New Axle needed - urgently

[porthole]

Semi trailers use to have oil bath bearings. When they set for months at a time the top of the bearing dries out and rust. With grease the bearing tends not to rust when parked.

You have seen this or heard about it?

Bob:
Again, I say that although an oil-type hub with the oil cup and cap is used for the disk brake upgrade kit, MorRyde chooses to pack the bearings with GREASE. I learned this when consulting with an independent trailer manufacturer/repairer with 30 years experience here in Sacramento. I didn't know at the time I had oil-type hubs. I pointedly asked him which is better for me - oil in the bearings/hubs or grease? He said that he has seen too many oil hubs leak unknown to the driver, and the bearings seize up due to lack of oil. He said it was perfectly fine to pack the bearings with grease in an oil-type hub.

So far I have been back from Indiana to Northern California, down to Phoenix and back on those hubs greased that way. I think I talked to MorRyde when I first discovered this, and they re-assured me that grease was fine in an oil-type hub. I would think that most of the people out there with the disk brake upgrade by MorRyde are riding on greased bearings in oil-type hubs.

I would wonder if the original poster had oil in the hub, and the oil leaked out, seizing the bearings, as my local trailer repairer talked about.

MOR/ryde offers two types of disc brake upgrades. One is the "sealed" never lube bearing type hub which is a different brand and type of disc brake upgrade.
'The other (and better IMHO) is the Kodiak branded DB kit which comes with standard GM pads and an oil bath type hub. The hubs, as mentioned above have clear plastic center caps with a rubber plug to add oil.

Oil or grease, either is fine. MOR/ryde does an excellent job of greasing the bearings. When i had my brakes apart last summer (5 years and about 20K miles) my bearings looked as good as they day they were installed grease wise.

Bill, I understand what you are saying. I was asking what Mor/Ryde was using for dust covers. It would not be a good idea to use grease and oil together. I have never checked into it but I wonder if the bearings are different for oil bath and greased bearings.

Bearings are the same.

FYI, anyone with the oil bath hubs and the clear plastic center cover would be wise to have a spare cap or two. Putting a 95 pound tire and wheel on last year I got a bit rammy and broke a cap. I already had spares though.

 

[kkamshop]

The company I work for has over 10,000 trailers and we had bearing problems on trailers after some would set during a slow season. All of our trailers are grease filled bearings now. Minimal bearing problems.

 

[JonV]

To find a timely solution the first step became clear and that was to deal directly with the insurance company. Being Canadian and working with a Canadian insurance company they are left with contract insurance adjusters who they may or may not be familiar with. Our adjuster was becoming a noticeable impediment and Eileen began working directly with our broker. The repairs were completed today and we'll be on our way in the morning.

A few notes: It seems not all axles of a specific weight rating are the same. The flanges, spindles, etc. can vary and that, it seems is why they require the specific serial number from the axle. We did not deal with Dexter directly but with Red Neck Trailer Supplies who we found on the Dexter web site. Since it was going to take "a couple of weeks or so" to get an axle they put us in contact with Tiger Axle in Shreveport and supplied Tiger Axle with all the specs based on our serial number. Tiger Axle provided an axle with a 24 hour turnaround and for less than $200.00. We just had to drive to Shreveport, LA to pick it up. The reason the axle had to be replaced was the damage to the spindle.

The only local (30 miles away) dealer that offered onsite service (I didn't want to drive that far on just 3 wheels) couldn't help us for at least 2 weeks and the insurance adjuster could offer us no alternatives. Eileen started making phone calls and got a wrong number... Actually it turned out to be a RIGHT number. The gentleman on the other end of the phone call ask if he could help. She explained to him our predicament and he gave her a few suggestions on who to contact. A few more calls and she was talking to Action Towing, a local towing company. They asked if we had everything needed to make the repair but we were still waiting on brake parts that I'd just finished ordering. Kodiak Trailer Components were sending the disc brake caliper and mounting bracket via overnight courier so as soon as the package arrived she called them and the repair truck was sitting beside our rig within 30 minutes.

It took a lot of running around on our part but the repairs were completed today just as the sun was setting. We're leaving in the morning as soon as the tire pressures are checked, the lug nuts torqued and the oil levels in the wheel bearings are topped off.

Once again we're happy campers and heading off to the Great White North.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

 

[JonV]

Good news, hopefully it will all come together soon. You can be back across the border in another 3 days then. Perhaps when you have time, you can let us know how the axle got damaged.

It's looking like the axle nut may have been overtightened when the disc brakes were installed but the ins. adjuster thinks it may have been a problem with the caliper.

 

[VidlerRVTravels]

We've had a very busy week regarding our dilemma here in Texas. I am so sorry that I haven't kept up with this thread and answered questions.... I didn't KNOW alot of the technical 'stuff' you fellows are talking about. After a couple of days dealing with a very difficult insurance adjuster (and me feeling very helpless), I sprung into action and got things moving. It's a VERY long story (I'll likely write a magazine article about it). (I write for RV gazette in Canada) and I post on our blog.

What I can say, however, is:

1. If you are going to breakdown in Texas... Marshall is the place to be. The people here are wonderful. We've met such great people because of this.

2. You don't always have to get repairs done at an RV dealership (as in this case). The insurance adjuster ONLY wanted to send us to a specific RV dealership and the earliest they would look at it was going to be May 6th. This wasn't acceptable as we need to get back into Canada.

3. Our insurance broker in Canada (Wayfarer Insurance) was simply AWESOME. The gals there were great and I can highly recommend that company.

4. Doing some research can be a good thing. Sometimes, however, you get wrong numbers (on the internet). But, my wrong number turned out to be a very RIGHT number!

5. If you in need of an axle custom built, contact Tiger Axle in Shreveport at 318-688-2953. Jimmy will bend over backwards to help you. He, along with Greg at Redneck Trailers were instrumental in getting us the axle we needed. Both these men bent over backwards to help us. Our axle was $195 (taxes in). When we called Dexter directly to get an axle, they told us to go through a distributor. When we asked who to contact, they told us to 'find it on the internet'. Dexter was NOT at all helpful.

Kudos to the following people:

- Greg at Redneck Trailer, Phone: 903-885-9656
- Jimmy at Tiger Axle, 6711 W. 70th Street, Shreveport, LA. Phone: 318-688-2953
- Jesse at Kodiak Trailer, 9600 Sand Street, Fort Worth, TX. Phone: 817-897-0638
- Josh at Action Towing, 8628 Hwy 59S, Marshall, TX Phone: 903-938-4100
- Debbie and Shelley at Wayfarer Insurance, Canada
- Jack (the good Samaritan from Marshall who stopped on Hwy 59 when we broke down). He even stopped by the park the next day to check in on us.

Last but not least... the members of this forum and specifically this thread. Your help/suggestions did not go unnoticed.

So... happy to say that we will be on the road tomorrow (Friday, Apr 25th) heading to Canada.

BTW, we got the RIG fixed quicker than Jon's RIBS could heal. (unrelated accident which happened Saturday after we broke down).

Thanks AGAIN!

 

[JonV]

So does that mean they are not going to cover it?

It's being covered.

 

[jbeletti]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Jon and Eileen - happy to hear you are in better shape now than when I heard from you several days ago.

Were the Dexter axles original to your Big Country?

And the Kodiak disk brakes - those were installed by you or a 3rd party sometime after your Big Country purchase - is that right?

Travel home safely and see you down the road.

 

[JonV]

You have seen this or heard about it?

Bearings are the same.

FYI, anyone with the oil bath hubs and the clear plastic center cover would be wise to have a spare cap or two. Putting a 95 pound tire and wheel on last year I got a bit rammy and broke a cap. I already had spares though.

Good point, I'll get in contact with Kodiac and order a couple.
Thanx

 

[JonV]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Jon and Eileen - happy to hear you are in better shape now than when I heard from you several days ago.

Were the Dexter axles original to your Big Country?

And the Kodiak disk brakes - those were installed by you or a 3rd party sometime after your Big Country purchase - is that right?

Travel home safely and see you down the road.

Hi Jim,
Yes the Dexter axles were original.

We had the disc brakes installed this past winter because the OEM drum brakes didn't work much better than dragging your feet. On having them serviced on one occasion the RV tech tried to adjust them and found the brakes on the curb side couldn't be adjusted. After removing the wheel and drum the adjuster and springs fell on the ground... with both wheels. In retrospect I should have let Heartland know about this. I know they receive the brakes preassembled and it seems their supplier has a QC problem or we just got a special set of brakes but that's unlikely.

I still wasn't happy with the brakes so we took it to a large dealership chain in Florida who said they found nothing wrong but they adjusted and greased the brakes. No difference. We were just $300 lighter. When the brakes were pulled apart to install the Kodiak disc brakes there must have been a whole tube of grease inside each drum.

 

[happykraut]

Jon, Eileen I've been following your story and am so happy for you that you're on the road again. Maybe I'll get to meet you at the Niagara rally. Travel safe.

 

[JonV]

Jon, Eileen I've been following your story and am so happy for you that you're on the road again. Maybe I'll get to meet you at the Niagara rally. Travel safe.

Thanks much. We'll definitely meet in Niagara, I look forward to it.
Safe travels.

 

[wdk450]

Eileen:
Thanks for taking the time to give credits on this forum to those vendors who helped you out.

When you are back home and settled in, you might consider letting the rest of the RV world know about the great service (and some poor service) you got by making postings on RVServiceReviews.com about the vendors you dealt with. Websites like that and RVParkReviews.com only work well when RVers keep posting their recent experiences.

With some of the expert trucking industry comments about the oil-filled bearings here, you may want to re-think using these with oil, instead of greased bearings.

We've had a very busy week regarding our dilemma here in Texas. I am so sorry that I haven't kept up with this thread and answered questions.... I didn't KNOW alot of the technical 'stuff' you fellows are talking about. After a couple of days dealing with a very difficult insurance adjuster (and me feeling very helpless), I sprung into action and got things moving. It's a VERY long story (I'll likely write a magazine article about it). (I write for RV gazette in Canada) and I post on our blog.

What I can say, however, is:

1. If you are going to breakdown in Texas... Marshall is the place to be. The people here are wonderful. We've met such great people because of this.

2. You don't always have to get repairs done at an RV dealership (as in this case). The insurance adjuster ONLY wanted to send us to a specific RV dealership and the earliest they would look at it was going to be May 6th. This wasn't acceptable as we need to get back into Canada.

3. Our insurance broker in Canada (Wayfarer Insurance) was simply AWESOME. The gals there were great and I can highly recommend that company.

4. Doing some research can be a good thing. Sometimes, however, you get wrong numbers (on the internet). But, my wrong number turned out to be a very RIGHT number!

5. If you in need of an axle custom built, contact Tiger Axle in Shreveport at 318-688-2953. Jimmy will bend over backwards to help you. He, along with Greg at Redneck Trailers were instrumental in getting us the axle we needed. Both these men bent over backwards to help us. Our axle was $195 (taxes in). When we called Dexter directly to get an axle, they told us to go through a distributor. When we asked who to contact, they told us to 'find it on the internet'. Dexter was NOT at all helpful.

Kudos to the following people:

- Greg at Redneck Trailer, Phone: 903-885-9656
- Jimmy at Tiger Axle, 6711 W. 70th Street, Shreveport, LA. Phone: 318-688-2953
- Jesse at Kodiak Trailer, 9600 Sand Street, Fort Worth, TX. Phone: 817-897-0638
- Josh at Action Towing, 8628 Hwy 59S, Marshall, TX Phone: 903-938-4100
- Debbie and Shelley at Wayfarer Insurance, Canada
- Jack (the good Samaritan from Marshall who stopped on Hwy 59 when we broke down). He even stopped by the park the next day to check in on us.

Last but not least... the members of this forum and specifically this thread. Your help/suggestions did not go unnoticed.

So... happy to say that we will be on the road tomorrow (Friday, Apr 25th) heading to Canada.

BTW, we got the RIG fixed quicker than Jon's RIBS could heal. (unrelated accident which happened Saturday after we broke down).

Thanks AGAIN!

 

[porthole]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Answers:

The threads on the spindle are stripped.
The spindle was bent on impact and the repair place won't repair it (because of liability, etc)

The insurance adjuster says there was a problem with the brake caliper that caused the rotor to overheat and destroy the oil seal and lose all of the oil. With the oil gone the bearings wouldn't last too long.

It's looking like the axle nut may have been overtightened when the disc brakes were installed but the ins. adjuster thinks it may have been a problem with the caliper.

None of this makes sense, from an automotive side (my comments are based on my experience, which is fairly extensive).

Since you didn't describe what actually took place, it sounds like a wheel came off and your axle dropped, hit something and bent the spindle.

"if" the caliper caused the rotor to overheat - and the parts were not replaced, you now have a bad caliper, rotor, bearings and seals.
Do you have new a new caliper and rotor?

Most of the trailer hydraulic brakes activate all 4 (or 6) calipers at the same time, so a caliper issue would - should have been felt as drag. If it was a pump issue, all four would be activated, not just one.

Many RV's use a non contact infra red thermometer to check hubs and bearings whenever they stop. You might want to consider something like this.

http://www.sears.com/general-tools-...PM7057935407?sLevel=0&redirectType=SKIP_LEVEL

How many miles approximately on your disc brake install?

Your mention of the spindle being stripped is interesting.

Scenario 1) caliper causes rotor to overheat, bearings to fail, hub falls off spindle. With no other damaged parts (caliper and rotor) - unlikely

Scenario 2) Wheel bearings too tight, overheats and fails. They have to be fairy tight for some time. Unless they were still tightened to the "cup seating" torque.

Scenario 3) Plastic cap O-ring leaks or develops cracks and leaks, losing all the oil and bearings fail. When I broke my dust cap It "looked" ok. The crack was between the threaded portion and the cap.

I would think an oil loss would show with an oil film on the wheels and the accumulating dirt.

And - if your caliper and rotor are still serviceable, and my guess:

Scenario 4) The "tech" forgot to install the cotter pin in the spindle. The nut backed off and the outer bearing fell out.


BTW, besides checking the temps when you stop for fuel etc, you can also grab the top of the tire and try and rock it in and out. Loose wheel bearings will be felt this way. But, some play is normal, so you need to know what is normal for your rig.


Did you take pictures?

Did you have the other axle checked?

 

[porthole]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

If you had the time and your travels allow it on the way home, you could make a stop at MOR/ryde in Elkhart and have your disc brakes inspected, explaining your issue. They are experts in RV suspension and brakes, specialize in disc brake conversions, do excellent work and have very fair pricing.

Make a 7 am appointment, park in their lot (water and electric) the night before, be up by 6, because the will be ready for you by 6:30. Enjoy coffee and snacks in the showroom and be on your way in a few hours.

 

[JonV]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Porthole...
A couple of comments in response. It's likely Eileen might have misunderstood comments so... To answer a few of your points. It was the insurance guy's opinion that the caliper might have caused the problem. And yes, the caliper has been replaced because it was damaged.

We brought it home with us and will give it to in the insurance company (if they want it). It looks like 2 small pieces of the rotor were not found but we also have most of it for the insurance company as well.

There was no evidence that any part of the axle or suspension hit anything. The spindle wasn't bent it was heavily scored and had obviously, by the looks of it, been VERY hot.

There where no cotter pins as the OEM axles were not drilled for them. The replacement axle IS drilled and cotter pins are used with castellated nuts. The OEM axles have a flat on them with a steel disc shaped to fit the axle and a tab is bent to secure the nut. Definitely not as secure as the cotter pin route.

Threads were missing from part of the spindle presumably removed when the rotor/hub spun on it when it came off.

The clear plastic cap was partially melted but there really in nothing to indicate if it happened before or because of the failure. I DO know there was one 3-4 inch piece of the rotor that was hot enough to start a grass fire more than 300' from where we ended up stopping.

BTW - my wife is a photographer, of course there are close to 100 photos covering every aspect of it from every conceivable angle.

Since long before we purchased our BC I ALWAYS check hub and tire temperatures and the hub temps seldom excede 34C-35C on the shaded side and 36-38C on the sunny side of the trailer.

Another BTW, we just finished the approx. 1900km drive to southern Ontario and after the first 150km or so none of the hubs required any additional oil with the new seals using a few (less than 10) drops of oil each. Kodiac specified that synthetic oil be used, we're using Amsoil 75-W90.

 

[porthole]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Lucas also distributes "hub oil" that is "supposedly" a better product, and a leak preventer-minimizer, also a synthetic.

I bought a quart last year at the Dover race, figuring on converting when I did my bearing maintenance. Because of some other work performed by MOR/ryde I ended up not needing the maintenance this year.
And after seeing my bearings after 5 years of use, I doubt I will have to re-pack them as long as we own this trailer.


https://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=13&iid=35&loc=show

 

[JonV]

Re: New Axel needed - urgently

Lucas also distributes "hub oil" that is "supposedly" a better product, and a leak preventer-minimizer, also a synthetic.

I bought a quart last year at the Dover race, figuring on converting when I did my bearing maintenance. Because of some other work performed by MOR/ryde I ended up not needing the maintenance this year.
And after seeing my bearings after 5 years of use, I doubt I will have to re-pack them as long as we own this trailer.


https://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=13&iid=35&loc=show

Thanks for the info and link.