it should be possible. And there are other things.

Will consumer behavior change? First time buyers respond to bling and don't have the knowledge and experience to look deeper. And the majority of owners probably never look at those closed up areas. I know there is one unnamed competitor that has been making some changes to alleviate some of these concerns, and at the moment they look like they have a sustainable business model. But their initial market was to experienced RVers who respond to those things. As they grow, will those things appeal as much as bling does to the novice RVer. If yes, then other manufacturers may follow.

Complicating all of this is the extremely high demand for RVs (I believe breaking all records this year), combined with parts and component shortages due to the pandemic. I'm sure most manufacturers at this moment are focused on responding to the record-breaking demand. And buyers are focused on getting out on the road.

 

[david-steph2018]

I thought I had seen this article around the 1st of April:
General RV Touts PDI Facility - RV News

A dealer has built a PDI facility to check the units they get from the manufacturers. Will this make a difference in the outcome, maybe. But one difference it may influence some new buyers to come to them, since they are "inspecting" the unit before it leaves the Elkhart area manufacturers.