Not Going to lie, pretty dissapointed with Heartland's North Trail product

[Nathan]

After retiring my old Springdale My wife and I purchased a brand new 2012 30QOK travel trailer by North Trail. Since we picked up this trailer we have had nothing but problems. NOT just minor problems but major problems! Luckily, this forum has helped me especially with the Axle sag (bad axle(s) issue). I have documented everything that has gone on with this unit. One of my biggest gripes is how long it has taken to get parts for this unit. Why can't Heartland ship parts from it's factory and THEN go after the company that made whatever component that was defective? This would seem to get rid of alot of the Red tape.. Heartland, don't pass the buck, take responsibility for goodness sake! My second gripe is the lack of follow up with Heartland. Here is a list of the issues I have had with this unit.

On our first trip in early May we went to Fisherman's Memorial Park in Rhode Island.. The coach pulled terrible on the way down (IN FACT in pulled terribly when I drove it out of the dealership!) I couldn't travel over 50MPH. We get down there and I hook up the essentials. My wife tells me "Houston we got a problem" and I ask her what up. It ends up that the plumbing for the main Kitchen sink was not hooked up. It took me two hours to fix it. If I was a plumber it was a quick fix. Also, on this trip the cabinets kept breaking. The hinges wouldn't stay in the doors. I brought it to the dealership before our next trip and they "fixed" it.

The next trip was to the Friendly Beaver campground in NH. Once again the cabinets kept braking and the tv's appeared to be snowy (outside of the main TV). Again the towing was atrocius. I was concerned that it was my truck, it's not it ends up being the axles which were sagging.

Next trip was to Moose Hillock in the White Mountains of NH. Here is a list of everything that went wrong there! (this was an email to the service center at my dealer),
1)Gray tank #2 termination keeps dragging on the ground and has becomedamaged. This will probably keep happening because the termination pointis below the stabilization jacks. There probably needs to be a permanentsolution. I am also concerned that the rear stabilization jacks keepdragging on the ground (usually, where a two roads meet (one being on a hill)or even my own driveway. Which is fairly flat! I have fixed theissue going in and out of my driveway by removing the sway bars but I can’t dothat every time I think I might be dragging them. It appears that thereis some wear on the bottom of the motor mechanism housing which if I keepdragging I am sure I will damage the actual motor.<o></o>
2)LP detector is constant red and not working. <o></o>
3)Heater isn’t working and broke down on Tuesday. It tries to fire butdoesn’t and then shuts itself down. The nights up here are pretty cool. Fornow, I am using my back up electric space heater during the night. <o></o>
4)Can we check the Tow set up? I keep getting swayed around. Ihave tried moving the L bracket up to make the connection “tighter” to my truckbut it still sways. On my trip home I am going to move more weight to thetongue to see if this helps out. I’ll keep you posted.<o></o>
5)Last night (Wednesday night) the electric portion of the water heaterbroke. My wife figured this out when she tried to wash dishes. The wall switchis no longer lit up. I didn’t pull any breakers because everything else seemsin the camper is not affected. I am now using the propane portion of thewater heater which is working.<o></o>
6)The tv’s in the boy’s room and the outside Kitchen are snowy when hookedup to cable. I have tried switching the tv’s to make sure it wasn’t them.I also played dvd’s and the reception is fine. I did make a modificationso that I could receive a satellite signal. I added a diplexer and wentaround the amplified booster. All the connections are tight so I don’tthink it is that, besides the TV in the main room is fine. <o></o>
The cell reception up here is non-existent at the campgroundso you won’t be able to talk me through it. If you have any suggestionsthat would be great. I’ll follow up with a call as soon as I get some cellservice.<o></o>
Thank you and talk to you soon.

After this trip I brought the trailer in for service that was scheduled on 7/26 and we were to pick it up on 8/1 so that we could go on our next adventure. Well, it wasn't ready for 8/1 so I delayed picking her up until 8/3 and we went to another campground again in Northern, NH. Prior to this trip it was discovered that the axles were bad but the damage was already done so I was told to go ahead and take the trailer camping. The axles should have been fixed by now but the parts hadn't come in.

So, no we go up to Mountain Lake campground in NH. Lucky we made it up there because the rear axle was now toast. The tires were down to the chords and the tires were now pigeon toed. NOW, I know that Heartland is not Good Sam or AAA but I asked if they would help me with the tires on a Friday. I got a response on Friday afternoon say that they would send someone (contracted I assume) to assist with the unit. I was more than greatful and appreciative. WOW, the company was really staying behind there product! Well, they never showed up...A few emails and voice mails later and they Never sent anyone. I had to do it all myself on my NEW travel trailer. I had to replace two tires! They have said that they will reimburse me for the tire on 8/8/12. As of the writing of this post I have yet to recieve a reimbursement. My sales man also said that I would be recieving a "care package" from Heartland. This was in July, and so far I have received no care package.

I brought my trailer in for service on 8/8/12. I finally picked it up on 9/6. Almost everything was fixed. I still don't have the motor housing for the rear stabilizer jack and I am still getting shock at times which is probably a bad ground. We also had to cancel our Labor Day Weekend trip. If this was a used trailer I would understand that there are problems. This think was brand spanking new. Oh yeah not mentioned yet was the Front end cap was delaminated and had to be replaced as was the outside kitchen door!

I emailed the VP of Sales for Heartland and did receive a response but NO FOLLOW UP. I find this unacceptable. My phone number has been attached to every email to Heartland! I always try to be a "cheerleader" for Heartland and I want to be..At this point I just can't do it. I am also not hear to bash Heartland.. That is not what I am about. I just want a reliable camper for the money that we spent on this camper! Let's see how our family trip goes in October! Do you guys have any thoughts?

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond!

Nathan

 

[Sumo]

6)The tv’s in the boy’s room and the outside Kitchen are snowy when hookedup to cable. I have tried switching the tv’s to make sure it wasn’t them.I also played dvd’s and the reception is fine. I did make a modificationso that I could receive a satellite signal. I added a diplexer and wentaround the amplified booster. All the connections are tight so I don’tthink it is that, besides the TV in the main room is fine. <o></o>
Nathan

When I hook up to cable I now use the satellite connection, everything comes in fab.

 

[Bob&Patty]

I have a question. You seem to have a lot of issues that your dealer did not catch before you took delivery. Did you do a extensive PDI when you took delivery? That is to say, was water and electric hooked up? Did you try all the sinks,toilet and every switch, knob, and TV's? You are correct that HL has some blame in this...BUT...why didn't your dealer check all these things before you took it. My suggestion would be, be calm and contact HL service by phone. Go over your issues with them. Next, make sure your dealer is not trying to pull the wool over your eyes and telling its all HL's fault that the parts took so long. You can do this by calling HL with your VIN# the next time your dealer states it's HL's fault. HL service can verify to you when the parts were ordered and shipped. Sorry to say that alot of dealers lie about when parts are ordered and shipping times. As to the issue of your coach being too low (ground clearance), I suspect that you did not check this before you bought it. Some trailers are made to "off road" some are not. You could modify the drain line or some have raised the axles by 2". Good luck and I hope your issues get resolved.

 

[Nathan]

When I hook up to cable I now use the satellite connection, everything comes in fab.

It ended up being a bad splitter in the master bedroom. I haven't hooked it up yet but it is supposed to be fixed.

 

[Nathan]

I have a question. You seem to have a lot of issues that your dealer did not catch before you took delivery. Did you do a extensive PDI when you took delivery? That is to say, was water and electric hooked up? Did you try all the sinks,toilet and every switch, knob, and TV's? You are correct that HL has some blame in this...BUT...why didn't your dealer check all these things before you took it. My suggestion would be, be calm and contact HL service by phone. Go over your issues with them. Next, make sure your dealer is not trying to pull the wool over your eyes and telling its all HL's fault that the parts took so long. You can do this by calling HL with your VIN# the next time your dealer states it's HL's fault. HL service can verify to you when the parts were ordered and shipped. Sorry to say that alot of dealers lie about when parts are ordered and shipping times. As to the issue of your coach being too low (ground clearance), I suspect that you did not check this before you bought it. Some trailers are made to "off road" some are not. You could modify the drain line or some have raised the axles by 2". Good luck and I hope your issues get resolved.

I did do a PDI but I didn't take covers off to check plumbing and I didn't ask them to hook up the water. The ground clearance issue was partly due to the sagging of the axles which is something that I would not have picked up on a PDI.. I just don't know enough mechanically to diagnose that. The gray tank number 2 took a beating because of the sag. the dealer did raise the drain line by modifying the termination point.
As regards to "off road", we have only camped in camp grounds. I think that the trailer's should be built well enough for this simple task I had only turned on the tv's to make sure they worked which they did. I didn't have them hook up a cable line to check the actual reception. The cabinets seem to be a known problem from HL which makes me think that they either don't care about fixing the issue or are just putting it on the dealer. When I went to go pick up my trailer I saw a 2013 32 BUDS have the same hinge problem and the unit wasn't even sold yet. So these type of cabinets are definately an issue. HL needs to address it! Anyway, the problem with getting the parts from heartland is that you make a claim to HL customer service. Then they in turn get the company with the "defective" part to ship the item out by the cheapest means possible. My issue is not with the shipping, it is the delay that is created by HL taking the extra step to wait for the part to be shipped from the company which made the part. It would be a lot more streamlined if HL would ship directly from their factory and then have the company who made the component ship the replacement component to them instead of passing the buck. When I got my replacement kitchen door it came in broken so that had to get another replacement kitchen door. Finally, the reason I was told that the Axle's didn't come in when they were supposed to was due to Lippert having to manufacture them. I am fairly certain that HL has dozens if not hundreds of axles at their Elkhart factory. I understand that this is "industry standard" but the best companies will do "better" than industry standard. They will exceed that standard.

 

[Bob&Patty]

You are correct again. But in fairness, Lippert handles most of the frame and suspension parts when ordered. As far as the cabinets, I have read may things on the hinge screws pulling loose. HL did come up with a fix about a year ago. As most everything in your coach other than the fiberglass box all the stuff goes into it was manufactured by some other company and installed at the plant. I wonder WHO told you that HL ships everything a cheap as possible.....your dealer? I know that is not true, I know of many people with problems and HL has shipped everything over night. Do you think HL would try to save $10 and lose a customer. I think not. I have personally talked to the owner and the service reps and they will not stop at anything to make you happy. Been there done that with our coach even when it was out of warranty...they fixed it. I wonder what the build date of your coach is? Was it a dealer stock item or did you order it? I need to make this clear. You have every right to be upset. Just get HL service involved with a phone call on any further issues....better yet call HL before to take your coach in for repairs. Good luck again.

 

[Silverado23]

As far as Heartland having to keep and ship spare replacement parts for every component ever used just to have them available for quick shipping is a great way to run a company out of business. Having a component manufacterer ship to heartland to ship out is also fairly expensive on a part by part basis and only adds more delays to the shipping process. Having a company drop ship could be much faster since even the manufacterer may be getting their parts made by yet another supplier.

 

[danemayer]

My issue is not with the shipping, it is the delay that is created by HL taking the extra step to wait for the part to be shipped from the company which made the part.

My experience is that the dealers order parts directly from whoever fulfills warranty. They don't order refrigerator parts from Heartland - they're ordered from Dometic. The warranty claim goes to Dometic, not to Heartland. The reimbursement comes from Dometic, not from Heartland.

Cabinet doors and related parts do come from Heartland - but on cabinet doors, it's completely impractical to stock replacements - there are just too many sizes, shapes, finishes, hinge mounts. Our rig alone probably has a dozen different size/shape cabinet doors. Different floorplans have different sized cabinets. I wouldn't be surprised if there were several hundreds of different cabinet doors across the Heartland product line. When a replacement door is needed, it's made to order and that does take extra time. By the way, you don't have to leave your rig at the dealer waiting for a cabinet door to show up.

Some vendors will expedite shipments at their expense if it's a crisis. If it's not, they may still expedite, but at your expense. Dometic expedited an icemaker part for us 2 weeks ago - cost me $25 for next day air - but it was worth it to me to not have to wait 2 weeks for the part to show up.

 

[Nathan]

I sincerely appreciate the responses. I know that my number of issues that have gone wrong with my rig is not the "norm". @Danemayer, I guess your right, that it doesn't make sense to stock every part for the rig. I was really thinking about the axles and thought it would have been easier and quicker to have HL ship the items but it does NOW make more sense to have Lippert drop ship the items. But, what about my last point. The lack of communication from HL. I mean they left me hanging at a campground when they promised that they would help me. I can send you the emails. I am not making this stuff up. Second, why no follow up. If this is out of the "norm" why hasn't the people that have been dealing with me ever follow up to see how I made out? I manage people for a living as a supervisor in my job. Actually, manage is the wrong term. I lead people! As a leader if I say I am going to follow up I do. I put it in my calendar and do it. Follow up holds me accountable. It also holds those who I lead accountable. It would seem to me that HL would want to keep me as a customer (as they would want to keep anyone). Colin Powell, one of the great leaders of our time writes “The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership.”

This metaphor can be used for any business model. If I don't think that HL cares that is my perception. It would lead me to go somewhere else. Just one email, or one call would have saved alot of anguish on my part. A simple, I know this unit has not been perfect Mr. "...". We are doing our best to fix your problem. I know you had to purchase your own tire and we said that we were going to reimburse you. The check is in the mail. I'm sorry about these issues and will work hard to remedy your problem. This would make me a HL customer for life. instead, I am wondering if HL really does care. I know this sounds like a rant. I guess it partly is.. One important question has been answered which was about the shipping issue!

I do value the opinions of the site, the moderators, etc... I appreciate that HL lets us discuss both the good and bad about their products. In the end I do think it will make their product better. However, the lack of communication is what is so angering. Communication breakdown's is the most important factor of both interpersonal work relationships as well as with their customers. In the end. I just wish this whole situation was handled differently.

Nathan

 

[danemayer]

The lack of communication from HL. I mean they left me hanging at a campground when they promised that they would help me.

Nathan, I agree with you that this should not have happened. They dropped the ball and I hope that your bringing this up causes Heartland to take a look at just how they handle follow-up on commitments. Maybe it's time for software enhancements in the customer service system so that follow-ups are logged and tracked to completion.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Dan and Nathan, I wonder if JB has seen this thread. Nathan, I know that the people at the factory do read the forum...but not everyday. Nathan...one other thing. HL does not own or run this forum in anyway. The "ASK THE FACTORY" threads will alway get an answer from a brand manager....but it make take a day or two. HL does not have someone employed just to read threads. I will say this again. Anytime you have an issue call HL service and get them involved at the start.

 

[GaryWT]

Hi Nathan, first thing I have to say is why Friendly Beaver, I hate that place LOL.

I have a 2011 30 QOK. We love the unit and I live at the outside kitchen but there are some issues. It is low and I did not think of that until I was trying to get it in the driveway and it bottomed out. The bumper, rear jacks and tank 2 drain. Lost the motor on the back pulling out for our first trip. we have to drive on boards to get in and out and had to take the spare tire off as well. We have bottomed out at a few places but not too bad but I cannot stop for gas etc at most places as I cannot get over the sidewalk. After our first trip I took it back to Flagg RV for a new motor, fix all the cable as most was snowy, fix a couple leaks, re-attach the WH door, replace the emergency breakaway cable, fix the door to the outside kitchen. They had it for about 3 weeks as they were waiting for approval to fix the motor.

In addition, we have sway problems, have not looked at the axles but had to adjust the hitch as the dealer set up was not good, in addition, I have to keep all weight inside up front, the more I put up front the better we are. Took it to PA and back theis summer and all was fine.

I have not had it back to the shop since that first trip, I have had to do a few things myself like take the outside shower off to tighten hoses and things like that that but so far so good since then. Hopefully you will be set to go.

I can say the next one will have 3 steps instead of 2 so we have more height, just need to be sure we can reach the outside kitchen because that is a must.

 

[jbeletti]

Dan and Nathan, I wonder if JB has seen this thread.

Yep - JB (me) has sent this one on to the NT plant to make sure they are aware of it. There's always room for improvement and when I see significant evidence of that, I always pass it along to the appropriate parties at Heartland.

HL does not own or run this forum in anyway.

Bob - this changed back in 2008. As a condition of my employment, I transferred the forum software license to Heartland. What does this mean for retail customers? Really - nothing. I continue to run the forum with a volunteer team of moderators. Heartland has the ability to hit the STOP switch if you will. That has never happened and likely never will. So long as forum users know that this forum is not their personal soap box and use it to seek assistance and to share - it's all good.

 

[ZNK]

The biggest take home message is to not worry. Heartland will take care of you. There are many who have (including me) had to have our rig serviced in the one year warranty period. I have also read of people who were taken care of outside of that period depending on the situation. Don't Fret it may be a little inconvenient but Heartland will make it right. That is ONE of the great things about this brand. They have excellent customer service.

 

[krhyde]

I don't own a North Trail but I do own a Heartland. After reading Nathan's post, I find it refreshing that he can come on this forum and outline his many problems with his new RV without being scolded or ridiculed about it. He has obviously had too many problems, but at least he gets help and encouragement from this forum. I had a few minor things with my new Landmark, and this forum was very helpful. Good Luck Nathan getting everything fixed to your satisfaction.

 

[krhyde]

Another thing, Nathan, I think I just figured out why you're having problems with towing; you're driving a Chevrolet. LOL Sorry about that but I couldn't resist. I used to be a "Chevy" man. Love my Ford.

 

[dave10a]

Nothing worse than getting started in the wrong direction.

 

[Lawnlord]

I have problems with my 321BHDD north country lakeside 2011 and I called customer service 2weeks after the 1year warranty and they told me oh well and couldn't help me so I'm going to rely on this forum for help

 

[ZNK]

What kind of issues are you running in to?

 

[Nathan]

Hi Nathan, first thing I have to say is why Friendly Beaver, I hate that place LOL.

I have a 2011 30 QOK. We love the unit and I live at the outside kitchen but there are some issues. It is low and I did not think of that until I was trying to get it in the driveway and it bottomed out. The bumper, rear jacks and tank 2 drain. Lost the motor on the back pulling out for our first trip. we have to drive on boards to get in and out and had to take the spare tire off as well. We have bottomed out at a few places but not too bad but I cannot stop for gas etc at most places as I cannot get over the sidewalk. After our first trip I took it back to Flagg RV for a new motor, fix all the cable as most was snowy, fix a couple leaks, re-attach the WH door, replace the emergency breakaway cable, fix the door to the outside kitchen. They had it for about 3 weeks as they were waiting for approval to fix the motor.

In addition, we have sway problems, have not looked at the axles but had to adjust the hitch as the dealer set up was not good, in addition, I have to keep all weight inside up front, the more I put up front the better we are. Took it to PA and back theis summer and all was fine.

I have not had it back to the shop since that first trip, I have had to do a few things myself like take the outside shower off to tighten hoses and things like that that but so far so good since then. Hopefully you will be set to go.

I can say the next one will have 3 steps instead of 2 so we have more height, just need to be sure we can reach the outside kitchen because that is a must.

The Friendly Beaver is where a bunch of my friends have been going for years. We joined them this year. It was a great time and the camp ground was pretty good. The last part we are waiting for to come in is the motor housing on the rear stabilizer jack so it will be protected from the elements. You should definately check the tread wear on the inside of your camper's tires. If it is well worn it is a good indicator that the axles may be bad. I had done similair things to you by trying to adjust the hitch and put more weight on the tongue. When I picked up my trailer at Flagg they had another NT in there for the same axle issue that I had. So, it seems like it may possibly be a common issue. In fact, when they replaced my axles they used the bigger axles which handle more weight. I also had to tighten my outside kitchen hose fittings.. We also love the outside kitchen.. It is fantastic. We will be towing it to D.C. late next month. I am trying to make sure that everything will be good for that trip. I hope to keep this camper for a LONG time so I want to ensure that all of the major issues are taken care of. I also did purchase the extended warranty. I was on the fence about it but I am glad I did it now.

Jbeletti, thank you for sending it to the plant.