New to the group and new 5ver User, need some towing advice please.

[blong]

Hello

New to the 5ver towing world and Hearland RV's. We just moved from a 32' TT to a 42' 5ver and I have a few questions i am hoping you folks with alot more experience than I can help with.
TV 2011 GMC Sierra Denali Dually 3500 CCLB (all stock no air bags or extra springs)
B&W Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch 18K (Highest and center position)
and the brand new TH
2011 Cyclone 3950 HD (its Awesome)

Just picked up the unit yesterday and towed about 250Kms home. Truck did fine pulling, very controlled, lttle lighter than normal in the front end but no issues.
Trailer was chucking alot on minor rough roads at highways speeds. Smooth roads and low speeds (under 40MPH) was perfect no chucking.

Notes:
No toys in the back or load in the storage it was completely empty. Today it will have all our stuff and a golf cart in the back.
Dealer installed the hitch and i suspect no lube anywhere and did not install the Nylon plate he provided as they thought these hitches were not designed to use them (read up on it and he is wrong)

Today I will unhook and grease the pivot points and the pin and install the nylon plate. It will have a fairly full load and we are travelling about 200KMs again to a campsite for a week.

Do you folks thinks the combination of a the load and greasing will resolve the chucking in any way?
I could move the pivot points of the companion hitch farther forward or backwards, 2 inches either way is the option? (need the height to stay the same to clear the box and the trailer is level)

or Do I really need to look into an air ride pin box of some kind, heard mixed results with them with regards to resolving chucking issues.

Sorry for the nubie questions but I do like to do things right and safe.

Many Thanks for any advice you could provide..

Brad

 

[danemayer]

Hi Brad,

Congratulations on your new Cyclone and welcome to the Heartland family and to the Owners Forum. You'll find a lot of useful information here and a lot of friendly people who are willing to share their knowledge and experience.

I'm sure other Cyclone owners will jump in shortly to give you their thoughts on the chucking you're experiencing.

 

[JohnDar]

I don't have a Cyclone, but if the nylon plate you're referring to is the round one that goes on the pin, it does not need grease. That's the purpose of the nylon ring, to eliminate greasing the pin and hitch plate, which can be rather messy if you brush against it. Greasing the hitch will not eliminate the chucking action, either. That's due to the movement of the pin within the the hitch as the truck and trailer bounce along. The standard pin boxes are rigid and don't flex. Changing it to a 5th Airborne, Tri-Glide, or MorRyde is what most owners do to reduce or eliminate the chucking.

Load up your truck and trailer as you would for a trip and take it to a CAT scale and get it weighed. That will tell you if you're good to go or overloaded.

 

[2TrakR]

We just picked up the exact same TH and have a 2012 GMC 2500HD CCSB. When the trailer was unloaded it chucked quite a bit on rough pavement and a little on not-super-smooth stuff. That was 400 miles to tow it home.
We loaded some bare essentials into the unit and did a short trip, chucking was better, but still noticeable on rougher pavement.
We fully loaded it, including 2/3 tank water and are 800 miles and 9 days into a 10 day trip. MUCH smoother. Truck still pulls with zero fuss. Only in super rough pavement do we get any jarring/chucking but not really any worse than if it were just the truck unloaded.

We need a few more trips to say for certain, but right now very happy with the tow/ride once the trailer is loaded down. For reference that's one full size ATV, dirt bike, kayak, 4 bicycles and misc gear in the garage plus all the other stuff elsewhere.

 

[porthole]

Two things you said got my attention.
First "light in the front end" and 2nd, 2" of adjustment.

With our trailer and 2 different tow vehicles, 06 GMC CC SB SRW and 11 Ford CC LB DRW, the front end weight each time I weighed either combo was within 40 pounds with or without the trailer.
That told me hitch placement and load were optimized.

If it was mine I would try moving the hitch forward the 2" and try again.

And I think you may need air bags to level the truck when loaded. Even our DRW needs "air" help.


Duane
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[blong]

thanks for the advice... I greased up the hitch properly, re-torqued all the bolts on the companion hitch, then we loaded it up with all our stuff, 1/2 tank of water, electric golf cart in the back, drove for 3 hours and still was very rough unless on really smooth roads. I am going to move the hitch forward the 2 inches i can, and see if that helps on the way home. If that does not help then I guess its either air bags for the truck or the pin box, or both, as we are planing a long trip to next March and we would be shaken to bits the way it tows now. so need to get it figured out.

Thanks again
Brad

 

[hoefler]

If you feel light in the front end, you are light in the front end. The hitch needs to move forward. You need to add weight to the steer axle when loaded, if you don't, the front end will bob up and down as you go down the road, which adds chucking.

 

[porthole]

Brad, how hard is it to move that hitch?

A suggestion? Get to a CAT Scale, weight the truck and trailer ($9). Go to the back of the lot, drop the trailer and go back for a "re-weigh" ($1).
Back in the lot move the hitch, hook up and do another re-weigh.

That will give you some baselines.

Does the GMC sit level with the trailer? That is a problem with the new Fords, they all need air bags, even the DRW's, to keep the truck level with a load.

Your truck shouldn't "feel light" in the front when towing.

 

[blong]

Hitch move takes about 20 minutes, I did it yesterday but will not be trying it out for another 10 days as we are parked in a campsite until then. Not really sure what a cat scale is or if we even have something similar up in here canada. Truck is on the helpers when loaded and about inch and half above them when empty, and it sits high in the back end normally. Still high when loaded but not as much. We'll see if the two inches i moved it forward will help. My guess is that it will not be enough... If not, air bags will the first step, also not sure if changing the pin box voids the warranty... and it will help smooth out my bumper pull with my (13k) bobcat too.

Any reccommentions on air bags? Automatic or Remote control? Duel compressors (someone here in the park showed me his yesterday with dual compressors so he could adjust each side separatly...sounds like overkill to me)?

Brad

 

[JohnDar]

CAT scales are where truckers get their rigs weighed. They will do anybody that pulls up, actually. Here's the link to locate one in Ontario.
http://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator?postalcode=&city=&state=ON&miles=2&cmdSearch=Search

 

[porthole]

Hitch move takes about 20 minutes, I did it yesterday but will not be trying it out for another 10 days as we are parked in a campsite until then. Not really sure what a cat scale is or if we even have something similar up in here canada. Truck is on the helpers when loaded and about inch and half above them when empty, and it sits high in the back end normally. Still high when loaded but not as much. We'll see if the two inches i moved it forward will help. My guess is that it will not be enough... If not, air bags will the first step, also not sure if changing the pin box voids the warranty... and it will help smooth out my bumper pull with my (13k) bobcat too.

Any reccommentions on air bags? Automatic or Remote control? Duel compressors (someone here in the park showed me his yesterday with dual compressors so he could adjust each side separatly...sounds like overkill to me)?

Brad

Air bags can be as simple as two manual fill ports at the rear bumper to as fancy as wireless remote controls.
I had the wireless kit in my GMC with Airlift air bags, great combo.
I am still using the wireless kit with my air bag equipped hitch.
The wireless kit will maintain individual bag control.

Changing the pin box does not void the warranty. Pin box changes are actually one of the options when you buy a trailer new.

When I picked air bags for the GMC I chose AirLift. Their bags are slightly bigger so they required less pressure for a given load compared to the Firestone bags.

 

[Bob&Patty]

2"s of forward movement will make alot of difference. Maybe up to 500#'s. The pin center point should be a little forward of the center of the axle. I think mine is about an inch or so forward of the center of the axle. Always think of a teeter-toter when figureing out weight movement for or aft. The amount of weight you put in the garage will make a difference also. The teeter-toter rule applys there also. To stop the "chucking" you will need to replace the pinbox with a airbag type or cushion type. Adding airbags will help a little also.

 

[yepuhuh]

Hello

New to the 5ver towing world and Hearland RV's. We just moved from a 32' TT to a 42' 5ver and I have a few questions i am hoping you folks with alot more experience than I can help with.
TV 2011 GMC Sierra Denali Dually 3500 CCLB (all stock no air bags or extra springs)
B&W Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch 18K (Highest and center position)
and the brand new TH
2011 Cyclone 3950 HD (its Awesome)

Just picked up the unit yesterday and towed about 250Kms home. Truck did fine pulling, very controlled, lttle lighter than normal in the front end but no issues.
Trailer was chucking alot on minor rough roads at highways speeds. Smooth roads and low speeds (under 40MPH) was perfect no chucking.

Notes:
No toys in the back or load in the storage it was completely empty. Today it will have all our stuff and a golf cart in the back.
Dealer installed the hitch and i suspect no lube anywhere and did not install the Nylon plate he provided as they thought these hitches were not designed to use them (read up on it and he is wrong)

Today I will unhook and grease the pivot points and the pin and install the nylon plate. It will have a fairly full load and we are travelling about 200KMs again to a campsite for a week.

Do you folks thinks the combination of a the load and greasing will resolve the chucking in any way?
I could move the pivot points of the companion hitch farther forward or backwards, 2 inches either way is the option? (need the height to stay the same to clear the box and the trailer is level)

or Do I really need to look into an air ride pin box of some kind, heard mixed results with them with regards to resolving chucking issues.

Sorry for the nubie questions but I do like to do things right and safe.

Many Thanks for any advice you could provide..

Brad

Hi Brad,
We used to have chucking as well. But not any more.

We changed the pin Hitch to a Moryeride 18k hitch and installed ourselves.
After that it got out some of the chucking probably about 50%.
Then I installed Air ride air bags
Chucking is gone.

It pulls so good now when it does chuck I know I hit some uneven payment!

MY TV is 2008 F350 DRW Long Base Superduty Not at 60PIS in the air bags it sits level.

One side note:
I installed the guage and fill in the cab and when I am going down the road you can see the 60PSI fluctuating more than 20 PSI......I guess those air bags take a beating!

 

[blong]

I moved the hitch the two inches forward. Today, we only towed it about a 1/2 mile at low speeds acroos the park to a storage spot, so pretty hard to tell if chucking is better or not. The front end lightness was a little better from what I could tell. Loaded height is 1/2" lower in the front, and 1 3/4" in the back, so for sure have some weight on the front end now and the back is only sinking less than 2", so if it still chucks, I may send the B&W companion hitch to a heavier full time 5ver hitch that has some more forward adjustment.
I will be towing it about 120 miles next weekend and we will see if the hitch moved helped.

Brad

 

[CactusTwo]

We have a Cyclone 3950, 2008 3500 crew long box with air-ride bags with 1 manual fill point at rear license plate . We bought a 5th airborne after our first horrible chucking trip and have had a great ride since. We've put on 22,000 kms since and DW is still happy.....you know what they say " Happy wife, happy life"
full timers since Sept 2011

 

[blong]

Thanks, greate to know something works well as we really love this trailer and want to do some long haul trips with it next season..It is a 5th airbourne "sidewinder"? or do they make ones that are not Sidewinder? Looks like the nice grey matching pin box cover we have will still fit over it.. did yours?
Unfortunately our B&W companion hitch will not work with a side winder hitch that uses a wedge.
What kind of airbags do you have?

 

[TravelTiger]

The sidewinder is the equivelent of a slider hitch, geared for short bed trucks. The plain 5th Airborne is probably what you are looking for. Here is one:

http://tweetys.com/fifth-airbourne-pin-box.aspx

 

[blong]

Thanks, I will try air bags first and have ordered an Air lift Loadlifter 5000 air bag kit with a WirelessOne controller/compressor. This should also help when towing my Bobcat so made the most sense as a first step.
I will let you know how the install goes and if they help with the chucking and/or overall ride quality over the next few weeks.
thanks again for the advice folks.

 

[blong]

Updates.
Air lift kit required drilling into the frame with an installed fifth or gooseneck hitch. It uses ubolts that will not fit over the B&W gooseneck mounting plates attached to the frame, so I changed to the Firestone bags with the WirelessOne compressor. Firestone upper mounting plate bolts into existing joist bumper stop and only has tabs that go up the side of the frame that fit in between the mouning plate and the frame as the frame is curved at this point. So No drilling.

Couple of tips for install on an 11 GMC dually,
*Firestone air bags Lit 2528: you will have to removve the mount for th emergency Brake cable on the drivers side and reroute the line under the bottom air bag mount once you get the bags installed 9no mention on this in the instructions. And then on the passenger side same cable mount can just be bent out slightlty for the base of the bags mount and to sit flat.
*Air lift Wireless one Kit: DO NOT us eht provide template or the recommended drill bit size od 1/4" The template is wrong and your holes will not line up, i found out the hard way, and had to drill second set of hole in the compressor mount and use nuts and bolts instead of the self tapping screws as now the holes were to big. Use a 7/32 bit for all self tapping screws and you will be fine. Semes to work okay did have some trouble with the fuse tap and eneded up connecting to a terminal in the fuse box instead of tapping an existing fuse. I Mounted the compressor and the controller on the support bar just ahead of the fuel tank.

we parked beside another Big Cyclone (2012 3800) and the owner was driving a 2008 GMC dually so asked how his towed and he said fine with Air bags and standard Pin Box. And they travel quite extensivly, so I have some hope this install will make a big difference.
Also found air in trailer tires was low at 60 pounds (seems the dealer did not check this) so i put 80 in all around. We towed the trailer about 3 hours home last sunday (no airbags yet) and still checked alot even after the hitch move forward. We iwll see how the aitr bags do on the 17th and if that does not help with the chucking, a new pin box will be next.
Brad

 

[blong]

Towed for 3 hours yesterday air Bags and pin box make a huge difference. Running about 80 pounds in the bags and 90 in the pin box think it could use less as was still alittle bouncy.
We hit the scales on the way down and the numbers, as every one has suggested, were much higher that we expected.
truck 9300 lbs
Combined 27,300 lbs
Pin weight 3700+ lbs
18000 total Trailer alone
14300 Trailer tri axles only

We had very little luggage, 2/3 tank fresh water, 27 gallons of fuel, 1/2 tank black, no grey, and our 1000 lb electric golf cart in the back.
Drained the 2/3 of fresh water we had in the tank during the rest of trip to the park and that seems to help with the little bouncing we had left.

Couple hours after we arrived noticed a chemical smell underet eh front and found the Battery litterly smoking and really hot in its box. Removed it and called the dealer. Looks like we have an over charging issue, thankfully we caught it before the battery blew up. Always a few bugs to work out with a new rig and hopefully this will be the worst of them.

Thanks for all the help and advice on the towing issues. I am still surprised that air bags and an air pin box were required to smooth it out, though the dually would have had more control of it.

Brad