2017 Heartland Pioneer - Propane alarm started going off and would not stop. I disconnected it and when trying to connect it back, the overhead lights turned off. Then, I realized the heat was not working and the hot water will not work with gas or electric. We have tested the power coming into the camper and there is power. The battery is working too. I thought it might be the convertor, so I replaced it and it still doesn't work. What else do I need to try?
No lights, no air or heater, no hot water
- Thread starter ljhicks68
- Start date
taskswap
Well-known member
We need to know more about the history of your camper and PRECISELY what you've done. What I mean is, when you say "tested the power ... and there is power" what exactly does that mean? What does "the battery is working" actually mean?
Disconnecting a device and reconnecting it should never make another device fail unless something is seriously wrong. What led you to replace the converter? What did you replace it with, and precisely how did you do this replacement? What are your current voltages on both AC and DC lines? What was your DC voltage before you replaced the converter, and then after? What type of batteries do you have, and what is their current state of charge?
Disconnecting a device and reconnecting it should never make another device fail unless something is seriously wrong. What led you to replace the converter? What did you replace it with, and precisely how did you do this replacement? What are your current voltages on both AC and DC lines? What was your DC voltage before you replaced the converter, and then after? What type of batteries do you have, and what is their current state of charge?
Rip
Member
Near your batteries, find your 12V mini breakers, and feel for a reset button on the hot side.
View attachment 68411
View attachment 68411
wdk450
Well-known member
For safety reasons the propane alarm HAS NO EXTERNAL FUSING TO THE 12 VOLT DC POWER SYSTEM. You don't want an unknown external blown fuse to keep your anti-explosion propane detector alarm to not work. There is an internal fuse in the propane detector, and the loss of (or low) 12 volts DC power will cause the propane detector to sound for a while until its internal backup battery runs out. (You hear the beeping from the detector and low batteries at a lot of RV storage facilities - That's why it is a good idea to disconnect the battery system in long term storage) Right now I can't remember how the propane detector gets it's power (direct connection to the battery??), but I'm sure some more in the know Heartlander will chip in. According to the Airstream and Keystone RV forums the propane detector should be direct wired to the battery with no fusing.
IF the hot wire for the propane detector is hot wired to the battery with no fuse in between, AND you inadvertently TOUCHED this hot wire directly connected to the hot side of your battery TO GROUND, you have created a dead short across your battery with the detector supply wiring, and I would have expected a good sized spark, some smoke, and that supply wire being melted apart somewhere. Your battery unfused can put out something like 200 amps. This shouldn't have affected the other 12 volt DC and 120 volt AC circuits, but with a high current fault, who knows?? The modern converter/chargers are microprocessor based, but do have like 3 large current protective fuses on the 12 volt output on the external area of the converter case, near the 12 volt output wiring connectors. The easiest and surest way to take the converter/charger out of the 12 volt circuit is to pull those fuses, short of disconnecting the 12 volt wiring which you have to be very careful no to touch to ground, as the battery is still connected to the 12 volt circuit. The 12 volt main non self resetting 50 amp circuit breaker should protect that wiring, though.
The logical way to troubleshoot loss of power is to start measuring at the power source and then work your way "downstream" until the point of power loss is detected. I would start with the AC circuits as they are partially responsible for creating the DC power through the converter/charger with the battery as a DC backup. Measure at the park pedestal , then maybe at the inside AC breaker box mains wiring by removing the breaker box surround trim. The mains breakers are usually on the left end of the breaker box, with 2 large feed wires attached to them and the neutral wire attached to the common neutral buss, and the ground wire attached to the ground buss. Between the park power outlet is your power cord connectors, your input power connector to your rig (or maybe the cord reel), under the trailer to the front storage area where the transfer switch or power protection relay (both optional) might be then on to the AC circuit breaker box mentioned before.
Your 12 volt DC system has 2 power sources, the charger/converter and the battery as power sources with the non-self resetting 50 amp circuit breaker on the DC buss bar with other SIMILAR self resetting 12 volt high current circuit breakers, but all the rest SELF RESET when the overload current condition is removed. That special circuit breaker for the battery/charger connection has a tiny black reset button on the side of it to reset it after an overload condition is encountered. That breaker is also unique in that the direction of DC current flow through it goes both directions: towards the battery from the charger when the batter is charging, and from the battery towards the 12 volt buss bar and charger, and 12 volt small loads on the inside 12 volt fusepanel when the converter/charger is not working and the battery is supplying all 12 volt DC power.
See page 5 of this document for a generic Heartland 120 volt AC wiring diagram. Only 1 outlet is shown, but there are lots of others connected to different breakers in the breaker box. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/User Guides/Electrical V2.pdf
Here is a good 12 volt DC resource from our library. See page 4 for the 12 volt DC generic diagram :
IF the hot wire for the propane detector is hot wired to the battery with no fuse in between, AND you inadvertently TOUCHED this hot wire directly connected to the hot side of your battery TO GROUND, you have created a dead short across your battery with the detector supply wiring, and I would have expected a good sized spark, some smoke, and that supply wire being melted apart somewhere. Your battery unfused can put out something like 200 amps. This shouldn't have affected the other 12 volt DC and 120 volt AC circuits, but with a high current fault, who knows?? The modern converter/chargers are microprocessor based, but do have like 3 large current protective fuses on the 12 volt output on the external area of the converter case, near the 12 volt output wiring connectors. The easiest and surest way to take the converter/charger out of the 12 volt circuit is to pull those fuses, short of disconnecting the 12 volt wiring which you have to be very careful no to touch to ground, as the battery is still connected to the 12 volt circuit. The 12 volt main non self resetting 50 amp circuit breaker should protect that wiring, though.
The logical way to troubleshoot loss of power is to start measuring at the power source and then work your way "downstream" until the point of power loss is detected. I would start with the AC circuits as they are partially responsible for creating the DC power through the converter/charger with the battery as a DC backup. Measure at the park pedestal , then maybe at the inside AC breaker box mains wiring by removing the breaker box surround trim. The mains breakers are usually on the left end of the breaker box, with 2 large feed wires attached to them and the neutral wire attached to the common neutral buss, and the ground wire attached to the ground buss. Between the park power outlet is your power cord connectors, your input power connector to your rig (or maybe the cord reel), under the trailer to the front storage area where the transfer switch or power protection relay (both optional) might be then on to the AC circuit breaker box mentioned before.
Your 12 volt DC system has 2 power sources, the charger/converter and the battery as power sources with the non-self resetting 50 amp circuit breaker on the DC buss bar with other SIMILAR self resetting 12 volt high current circuit breakers, but all the rest SELF RESET when the overload current condition is removed. That special circuit breaker for the battery/charger connection has a tiny black reset button on the side of it to reset it after an overload condition is encountered. That breaker is also unique in that the direction of DC current flow through it goes both directions: towards the battery from the charger when the batter is charging, and from the battery towards the 12 volt buss bar and charger, and 12 volt small loads on the inside 12 volt fusepanel when the converter/charger is not working and the battery is supplying all 12 volt DC power.
See page 5 of this document for a generic Heartland 120 volt AC wiring diagram. Only 1 outlet is shown, but there are lots of others connected to different breakers in the breaker box. https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/User Guides/Electrical V2.pdf
Here is a good 12 volt DC resource from our library. See page 4 for the 12 volt DC generic diagram :
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The reason that I replaced the convertor is because the battery would not maintain a charge. However, for some odd reason, the overhead lights randomly came on this morning about 12 hours, after replacing the convertor. I don't understand why it didn't work when I replaced it, but everything is working now, and the battery stays charged.
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad you mentioned the propane detector. I failed to mention in my original post that when I did try to screw the face plate of the alarm back on the wall, the power went out, I discounted trying to mount the plate, and when I released the face plate from the wall, I did see a small amount of smoke. After I replaced the convertor because I knew it needed replacing, since the battery would not maintain a charge, and had to stay connected to a battery charger, I replaced the convertor. However, nothing worked still, until about 12 hours later, all the power randomly came on, and has worked all day.
david-steph2018
Well-known member
Before you pitch the old converter, check and see if the reverse polarity fuses are NOT blown. if so, you may be able to replace these fuses and have a spare converter on hand.
