Poor Quality Work 7 Years Later

[mlburst1]

We’ve owned our Sundance since it was new.

Like most owners of any brand RV, we’ve had lots of issues due to shoddy workmanship over the years but the problems have always been repaired for a reasonable amount and on we go.

However, the latest problem is beyond comprehension - the butyl tape on both rear corner seams had twists in them near the top (three twists on the right side) when originally applied and the rear window butyl tape didn’t meet in the bottom left corner – six inch gap!

Despite my regular seam caulking, the water leaks were impossible to stop and I had no way of knowing they even existed until I noticed a small area of delamination on the exterior bottom of the rear wall.

The pictures below show the extent of the wood rot on the framework – thousands of dollars of repair work because of poor workmanship and no quality control.

I’m not singling out Heartland since the body shop claims that all rigs, regardless of cost, are built to the same poor standards. Sure glad the auto industry doesn’t build their vehicles the same way…

The body shop put it back together better than new – replaced the framing, applied butyl tape properly on the corners and around the window and caulked completely but who knows what other hidden problem will rear its’ ugly head next.

 

[cookie]

I know how much damage water can cause. I recently rebuilt my daughter's SOB. Yours actually looked pretty good compared to hers.
I spent about $500 for 2x2's, 2x3's, plywood, butyl tape, caulk and vinyl flooring and a whole lot of my time.
Labor is the major factor.

Peace
Dave

 

[kowAlski631]

Comparing the construction of an automobile to that of an RV trailer is comparing apples and oranges to my way of thinking. Automobiles have no laminated pieces or wood (except for hand made cars like Rolls, Bentleys, etc with costs as great or greater than a trailer). Just saying......

Martha

 

[Bohemian]

Comparing the construction of an automobile to that of an RV trailer is comparing apples and oranges to my way of thinking. Automobiles have no laminated pieces or wood (except for hand made cars like Rolls, Bentleys, etc with costs as great or greater than a trailer). Just saying......

Martha

Huh.

Yes, the comparis9n is valid on design, materials, manufwcturing techniques, quality control, etc.
Different doesn't make the comparison invalid. It just reflects the quality differences

In design, etc.

 

[TravelTiger]

Huh.

Yes, the comparis9n is valid on design, materials, manufwcturing techniques, quality control, etc.
Different doesn't make the comparison invalid. It just reflects the quality differences

In design, etc.

I don't think so, automobile manufacturers use machinery to make a lot of their product, on assembly lines cranking out thousands of cars a year. Nothing on the assembly line changes except once a year.

An RV manufacture process has a lot more systems to assemble by hand, by lots of people running around on a station at once. Materials/Design can change every 3-6 months, based on supplies and other factors. They don't build the same exact unit but maybe 3-5 times in a month, and they are building multiple floorplans for multiple brands on the same line. Not to mention, the pay is based on number of units completed, not a per-hour rate. The RV construction is more like a house than an automobile. They may only produce 6-10 units a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danemayer]

Cars - designed to very tight specs on on fit - designed for manufacture in large part by robotic equipment - models mass produced by the tens or hundreds of thousands. Designed to drive 15,000 - 20,000 miles (or more) per year.

RVs - designed to very loose specs on fit - designed for manufacture by hand - models produced by the dozen or maybe a hundreds. Very lightweight materials. Designed to be towed a few hundred to maybe a few thousand miles per year.

This isn't an apples and oranges comparison. More like apples compared to chocolate bars.

 

[Bones]

Cars - designed to very tight specs on on fit - designed for manufacture in large part by robotic equipment - models mass produced by the tens or hundreds of thousands. Designed to drive 15,000 - 20,000 miles (or more) per year.

RVs - designed to very loose specs on fit - designed for manufacture by hand - models produced by the dozen or maybe a hundreds. Very lightweight materials. Designed to be towed a few hundred to maybe a few thousand miles per year.

This isn't an apples and oranges comparison. More like apples compared to chocolate bars.

I like chocolate bars.

 

[wiredog]

I think the ops comment comparing cars and rv's was meant in terms of quality.

The last time I was in a auto manufacturing facility I observed far more human installers than robots. While robots are used heavily in the auto industry it is mostly welding, painting and heavy repetitive tasks that injure workers. Most all other items are still hand/human assembled.

Gross failures of products that could have been avoided by basic training and inspections of materials and processes is not acceptable.

 

[TravelTiger]

I think the ops comment comparing cars and rv's was meant in terms of quality.

The last time I was in a auto manufacturing facility I observed far more human installers than robots. While robots are used heavily in the auto industry it is mostly welding, painting and heavy repetitive tasks that injure workers. Most all other items are still hand/human assembled.

Gross failures of products that could have been avoided by basic training and inspections of materials and processes is not acceptable.

Not making excuses for the end result, but again, if you want the RV industry to train and oversee and regulate and test and improve and...., that costs money, and it will be reflected in the cost of the end product.

 

[wiredog]

Not making excuses for the end result, but again, if you want the RV industry to train and oversee and regulate and test and improve and...., that costs money, and it will be reflected in the cost of the end product.

I paid 212 bucks per square foot, that's not chicken feed

 

[TravelTiger]

I paid 212 bucks per square foot, that's not chicken feed

No sir, it's not. But how do you stop these monstrosities like Thor from doing what they are doing? The RV industry is booming again. They can't find enough (qualified?) workers as it is.

Some may think I drink the HL cool-aid, but I am just not willing to single out a company when it's an industry-wide problem.

 

[wiredog]

No sir, it's not. But how do you stop these monstrosities like Thor from doing what they are doing? The RV industry is booming again. They can't find enough (qualified?) workers as it is.

Some may think I drink the HL cool-aid, but I am just not willing to single out a company when it's an industry-wide problem.

Everyone here, myself included drank the kool-aid thats why we post here. I bet you couldn't search the entire data base of posts and find anyone who thinks this is Heartlands problem alone.

The cause, cure thats for them to figure out. We as consumers must demand fair value for money spent.

No one here expects lifetime warranties with no issues, but we do expect a soundly constructed trailer that delivers the experience that they sell.

 

[kowAlski631]

I think the ops comment comparing cars and rv's was meant in terms of quality.

The last time I was in a auto manufacturing facility I observed far more human installers than robots. While robots are used heavily in the auto industry it is mostly welding, painting and heavy repetitive tasks that injure workers. Most all other items are still hand/human assembled.

Gross failures of products that could have been avoided by basic training and inspections of materials and processes is not acceptable.

And the human assembler in an auto assembly line takes a bolt, puts it in the proper opening, and with a tool computerized to tighten the bolt to engineer specs, tightens it. Then to the next station. So, it's factual that humans are still involved in assembly, but their actual roles are overseen by computers at every station. Truth be told, very few humans are actually required to build a car - the job can be done by robots.

In the RV factory, there are blueprints laid out and specs for each unit traveling with it on the line. It's a handmade product.

Big differences. Just saying.....

Martha

 

[mlburst1]

It's not rocket science to apply butyl tape with no twists or make sure the butyl tape completely surrounds the window before installing it - poor quality workmanship and lack of any quality control is what my post refers to - didn't say it was only a Heartland problem, clearly an industry wide problem.

 

[wiredog]

And the human assembler in an auto assembly line takes a bolt, puts it in the proper opening, and with a tool computerized to tighten the bolt to engineer specs, tightens it. Then to the next station. So, it's factual that humans are still involved in assembly, but their actual roles are overseen by computers at every station. Truth be told, very few humans are actually required to build a car - the job can be done by robots.

In the RV factory, there are blueprints laid out and specs for each unit traveling with it on the line. It's a handmade product.

Big differences. Just saying.....

Martha

Last time I checked the most desirable products in the world are "handmade"

So the thought process that since it is handmade its expected to be inferior is not supported by facts

 

[kowAlski631]

Not arguing with you, just saying that products produced without human intervention have fewer errors in the manufacture.

Have a great weekend

Martha

 

[JohnD]

In the RV factory, there are blueprints laid out and specs for each unit traveling with it on the line. It's a handmade product.

This I think may be the heart of the problem.

Perhaps some of the people building our units don't know how to read those blueprints correctly.

Considering the coax wiring in our Prowler was hooked up completely backwards, and when our dealership rewired it according to the schematic and it was again completely backwards ( I wound up rewiring it up myself the right way), I'm thinking that my blueprint theory is right.

 

[wiredog]

Cant argue that point. Have a great weekend as well

 

[donr827]

I think that the workers being paid per trailer and not per hour is where the problem lies in my opinion. They are more interested in getting the trailer out the door then how good the quality is. As others have said it is a industry wide problem.
Don

 

[Bohemian]

Last time I checked the most desirable products in the world are "handmade"

So the thought process that since it is handmade its expected to be inferior is not supported by facts

No, it depends on the ptoduct. Hand made cars may be eligant and expensive, but yhet suffer from reliability problems thus requiring even more expense to try to get reliabikity back 8ntomyhe product.