North trail 21FBS electrical problem

[Carmen A]

We recently purchased a 2016 North Trail 21 FBS from General RV. While gone on vacation the trailer kept tripping the ground fault
servicing the garage where it was plugged into. My neighbor an electrician traced the problem to the trailer. Once it was unplugged no more issues with the power in the garage. This morning I switched off all the breakers in the trailer and turned one on at a time. When I switched on the microwave breaker it tripped the GFI in the garage again. I unplugged the microwave and tried it again and again it tripped the GFI. Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?
Thanks
Carmen

 

[Carmen A]

I narrowed it down to the microwave circuit by turning off all the breakers and turning them back on one at a time.
I tried unplugging the microwave and flipping on the breaker and again it tripped the garage GFI. The microwave breaker never
was tripped. Could it just be a bad breaker ?
Carmen

 

[danemayer]

GFCI outlets trip when there's detection of a power leak, where the outgo and return don't match. A common cause is moisture. The breaker for the microwave carries the hot wire only, so I'm not sure how that could account for the problem.

Is there anything else on that circuit besides the microwave - perhaps a nearby outlet?

 

[TrailCreek]

You can buy an inexpensive plug in circuit tester to know if there are issues. Could be the breaker.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[Carmen A]

GFCI outlets trip when there's detection of a power leak, where the outgo and return don't match. A common cause is moisture. The breaker for the microwave carries the hot wire only, so I'm not sure how that could account for the problem.

Is there anything else on that circuit besides the microwave - perhaps a nearby outlet?

No just the microwave is on that circuit. My neighbor an electrician thinks the outlet the microwave is plugged into might be bad or a wire might be loose.

 

[wdk450]

GFI's measure that the amount of current flow in an AC power circuit is BALANCED: That is the current in the hot black wire is equal (within 5/1000s of an ampere limit) to the amount of current in the white neutral return wire. Any differential in the current flows IS PERCEIVED TO BE WORST CASE ELECTRICAL SHOCK OF A HUMAN BEING, and the GFCI shuts off the power within milliseconds to prevent electrocution. GFCI's being required by electrical code in wet and outdoors locations has been a major public health advance, right up there with chlorinated drinking water. When I was a kid reports of accidental electrocutions were common in the local newspaper. They are pretty rare anymore.

That being said, and having spent my professional career as a University Medical Center Biomedical Electronics Technician during a 30 year period of increased use of digital logic based electronic devices in hospitals, I saw rising use of FCC mandated power line filters which many times had capacitors from hot and neutral to ground to "short out" high frequency electrical noise spikes. This would cause failure on new equipment incoming electrical safety tests, which have a far tighter leakage spec of 20 /1,000,000 of an ampere for medical use. I first noticed this in the mid 1980's when IBM PC's were starting to be integrated into specialized medical measurement equipments. A little tracing tracked down the high leakage (for medical use) to the modular power line filters and their capacitors across the incoming power and ground wires. This was eventually addressed by the electrical industry and a new class of Medical Grade Power line filters without the capacitors was developed. This spiel was mainly to inform anyone that if you have any digital devices plugged in they probably have the conventional power line filters as a component, and can be introducing leakage currents that could add up and cause those mystery GFCI trips.

For your garage situation, you could replace that GFCI outlet with a mains GFCI circuit breaker that has a 30 mA trip level.

Did your electrician actually measure the AC leakage current from RV chassis to ground with the ground wire connection opened?

BTW, if you have a solid, low mlilliohm connection in your incoming power wiring from RV frame to true earth ground, all of that leakage should be harmlessly conducted to ground, and you are at no risk in your RV. That being said we always tested medical electrical equipment to pass the low electrical leakage spec WITH THE GROUND CONNECTION OPEN (disconnected) to simulate a broken ground wire in a cord wall plug, a common occurrence where people often thoughtlessly pull on the cord cable to unplug something instead of pulling of the plug body.

 

[cookie]

I am a bit confused. Why would Heartland put a GFI in the garage to protect the microwave. Why not jut put the GFI at the microwave? There must be something else on that circuit or some previous owner did some rewiring. I'm thinking the latter.
The microwave does not need to be protected by GFI but it should be on its own circuit.
Might be time to call in the neighbor to straighten things out.

Peace
Dave

 

[danemayer]

I am a bit confused. Why would Heartland put a GFI in the garage to protect the microwave. Why not jut put the GFI at the microwave? There must be something else on that circuit or some previous owner did some rewiring. I'm thinking the latter.
The microwave does not need to be protected by GFI but it should be on its own circuit.
Might be time to call in the neighbor to straighten things out.

Peace
Dave

I assumed the OP was talking about a GFCI outlet in the garage of his home.

 

[Carmen A]

Maybe I wasn't clear the GFI that keeps tripping is in the garage. When I turn off all the breakers in the trailer and turn them on one at a time as soon as I turn the microwave breaker on it trips the garage GFI. Now this just started happening within the last week. I actually had everything running with no problems before this. My neighbor thinks it might be a loose wire or a bad microwave outlet in the trailer.

 

[Bogie]

A couple of thoughts.

Is your microwave in a slide out? If yes, check the the wire in the flexible arm. It may have some skin removed, or the wires touching internally.

If no, I would disassemble the plug for the microwave and remove the wires from it. Then test again. If it still trips, you
may have to trace the wire all the way back to the RV breaker box and look for any issues with the wire.

If you are comfortable working in the breaker box of the trailer, also check that the all the wires on the microwave circuit connected and isolated properly within.

Though your description doesn't necessarily suggest it, it is possible for GFCI's to go bad. If all else fails, you might try changing out the GFCI.

 

[Carmen A]

General Rv worked on the trailer for a cracked gray water drain pipe that was filling the underbelly pan. This is how it was repaired.

I called them and they're reply was there was no way this could affect the electrical problem with the microwave circuit. Is the converter close to the breaker panel? She also stated the appliances and AC could not run off a 110 garage outlet it has to be a 30 or 50 amp shore power. I asked her how it was possible to run the AC and refrigerator for 2 weeks straight when I purchased the unit in July. Again she said impossible. Could that have screwed the trailer up?

 

[Bogie]

I have connected my trailer to a 15 amp, GFCI protected circuit from my garage many times. Only problem I ever had was can't run the AC because it trips the breaker eventually (never trips the GFCI). My previous rig was 30 Amp. The current one is 50 Amp.

Some WFCO units have the converter built into the bottom of the unit. Check out THIS link. If you have this type and they pulled it out to work on the other issue, there is certainly the potential for disturbing the wiring.

Looking over your repair summery, the "reinstalled panel using air stapler" caught my eye. Does the wire to the microwave outlet run anywhere near that location? If yes, they could have put a nail through the wire. Also, if the wire for the microwave runs through the under belly where they were working, there is potential that the wire could have been nicked during that operation as well.

 

[Carmen A]

I have connected my trailer to a 15 amp, GFCI protected circuit from my garage many times. Only problem I ever had was can't run the AC because it trips the breaker eventually (never trips the GFCI). My previous rig was 30 Amp. The current one is 50 Amp.

Some WFCO units have the converter built into the bottom of the unit. Check out THIS link. If you have this type and they pulled it out to work on the other issue, there is certainly the potential for disturbing the wiring.

Looking over your repair summery, the "reinstalled panel using air stapler" caught my eye. Does the wire to the microwave outlet run anywhere near that location? If yes, they could have put a nail through the wire. Also, if the wire for the microwave runs through the under belly where they were working, there is potential that the wire could have been nicked during that operation as well.

That's what I was thinking as well. Just seems to coincidental that the problem started after they worked on it. Long story about all the issues I've had with this trailer and the terrible service I've experienced throughout the deal with General RV. I have an appointment with Camping World next week to repair it.

 

[wdk450]

I hope you get this worked out, but going from General RV service department to a Camping World Service department doesn't sound like a step up, from all the negative postings I have read about Camping World RV service. Could I suggest you check RVServiceReviews.com for an INDEPENDENT (No RV Sales) RV servicer in your area with good reviews?

 

[CoveredWagon]

Unplug the microwave and see If that trip the ground fault. If yes is the breaker, wiring or the outlet the micro wave is plugged into. If not it's the micro wave.
Try plugging the microwave into the garage outlet via an extension cord.