Newbie electrical usage Qs and other misc stuff...

[Natesi]

Howdy all

Me again – totally new to RVing and looking to live full time in a 3670RL this spring. I found someone that is interested in letting me rent their RV parking space on the side of their house with full hook ups. They will install 50amp service for me – how lucky!

But I have a some questions that I need some expert / experienced advice on though…. Especially in regards to electrical usage.

1—We’re trying to figure out the amount of electrical I would consume. I was hoping to come up with an average number to pay them every month. I was hoping to get some feedback to see what electrical might run. Here’s some additional info….

• The location is Portland, OR
• Low winter temps can get down to the teens, but the average is around 32 ish
• High summer temps can break 100 -- I’d say the average 85, but weather data is saying 80 (seems low to me).
• I work a normal 40 hours per week, so I won’t be in the RV 24/7 – although I won’t want to let the inside temps get too out of control while I’m gone (say 62-ish in the winter and 85-ish as a high in the summer??).
• I’m planning on only using the single 15000 BTU A/C unit in the summer.
• I’m planning on supplementing the gas furnace with the electrical fire place in the winter.
• I like it cool when I sleep ~65 degrees for the winter; 72 to 74 in the summer (maybe even lower).
• Their house is behind a fairly busy street, so I will probably have to keep the windows shut most of the time in order to sleep at night – which means more A/C use.
• I’m planning on getting double pane windows
• I’m planning to wrap my pipes and tanks with heat tape for the Winter (not sure how much that draws)
• I WILL have a washer and dryer in the Big Horn – I average 2 to 3 loads a week with a normal washer/dryer (not sure what that equates to for smaller mobile units and electrical usage).

From what I can tell, electrical here ranges from 8.231 per kWh to 10 cents per kWh (I think 8.231 kWh for the first 250 kWh used -- and after that 10 cents per kWh). Might as well figure 10 cents per kWh, since that’s the rate that I’ll be adding to the bill.


2—Space is gong to be tight. How wide is the 3670RL with the slide-outs extended? Is the length truly 38ft and 1 inch, or does that not include the hitch and the rear ladder?


3—Half of the spot is concrete slab and the other is dirt. My gut tells me that one axle will be on the dirt and the other will be on the slab. If the axles/wheels are not level, is that bad?


4—Just curious about how the 50 amp service is run. Does one 120 watt leg go to power everything but the A/C, and the other 120 watt leg power the washer/dryer and second A/C?

Is there any limitation on what I can do at the same time? Can I vacuum, run the W/D, run the TV, and the A/C at the same time? What should I NOT run concurrently? I should be able to run the W/D and A/C right?


5—Any opinions on what a good price would be for the rent (not including electric)? A local trailer/RV park goes for $425 which includes water. The location is pretty good, but it’s in a REALLY old park. I think I’d feel out of place in a huge, shiny, new 2011 Big Horn though.

THANKS!!

-Nathan

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

Is it possible to get a meter and base to keep track of usage? I know in Michigan it is possible to buy meters.

 

[Natesi]

Hmm... I don't know. I think they are trying to do this on the cheap -- I'm not sure they will want to install a meter. I'm assuming a separate meter would mean separate electrical service with Portland General Electric.

The woman seems to think that her husband can install 50 amp service by himself. She says he "does it all". I was reading up on it, and in principal, the basics don't seem too hard, but I don't know what I don't know...

Like, can a person typically just add an additional 50 amps to thier residential service off of the existing circuit breaker box??

-Nathan

 

[newbie]

Yes, he can add 50 amp service easily. You can also blow up your camper if it' not wired right. Since the homeowner is a handyman he will surely have an electric meter he can use to demonstrate the correct wiring for you. On the 50 amp receptacle (NEMA 14-50R ) you will have 2 hots and a ground. The meter should read 120V from hot to neutral and hot to ground (X2 since there are two hot legs) and 240V from hot to hot. Ground to neutral should read 0 volts. Make sure the breaker feeding the receptacle is 2 pole, 50 amps.

Don't let the guy bully you or shame you ("I've been doing this for 40 years, pal") into accepting his wiring without verifying voltage, polarity, etc. Where I work in commercial construction, this is ALWAYS done before equipment is plugged in- even if Edison himself wired it.

John

 

[Boca_Shuffles]

The published trailer length is the inside length. Several people have had problems closing garage doors when they only had room for the published length in their storage facility.

 

[JohnDar]

The published trailer length is the inside length. Several people have had problems closing garage doors when they only had room for the published length in their storage facility.

I didn't know that. No wonder I forgot where I put the truck when I walked to the rear of it.

Based on Rick's comment, I wonder if something like this would work, short of installing a power company meter? http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/microcustom/boat-portable-electricity-meter-23260-57173.html

 

[jbeletti]

I'd say $50-$75 would likely be a fair monthly rate for electricity.

Some full-timers may weigh-in here on what they spend on average on their monthly rented sites where they pay for electricity on a metered basis.

Jim

 

[JohnDar]

Yes, he can add 50 amp service easily. You can also blow up your camper if it' not wired right. Since the homeowner is a handyman he will surely have an electric meter he can use to demonstrate the correct wiring for you. On the 50 amp receptacle (NEMA 14-50R ) you will have 2 hots and a ground. The meter should read 120V from hot to neutral and hot to ground (X2 since there are two hot legs) and 240V from hot to hot. Ground to neutral should read 0 volts. Make sure the breaker feeding the receptacle is 2 pole, 50 amps.

Don't let the guy bully you or shame you ("I've been doing this for 40 years, pal") into accepting his wiring without verifying voltage, polarity, etc. Where I work in commercial construction, this is ALWAYS done before equipment is plugged in- even if Edison himself wired it.

John

I wired a 50A subpanel into my garage off the house main panel and installed circuits/breakers for running my woodworking tools. But, I pulled a state permit (no local electrical inspectors) and had it inspected. Nice green approved sticker on the panel box door. If the owner of the lot takes any shortcuts, isn't 100% certain in what he's doing, or uses bargain basement materials....please refer to the smoke detector discussions in another thread.

 

[osims]

I would have the elecrical work checked also. We always use a surge protector, even at home. Most SP will tell you if there is wiring problem. I have pulled into a couple of campgrounds and had red flashing lights on the SP letting me know there is faulty wiring.
Bill

 

[2010augusta]

1—We’re trying to figure out the amount of electrical I would consume. I was hoping to come up with an average number to pay them every month. I was hoping to get some feedback to see what electrical might run. Here’s some additional info….


• I’m planning on only using the single 15000 BTU A/C unit in the summer. If you can afford it get the 2nd A/C it is worth every penny to have a cool bedroom at night.
• I’m planning on getting double pane windows Good idea.
• I’m planning to wrap my pipes and tanks with heat tape for the Winter (not sure how much that draws) can you order the factory tank heaters?

From what I can tell, electrical here ranges from 8.231 per kWh to 10 cents per kWh (I think 8.231 kWh for the first 250 kWh used -- and after that 10 cents per kWh). Might as well figure 10 cents per kWh, since that’s the rate that I’ll be adding to the bill.

In the heat of a South Texas summer we had both A/C running nearly 24/7 and if our electric would have been 8.5/kWh our monthly bill would have been about $90. our winter usage should be a bit less, but now we are in the cooler weather of the NW, but we are expecting it to be around $50-60.


2—Space is gong to be tight. How wide is the 3670RL with the slide-outs extended? Is the length truly 38ft and 1 inch, or does that not include the hitch and the rear ladder?

The unit is 14'2" at the widest area with the slide toppers, you can subtract a couple inches if you don't have them, but with the rain in the NW we like them. For the length I measure 40'6". and that is pin-box to end of ladder.

3—Half of the spot is concrete slab and the other is dirt. My gut tells me that one axle will be on the dirt and the other will be on the slab. If the axles/wheels are not level, is that bad?

Just place a board down to get the two axles about level, you want the suspension to be equal on both axles.

4—Just curious about how the 50 amp service is run. Does one 120 watt leg go to power everything but the A/C, and the other 120 watt leg power the washer/dryer and second A/C?

Is there any limitation on what I can do at the same time? Can I vacuum, run the W/D, run the TV, and the A/C at the same time? What should I NOT run concurrently? I should be able to run the W/D and A/C right?

The 120 service on 50 amp supply is ran so every other circuit is on each leg of the 120 service, (i.e. breakers 1,3,5 are on leg 1 and breakers 2,4,6 are on leg 2). the only limits I have ever had are when we are using electric heaters and I plug in the large electric griddle into the same circuit on accident and it will trip a circuit breaker. I have had both A/C's, the TV, Surround sound system, Vacuum, Washer and dryer on and maybe even the microwave all at the same time.

Get a good EMS (electrical management system) like the Progressive Industries unit. It will save you a lot of money if you are unsure about the power supply.

5—Any opinions on what a good price would be for the rent (not including electric)? A local trailer/RV park goes for $425 which includes water. The location is pretty good, but it’s in a REALLY old park. I think I’d feel out of place in a huge, shiny, new 2011 Big Horn though.

We have been paying $375 in Gig Harbor, WA, less in TX

 

[Natesi]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I've been reading about all the stuff that can go wrong when wiring up a 50amp pedestal. I plan on getting a good surge protector for the BH. I'll probably get a multi-meter too. I'd imagine I'll be needing one eventually anyway. Any recommendations on the multi-meter?

-Nathan

 

[2010augusta]

I added the length to the last post, had to wait for the sun to rise. it is 40'6".

for a multi meter, I have used a Beckman Industrial DM5XL for about 16 years. It has served me well and works so long as the 9volt battery is good. We have a remote display for our EMS to monitor incoming line voltage and current usage and frequency.

 

[caissiel]

We drive south and enjoy the warm weather in Florida to save on heating bill. I Spend one winter in my RV. I was alone and the temperature outside was down to -30F. When the furnace runs all the time you have about 11 Hrs of propane in one tank. I use to exchange my Propane 30Lbs tanks every 3 days. Averaged 2 tanks per week. I also was using a 1500 Watt electric heater in the trailer that ran most of the time and a 750 Watt unit that kept the belly from freezing. I also had a 60 Watt bulb in the water compartment to keep the pump from freezing. At the time it cost $500.00 to heat the house that I rented so it was not so bad in the 5th wheel.

 

[newbie]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I've been reading about all the stuff that can go wrong when wiring up a 50amp pedestal. I plan on getting a good surge protector for the BH. I'll probably get a multi-meter too. I'd imagine I'll be needing one eventually anyway. Any recommendations on the multi-meter?

-Nathan

Nathan,

I have had 4 multimeters, three of which I bought at Home Depot/ Lowes. They all have been okay. Recently I picked up a used Fluke. I always shied away from Fluke because they are expensive. After using the Fluke, I now know why people spend the money. I absolutely love it. I would recommend buying a used Fluke on Ebay or Craigslist. You will never regret the purchase. Also, you can get a used Fluke for less than a cheap Chinese-Home Depot model.

I also should mention the reasons I have 4 meters. I started with an entry level meter (read cheap) and over the years needed more features. Make sure you get True RMS and frequency measurement if you ever plan on having a generator.

Here is a link to the Fluke 8060A I have that I found on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/FLUKE-8060A-MUL...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414b64e545

John

 

[Natesi]

Thanks everyone, you've been an immense help.

I noticed that the Progressive EMS-PT50C has some digital read outs, but nothing that measures kWh usage. It would be killer to get a surge protector with a kWh reading as well too. I don't see why someone doesn't make one for a 50 amp plug. I got one for my house for like $30, but it's just regular two prong...

If someone DOES come across something that I can just plug right in, PLEASE let me know!!

Thanks again,

-Nathan

 

[JohnDar]

Thanks everyone, you've been an immense help.

I noticed that the Progressive EMS-PT50C has some digital read outs, but nothing that measures kWh usage. It would be killer to get a surge protector with a kWh reading as well too. I don't see why someone doesn't make one for a 50 amp plug. I got one for my house for like $30, but it's just regular two prong...

If someone DOES come across something that I can just plug right in, PLEASE let me know!!

Thanks again,

-Nathan

The Progressive unit already runs about $400, so adding that feature (if possible) would shoot it higher. Good, bad, maybe?? Anyways, if you look at the link in my earlier post, there are some marine devices that plug in that will read kWh. Whether or not they are applicable to your situation you might be able to find out by contacting them.

 

[Natesi]

The Progressive unit already runs about $400, so adding that feature (if possible) would shoot it higher. Good, bad, maybe?? Anyways, if you look at the link in my earlier post, there are some marine devices that plug in that will read kWh. Whether or not they are applicable to your situation you might be able to find out by contacting them.

I doubt adding a kWh reading would add to the cost, as it's just another algorithm that can be programmed into the device. The only cost would be the initial labor to hire someone to make the program and update the menu so that one could navigate to that reading on the device.

Anyhoo... I see what you're talking about now with the link. At first I went to the bottom of the page and looked at the wrong product. I don't know how that blue marine device could be adapted though, since it's some sort of weird 3 plug thing and 50 amp service is 4 plug. It's also a bit strange there's not much information available on that product.

 

[JohnDar]

I doubt adding a kWh reading would add to the cost, as it's just another algorithm that can be programmed into the device. The only cost would be the initial labor to hire someone to make the program and update the menu so that one could navigate to that reading on the device.

Anyhoo... I see what you're talking about now with the link. At first I went to the bottom of the page and looked at the wrong product. I don't know how that blue marine device could be adapted though, since it's some sort of weird 3 plug thing and 50 amp service is 4 plug. It's also a bit strange there's not much information available on that product.

You're probably right, but maybe it's just never been a big request from their customers. At the CG that we use, our seasonal site has a meter on it and we pay electric. Short term sites do not and the user pays the flat nightly rate, just like at the state parks (no meters). I don't think Progressive monitors this forum, but if you go to their website and e-mail a question, the owner replies.

Here's a link to the manufacturer of the plug-in device I mentioned. Interesting, but it does not look like they make one for 240V/50A service.
http://www.microcustom.co.uk/index.html

 

[Natesi]

Yeah; emailed Progressive and got a reply today. I'm out of luck in regards to any product they offer. BUT I did ask the owner if there was a particular reason (that I can't think of) why manufacturers don't add a kWh rating to devices like this.

We'll see what he says....

 

[jmgratz]

Yeah; emailed Progressive and got a reply today. I'm out of luck in regards to any product they offer. BUT I did ask the owner if there was a particular reason (that I can't think of) why manufacturers don't add a kWh rating to devices like this.

We'll see what he says....

We can read our own meter at this RV Park at they have a digital counter on the pedestal. Easy enough to keep track of. All you have to do is subtact the starting number from the current reading and multiply that by the kwh rate. Last month our electric ran us $65.