Need help - leak behind universal docking center

[wyleyrabbit]

Hi,

I woke up this morning to find our basement floor covered in water and everything we had stored there soaked. We have a leak behind our universal docking center, and we are nowhere near any RV dealer.

I took the wall off and one of the cheap plastic (why Heartland, WHY??? I would have gladly paid $10 to $20 more for the trailer to have brass fittings.) hose fittings that goes into the hot water tank bypass valve is dripping profusely and appears to have cracked. My guess is that when we used the outdoor shower yesterday to hose off the puppy that the shower hose was looped around one of the loops for one of the other hoses; when we pulled the shower hose out it must have put stress on this cheap/brittle plastic part. I'll leave out my comments on this horrible design for now.

We are booked here (and paid up) for another 5 days and don't want to have to lose the last of our summer vacation because of this leak. If I don't get this fixed then we'll have NO WATER for the rest of the trip. Oh, and the rest of the week is going to rain, so we'll be playing a lot of games and watching movies. We are currently in Squamish, BC and have within driving distance a Home Depot, a Canadian Tire, and an automotive/plumbing supply store. I will happily go and purchase new fittings and thread tape, and I guess I have no choice.

I see that the hoses are all flexible 1/2" diameter. So what diameter fittings (I mean the part that fits into the hose) do I get? 3/8ths"? 1/2"? Something else?

Please answer ASAP as I have to get this solved right away.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[JohnDar]

If you can, remove the broken parts and take them with you to Home Depot. It will make it easier for them to assist you.

 

[2010augusta]

The fitting are all MOSTLY 1/2 inch NPT. Before you go to the store, try to remove the broken piece, They can be hard to remove, so you might need a tool or two from the hardware store too. Any valve will work there, but a check valve is nice, and a adapter/ fitting will get you through the week. The valve is only needed to winterize. Good luck on a quick and easy fix.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

The fitting that goes into the flexible hose...is it 3/8" in diameter? It seems to me that if I used a 1/2" male fitting into the hose, that it would stretch the hose and make putting the 1/2" crimp difficult/impossible.

 

[2010augusta]

The fitting that goes into the flexible hose...is it 3/8" in diameter? It seems to me that if I used a 1/2" male fitting into the hose, that it would stretch the hose and make putting the 1/2" crimp difficult/impossible.

By flexible, do you mean rubber/poly hose or PEX plastic pipe?

 

[2010augusta]

I checked ours just now and ALL the rubber/poly hose is 1/2 inch and ALL the PEX is 1/2 inch for the pipe and hoses. the threaded fittings should be 1/2 NPT.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

Thanks for your help.

I went to Home Depot and picked up a PEX crimp tool and a bunch of 1/2" crimp rings (or whatever they'd be called). Then, went to the auto parts store and picked up a screw in brass 3/8" barb, and attached the white rubber/poly 1/2" hose to the barb and crimped it on. So far, so good. Still not perfect...no more than a drip every 20-30 minutes, but far better than the (now) cracked cheapo plastic that Heartland shipped with.

Now the question is, why the 1/2" rubber/poly hose at all? Why not 1/2" PEX everywhere? Perhaps this would be a good project to change over to PEX? Would there be a benefit?

Seems to me, all a guy would need is the PEX crimp tool (which I now have), a bunch of crimp rings (they're cheap), some "T" connectors, and some 90 degree elbow connectors. Would this upgrade be more reliable and less likely to fail?

Chris

 

[2010augusta]

Chris, I have had the same thought MANY times, and the only issue I find is at the water pump and a few other connections that have barbed fittings molded in that could not easily be adapted to the PEX system.

If you do change over be sure to post the details for the rest of us.

 

[jbeletti]

Chris,

I am no expert in this and have never done it. But will offer a few comments.

I "think" the water heater bypass comes to us as a kit. That kit may include the vinyl hose and back flow valve. So this may be the reason so much of it exists at that point.

Be sure to leave the vinyl hose going into and leaving the water pump. This helps to reduce pump vibration into the plumbing.

Best of luck. Take pictures (before and after).

Jim

 

[SouthernNights]

I think Jim may have hit the reason why the factory does not use PEX. PEX is rather stiff and would require more labor to install fittings for corners etc plus it does not do well with constant vibration. To install it correctly in a building it requires support provided by runing it through studs or special clamps that hold it.

All these things are possible to do in the trailer but with production line speeds maybe it is not feasible. So much quicker to just run the vinyl hoses and bend them tighter rather install PEX with a fitting everytime you need to make a tight corner.

If someone from engineering reads this, maybe they will comment on the reason.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

Hmmm. Most everything in the trailer is PEX though. It's only the spaghetti behind the universal docking station that uses the poly/rubber hoses. Aside from to/from the water pump, I'm still thinking PEX might be a worthy upgrade.

That said I am NOT a plumber, so if anyone knows a reason why this would be a bad idea, please let me know.

Cheers,
Chris

As I write this, it's pouring outside. I really don't miss camping in a tent. Really.

 

[porthole]

As Jim mentioned, the poly/vinyl hose at the pump inlet-outlet is for vibration isolation. In a boat or RV you would not want to remove this "flex" connection.

 

[jbeletti]

...If someone from engineering reads this, maybe they will comment on the reason.

Engineering does not read the forum Larry. But I have passed this on to production in the hopes to get the real answer as to why so much vinyl and less PEX. I say vinyl - I am not actually sure what that non-PEX hose is.

Jim

 

[Bobby A]

I never EVER use my outside shower, can I just cap the hot & cold lines going into the outside shower and forget it ???

 

[2010augusta]

I never EVER use my outside shower, can I just cap the hot & cold lines going into the outside shower and forget it ???

cap them off at a T closeest to the main line, or water could be trapped in the line after winterizing and cause headaches in the spring.

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Water Leaks!!!!!!

When we had the 2009 Landmark Augusta, during the PDI we had no leaks. Upon arriving home about 175 miles at several leaks behind the Docking station. And of course I didn't have a Pex tool or the clamps. Nearest Lowe's 45 minutes away. After getting the Pex tool I replaced all the clamps behind docking station. I for sure feel your pain, it is very frustrating to spend that much money and then have a water in the basement. I'm sure there is a better way. We had our 5er checked with Air pressure during the PDI, before taking on water, its a lot easier to clean up air than water. Then put water in the system and pressure it up to 100 psi, no leaks so for. Good Luck. If you own a 5th wheel that uses Pex clamps you should purchase a Pex tool. GBY.....

 

[SouthernNights]

Hmmm. Most everything in the trailer is PEX though. It's only the spaghetti behind the universal docking station that uses the poly/rubber hoses. Aside from to/from the water pump, I'm still thinking PEX might be a worthy upgrade.



As I write this, it's pouring outside. I really don't miss camping in a tent. Really.

Uhm-now that you said that, there is PEX going to the washing machine outlet and the anti syphon valve. I guess it was the overwhelming amount of white vinyl flexible hose like stuff that sticks in mind.

Thank you for correcting me.

BTW, at least it is just raining OUTSIDE the trailer.

 

[jbeletti]

I heard back from Production today. Good news. In our ongoing effort to clean up the wiring/plumbing in the hidden areas, we have shortened up a lot of that flex hose and we are looking into ways to eliminate more of it.

Jim

 

[Bobby A]

cap them off at a T closeest to the main line, or water could be trapped in the line after winterizing and cause headaches in the spring.

Thanks 2010augusta, I will do that right after I get to my latest problem see my thread in Big Horn plumbing.

 

[Lorraine]

We have a 2009 Bighorn 3400RL and experienced a similar leaking condition with the plastic fitting on the hot water by pass valve. We attributed our leak to high water pressure in the campground. Normally we use a pressure reduction valve, but find it too restrictive so it wasn't utilized on this occassion.
Went to Home Depot and the person in the plumbing department commented that the plastic fitting was of the sprinkler/irrigation system variety. They couldn't supply the necessary parts in brass and directed me to a plumbing supply facility(Andrew Sherett) Went to Andrew Sherett with the by pass valve in hand along with the failed plastic fitting and a piece of the hose. They supplied brass elbow fittings and a threaded brass fitting off the elbow(two fittings per connection for a total of six fittings per valve)to accomodate the hose connections as that was the only way they could do it. Given the likely possibility that the anti freeze winterization by pass valve would also fail, I purchased enough fittings to re fit both valves.Got rid of the pex type hose clamps and installed good quality gear clamps to secure the hose to the fittings.
Although these brass fittings are expensive, the quality of the fittings are vastly improved and everything works well now that it is back together.
A word of caution when swapping out the plastic fittings for the brass ones; be careful when removing the plastic fittings. They are easy to snap off were the plastic meets the brass and removing the part left in the valve can be challenging. As well, when switching over to the brass fittings I found it necessary to cut the hose back of the crimped fittings resulting in a shorter length of tubing. The only place I could find similar tubing was at a plumbing supply shop that sells hot tubs.
Hope this helps to remedy your leak in the long term. We also experienced a weekend of no water as there were no available parts nearby.