Miltp920
Well-known member
I just installed my new TireTraker tire monitoring system so I can tell if my towmax tires are safe while towing to Discount Tire to buy Michelins 
Options for TowMax oem tire replacement...
- Thread starter Cjackg
- Start date
Miltp920
Well-known member
Thanks, I understand more now. Newbie to towing big rigs.
Heathcote4
Active Member
Please allow me a rookie question. When one gets new tires I am assuming the rims are taken to a tire store to have the old tires replaced.
Is the rig jacked up without all the wheels? Are they taken in half at a time?
Will the landing gear and rear jacks support the weight of the entire unit?
Thank you and please forgive the ignorance.
Josh
Is the rig jacked up without all the wheels? Are they taken in half at a time?
Will the landing gear and rear jacks support the weight of the entire unit?
Thank you and please forgive the ignorance.
Josh
Heathcote4
Active Member
That's what I would expect but I read statements of the wheels in the back of a truck and wondered if they were all getting changed off of the camper.
Thanks for the clarification.
J
Thanks for the clarification.
J
Josh I was the poster that said his new wheels and tires were all in the back of a pickup truck when I picked them up. I took the new wheels and tires back home and swapped them myself one wheel at a time back at home using a hydraulic jack under the spring to axle mounting plate and then sold my old wheels and tires locally online. While some hydraulic leveling systems will lift the entire trailer off the ground most manufacturers don't recommend that it be done.
Miltp920
Well-known member
It seems to upgrade the tires we pretty much have to upgrade the rims too. Cyclone has 16x6 rims. The GY G614 requires a 16x6.5 rim. In order to get the load rating up to 3415 with the Michelin LTX MS2 requires a 16x7 rim for the 265/75R16. The towmax was 3420 each tire on the 16x6 rim. I wonder how China gets that rating and Michelin and GY can not on the same rim. This will be a major investment. I am disappointed. I never even thought about tires on the Cyclone when buying. I did read some threads about GY G614 blowouts on other sites like this for SOB, but the tires had 3 to 5 years and 15,000 to 20,000 miles on them.17.5 inch rims seemed to be their answer. I did not think I would have these issues staying with the "smaller" 2 axle 5er. my 16x6 rims are rated for 3750 at 110psi, but I cant find a replacement tire for 16x6 with a 3420 load rating "equal" to the towmax. we are probably supposed to stay under the max rating of 3750 onthe rim anyway by 10- 15%...
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
Josh, we've found that Discount Tire is a good place for tires. They can do the change, one side at a time. The problem becomes the jacking process. They will try to use their floor jacks on the axles, which is not recommended by the axle manufacturers. I instead insisted on using our Ground Control to lift the side they needed to work on. (Note, always have the truck hitched to the trailer!) However, we had a slight malfunction on the second side, and so we opted to jack it the "old fashioned way" with our blocking and our two 12 ton bottle jacks on the frame, on either side of the tires. Tony and I have done this before, so we took over and jacked it ourselves. We stood and watched everything as they changed the tires. They had 2 guys working to remove, replace and balance the tires at the same time. Only bad part, this was August, and I think it was close to 100* out there! Also remember to insist on full metal valve stems (about $2 more per tire), if you want to have the option of adding a TPMS system in the future.
caissiel
Senior Member
You don't have to be so technical. LT tires will outlast any ST tire for the same application.
LT tires will possibly ride harsher and drag a bit more because they have more rubber on the threads as they have traction threads. Even street style tires. So going with wider profile will just cause clearance and dragging problems.
Stick with 235 and if you think the ST are better at 3400 lbs rating. Its a joke as no way I would drive down the road with more then 3000 lbs with those narrow and light tires with only 80 lbs of air.
Though around here I have sean 235 LTs loaded to bears on the rear of duellies and they survive well.
Sent from my LG-LS720 using Tapatalk
LT tires will possibly ride harsher and drag a bit more because they have more rubber on the threads as they have traction threads. Even street style tires. So going with wider profile will just cause clearance and dragging problems.
Stick with 235 and if you think the ST are better at 3400 lbs rating. Its a joke as no way I would drive down the road with more then 3000 lbs with those narrow and light tires with only 80 lbs of air.
Though around here I have sean 235 LTs loaded to bears on the rear of duellies and they survive well.
Sent from my LG-LS720 using Tapatalk
porthole
Retired
If your wheels are rated at 110 psi go with the GY 614's
If your wheels are rated at 80 psi, you would need new wheels anyway, go with the 17.5" G114's.
But first I would try your dealer and see if you can upgrade to the GY's right from the factory, it is an option now. If yo get nowhere with the dealer, try the Cyclone sales rep.
Don't stop at the first no.
tireman9
Well-known member
You are confusing ST type with LT type tires. Different types have different limits. ST is limited to 65 mph. The LT have higher speed rating. That is the major trade-off.
tireman9
Well-known member
16,000 -20% pin = 12800
1280/4 = 3200
So as long as your tires are rated for 3201 the RV MFG meets the regulations (but certainly not the intent of the law which is to not overload tires)
RV MFG know the RV is not 50/50 axle to axle and they know the side to side is not 50/50 so they know that one or more tire is overloaded.
Cjackg
Well-known member
GoodBye TowMax!
When we took delivery of our new 2015 Cyclone 3110 last week, we decided to go ahead and replace the oem tires & wheels without delay. After a call to Trailer Tires and Wheels in Edon, Ohio to work out the details, we headed north to give the 3110 a good shakeout and pickup the tires. We were able to park overnight at the TTW facility and the next morning Scott had our tires & wheels swapped out in short order.
The new 17.5s are Continental HTL2 Eco-Plus 215/75R17.5 and are mounted on some good looking HiSpec 07 aluminum wheels with black inlays. The 17.5s are Load Range J, 4805 lbs 75mph rated and are very serious looking tires.
The trip from Ohio home to Tennessee was done with a lot more peace of mind and the new tires even seemed to ride smoother on the bumps than the originals even though they run 120psi. Here's a few pics...
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29885&d=1400634816
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29884&d=1400634757
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29887&d=1400636010
When we took delivery of our new 2015 Cyclone 3110 last week, we decided to go ahead and replace the oem tires & wheels without delay. After a call to Trailer Tires and Wheels in Edon, Ohio to work out the details, we headed north to give the 3110 a good shakeout and pickup the tires. We were able to park overnight at the TTW facility and the next morning Scott had our tires & wheels swapped out in short order.
The new 17.5s are Continental HTL2 Eco-Plus 215/75R17.5 and are mounted on some good looking HiSpec 07 aluminum wheels with black inlays. The 17.5s are Load Range J, 4805 lbs 75mph rated and are very serious looking tires.
The trip from Ohio home to Tennessee was done with a lot more peace of mind and the new tires even seemed to ride smoother on the bumps than the originals even though they run 120psi. Here's a few pics...
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29885&d=1400634816
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29884&d=1400634757
//heartlandowners.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29887&d=1400636010
porthole
Retired
Scott is a good guy and his service is excellent.
I run 110 in my 17.5's most of the time, and if loaded heavy I will bump to 115
You can run the psi you are comfortable with based on weight. At least with the Goodyear version. Goodyear has a load/inflation chart on their website.
I run 110 in my 17.5's most of the time, and if loaded heavy I will bump to 115
You can run the psi you are comfortable with based on weight. At least with the Goodyear version. Goodyear has a load/inflation chart on their website.
I am sorry if this question has been asked many times, but there are so many posting around TowMax tires and what to replace them with...I am thoroughly confused. I have a new Gateway 3650BH with a GVWR of 15,500lbs and Dry 13,000lbs, so if I assume that 20% of the weight is going on the truck, then I need to have four tires that can safely carry 12,400lbs or 3,100lbs/tire. I see that most of the non-Goodyear G614 LT tires (i.e. Michelin XPS) have a load capacity of approximately 3040lbs/tire. Would 3,040lbs be cutting it too close and maxing out the tires and leaving no buffer? There are only about 2,000 miles on my trailer and tires and one of the rear-tires already has some deformation on the inside wall and I so I need to get new tires before I leave for Yellowstone a week from Sunday.
I should say, that I don't normally travel with full tanks or a lot of additional weight other than closes, food, etc. I did have the residential frig and Onan 5500 generator added to the unit, so my dry weight is probably closer to 14,000lbs.
Thanks for all your help!
Ken
I should say, that I don't normally travel with full tanks or a lot of additional weight other than closes, food, etc. I did have the residential frig and Onan 5500 generator added to the unit, so my dry weight is probably closer to 14,000lbs.
Thanks for all your help!
Ken
Miltp920
Well-known member
Most posts in this thread will tell you to upgrade to 14 ply G rated tire. My buddy put an off brand 14 ply on his Big Country after 2 blowouts. I put 12 ply F rated on my Cyclone 15,500 lb rig. My tires are Carlisle RH ST tires rated 3960 lbs each ( more than my 2 7000 lb axles) ( more than the 3520 lb blowmax) The goldstar tire in this thread is GY G614, but they cost double other tires. ($375 each just tire). I recommend Sailun G rated 14 ply, 1/2 the G614 price. I could not get them, so I went Carlisle. You should search this site for towmax, and read all the threads. You get to decide how much to spend and your availability. There are tire and wheel deals out there where they will ship tire rim combos right to your house, again, new rims extra cost. I just met an engineer in this RV Resort, and he blew a GY marathon on a 16,000 lb 5er, he bought 14 ply G rated Carlisles. Heartland should be assamed for putting 10 ply E rated tires on these heavy rigs. They just are not enough tire. As the engineer stated, not enough margin for the what ifs.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I will save you all the trouble, The 16 inch rim is the limitation. The TowMax tire is an abysmal failure in this application, and Internet search will tell you that. Yes its all anecdotal evidence and it does not prove anything. No there is no empirical evidence showing that the TowMax is a poor tire for the application. But I want to give you the benefit of my studies and observations, so here it goes.
Add my name to the list of TowMax failures at 1600 miles, and $2000 dollars in damage to a brand new rig that has been in the shop for 30 days waiting on repairs. Glad that trip was close to home, because I did not have a spare on hand. I did have a brochure from TowMax that said they would deliver two TowMax tires to me. I would just like to know how they intended to do that on a Friday afternoon since there are no TowMax tires in my area, but they can be ordered. By the way when the tire blew, I'm sure it ruined the companion tire on that side, it made over 600 revelations carrying all the weight on that side, before I could get pulled over. Read the stories about all the people that have lost more than one tire on a trip, this is because the rig is over loaded and/or they had a premature tire failure and killed the other tire in the process, which blew later on.
There is no tire manufacturer named TowMax. TowMax is a private label tire with many manufacturers. The tire serial number will tell you who the manufacturer is. If you file a claim with TowMax they will join you in the claim against the manufacturer. Just call them, they are friendly and so not seem reluctant to help. You will be asked to ship the tire to the manufacturer. In my case it was Dynamic Tire in Canada. I’m still waiting for a response.
I said I wanted to tell you everything, and I’m going to. Even though I would just like to shade this to make a good case against ST tires. I’m going to add this, and it makes sense. As RVrs we forget the last trip where the damage may have occurred. In our minds we think that the tires were good, new and inflated properly. We forget that we picked the trailer up from the dealer when it was new and the tires were 10 psi low. The thought never crossed our minds that the delivery run from the factory, probably over a 1000 miles was done on tires inflated to only 70 psi and the 65 mile per hour speed rating was probably violated for most of that trip to the tune of about 10 mph or more. We forget about the tight turn we got into where we were turned so tight that the tires nearly rolled off the rims/wheels. We forget that we climbed that curb or hit that unavoidable pothole. We go straight to the tire and blame it. WE want to lay blame without mercy.
Having said that lets get back to the issue at hand, the TowMax tire has a load rating of 3450. 3450 X 4 = 13,800 MAX. Does this sound like your rigs weight? To be fair, you have to measure the weight of your rig to know for sure, at least measure both sides if you can’t measure each wheel. Since you cant measure it now, take the pin weight, and subtract it from the dry weight of the rig. IF you are comfortable to having your rig that close to the max capability of your tires then STOP read no further.
While your 16 inch ST tires are probably rated at 3450 LBS at 80 psi, your wheels are probably rated at 3750 and up to 110 psi pressure. This is the rating of the Goodyear G614. There is no other 16 in tire on the market rated at 3750 and 110 psi (at least I can not find one). It is a “LT” and is specified for RV trailer applications by Goodyear. Here is the link
http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire-selector.aspx
If you go this route, you need not buy rims but you still are running up close to the max load of your tires in the tandem axel fifth wheel coaches above 30 feet. Your speed rating will be 75 MPH. Shop around, this is about $1200-$1600 bucks worth of piece of mind.
I had the money so I over killed the problem to make sure that the ugly head of this snake was completely severed. I changed to 17.5 inch Mod 3 series HiSpec wheels and the Goodyear G114 trailer tire. The load rating is incredible and the speed rating is 75 MPH. Michelin tires has a competing tire for half the money but is rated at 63 MPH. Dig deep for the Goodyear, the Michelin is a good buy if you can live with the speed rating. But once you hit 17.5 in rims you have a bunch of tires to choose from that will provide way more than what your ST tire can provide.
If you are just trailering your fiver to a nearby RV park and you don’t intend to really travel with it, then the G614 is your best tire, no matter what though, chunk the china bombs in the trash ASAP, or sell them to your landscaper.
Me? I intend to travel with my Big Country and I don’t want any tire problems on the Alcan or in Arizona, Texas or the Badlands or any where else I intend to travel, I want to be able to find a tire incase I loose one. From the looks of my G114s, I don’t think that I will be suffering from any rock bruises or any other silly offenses against my tires that will cause me undue heartache, like the heartache that could come from getting hit by a car on the highway while I goof around changing a tire on my rig. Or having a heart attack while trying to hustle it up. It’s cheap insurance. And look at it this way. You are paying for the option that you should have bought when you bought the rig in the first place. Don’t attempt to use your rig with these cheap ST tires on it. It is not a case of “IF” it is a case of “When.” You will pay now or pay later.
The damage to my rig at 1600 miles, and it’s second outing, was $2000 bucks. And a weekend worrying about if another china bomb was going to go off by the time I got home, I also got to stare at that damage all weekend wondering how much that was going to cost? Fortunately, my insurance company, Liberty M. stepped up to the plate and covered it all, except the tire. No deductable. Do not hesitate to file a claim on extensive damage to your rig cause by a blown tire. If it is declined, you need to do a little Internet research, someone is lying to you. Greive the decline. Once that tire leaves your wheel it becomes a collision and your collision insurance covers it. Don’t be bashful. But remember the damage has to be un-avoidable. Meaning you cant drive around on a flopping tire that is damaging your vehicle and expect your insurance to cover it. But damage that occurred while looking for a safe place to pull over, is well within reason. They should pay, if they don’t then perhaps L.M. is where you want to do business.
In summery, it is my opinion you are running on borrowed time if you are running on the China bombs. Personally I do not like any of the ST tires for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel operations. They may be good for your bass boat, or utility trailer, but they are maxed on your 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel. Sell them to your landscaper, buy G614, or buy new rims and buy G114. If you buy new rims stash your old ones in the attic so you can keep the G114 for your new rig if you sell it. File claims for damages caused by blowouts with both insurance and tire manufacturer. This is not crooked, cause you are not going to collect from the tire manufacturer anyway, but you might get some kind of check that would help offset your new tires and rims. IF you do happen to get a settlement from the tire company you might want to notify your insurance company and tell them you want to sign the check over to them, just to see what they say. After all fair is fair. But if you get a little $500 check cause you strong-armed them into giving it to you, I doubt that your insurance company would think you dishonest over it. So there is my opinion. Good luck and I hope I helped you make up your mind.
Add my name to the list of TowMax failures at 1600 miles, and $2000 dollars in damage to a brand new rig that has been in the shop for 30 days waiting on repairs. Glad that trip was close to home, because I did not have a spare on hand. I did have a brochure from TowMax that said they would deliver two TowMax tires to me. I would just like to know how they intended to do that on a Friday afternoon since there are no TowMax tires in my area, but they can be ordered. By the way when the tire blew, I'm sure it ruined the companion tire on that side, it made over 600 revelations carrying all the weight on that side, before I could get pulled over. Read the stories about all the people that have lost more than one tire on a trip, this is because the rig is over loaded and/or they had a premature tire failure and killed the other tire in the process, which blew later on.
There is no tire manufacturer named TowMax. TowMax is a private label tire with many manufacturers. The tire serial number will tell you who the manufacturer is. If you file a claim with TowMax they will join you in the claim against the manufacturer. Just call them, they are friendly and so not seem reluctant to help. You will be asked to ship the tire to the manufacturer. In my case it was Dynamic Tire in Canada. I’m still waiting for a response.
I said I wanted to tell you everything, and I’m going to. Even though I would just like to shade this to make a good case against ST tires. I’m going to add this, and it makes sense. As RVrs we forget the last trip where the damage may have occurred. In our minds we think that the tires were good, new and inflated properly. We forget that we picked the trailer up from the dealer when it was new and the tires were 10 psi low. The thought never crossed our minds that the delivery run from the factory, probably over a 1000 miles was done on tires inflated to only 70 psi and the 65 mile per hour speed rating was probably violated for most of that trip to the tune of about 10 mph or more. We forget about the tight turn we got into where we were turned so tight that the tires nearly rolled off the rims/wheels. We forget that we climbed that curb or hit that unavoidable pothole. We go straight to the tire and blame it. WE want to lay blame without mercy.
Having said that lets get back to the issue at hand, the TowMax tire has a load rating of 3450. 3450 X 4 = 13,800 MAX. Does this sound like your rigs weight? To be fair, you have to measure the weight of your rig to know for sure, at least measure both sides if you can’t measure each wheel. Since you cant measure it now, take the pin weight, and subtract it from the dry weight of the rig. IF you are comfortable to having your rig that close to the max capability of your tires then STOP read no further.
While your 16 inch ST tires are probably rated at 3450 LBS at 80 psi, your wheels are probably rated at 3750 and up to 110 psi pressure. This is the rating of the Goodyear G614. There is no other 16 in tire on the market rated at 3750 and 110 psi (at least I can not find one). It is a “LT” and is specified for RV trailer applications by Goodyear. Here is the link
http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire-selector.aspx
If you go this route, you need not buy rims but you still are running up close to the max load of your tires in the tandem axel fifth wheel coaches above 30 feet. Your speed rating will be 75 MPH. Shop around, this is about $1200-$1600 bucks worth of piece of mind.
I had the money so I over killed the problem to make sure that the ugly head of this snake was completely severed. I changed to 17.5 inch Mod 3 series HiSpec wheels and the Goodyear G114 trailer tire. The load rating is incredible and the speed rating is 75 MPH. Michelin tires has a competing tire for half the money but is rated at 63 MPH. Dig deep for the Goodyear, the Michelin is a good buy if you can live with the speed rating. But once you hit 17.5 in rims you have a bunch of tires to choose from that will provide way more than what your ST tire can provide.
If you are just trailering your fiver to a nearby RV park and you don’t intend to really travel with it, then the G614 is your best tire, no matter what though, chunk the china bombs in the trash ASAP, or sell them to your landscaper.
Me? I intend to travel with my Big Country and I don’t want any tire problems on the Alcan or in Arizona, Texas or the Badlands or any where else I intend to travel, I want to be able to find a tire incase I loose one. From the looks of my G114s, I don’t think that I will be suffering from any rock bruises or any other silly offenses against my tires that will cause me undue heartache, like the heartache that could come from getting hit by a car on the highway while I goof around changing a tire on my rig. Or having a heart attack while trying to hustle it up. It’s cheap insurance. And look at it this way. You are paying for the option that you should have bought when you bought the rig in the first place. Don’t attempt to use your rig with these cheap ST tires on it. It is not a case of “IF” it is a case of “When.” You will pay now or pay later.
The damage to my rig at 1600 miles, and it’s second outing, was $2000 bucks. And a weekend worrying about if another china bomb was going to go off by the time I got home, I also got to stare at that damage all weekend wondering how much that was going to cost? Fortunately, my insurance company, Liberty M. stepped up to the plate and covered it all, except the tire. No deductable. Do not hesitate to file a claim on extensive damage to your rig cause by a blown tire. If it is declined, you need to do a little Internet research, someone is lying to you. Greive the decline. Once that tire leaves your wheel it becomes a collision and your collision insurance covers it. Don’t be bashful. But remember the damage has to be un-avoidable. Meaning you cant drive around on a flopping tire that is damaging your vehicle and expect your insurance to cover it. But damage that occurred while looking for a safe place to pull over, is well within reason. They should pay, if they don’t then perhaps L.M. is where you want to do business.
In summery, it is my opinion you are running on borrowed time if you are running on the China bombs. Personally I do not like any of the ST tires for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel operations. They may be good for your bass boat, or utility trailer, but they are maxed on your 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel. Sell them to your landscaper, buy G614, or buy new rims and buy G114. If you buy new rims stash your old ones in the attic so you can keep the G114 for your new rig if you sell it. File claims for damages caused by blowouts with both insurance and tire manufacturer. This is not crooked, cause you are not going to collect from the tire manufacturer anyway, but you might get some kind of check that would help offset your new tires and rims. IF you do happen to get a settlement from the tire company you might want to notify your insurance company and tell them you want to sign the check over to them, just to see what they say. After all fair is fair. But if you get a little $500 check cause you strong-armed them into giving it to you, I doubt that your insurance company would think you dishonest over it. So there is my opinion. Good luck and I hope I helped you make up your mind.
Before I invested in my 17.5 inch tires and wheels from Scott I ran Michelin XPS Ribs at 90-93% of rated capacity for several years all across the eastern part of the continent. Keep in mind that the 3040 lb limited is at 75mph and the higher the speed rating the lower the capacity rating.
Given that the junkie ST's are rated for approx 3600lbs at 62 or 65mph I would never trust them over about 75% of that rating in real life. The GY G614 is the best of the worst in the 16in ch size.
If you are not going to exceed the 14500lb GVW on your trailer the Michelin or Duravis comparable tire would give you reliable confident service at a lower cost than replacing your RIMS at this time.
Now that my GVWR of my new trailer is over 16K lb I'm glad I invested in the 17.5 solution. When we traded I simply wrote into the deal that my wheels and tires came with me onto the new Savannah.
Given that the junkie ST's are rated for approx 3600lbs at 62 or 65mph I would never trust them over about 75% of that rating in real life. The GY G614 is the best of the worst in the 16in ch size.
If you are not going to exceed the 14500lb GVW on your trailer the Michelin or Duravis comparable tire would give you reliable confident service at a lower cost than replacing your RIMS at this time.
Now that my GVWR of my new trailer is over 16K lb I'm glad I invested in the 17.5 solution. When we traded I simply wrote into the deal that my wheels and tires came with me onto the new Savannah.
