REPAIRED: Structural Problem?

[StrongJava]

Hello!

I am new here. My wife and I just completed our 3rd trip in the 2008 Bighorn 3670RL we bought a couple of months ago. Our plan is to move in full time next year. I almost posted after the first trip because we had a number of problems. Suffice to say, the dealer wasn't helpful and I'm now starting to think I bought a lemon. This is our first 5er.

Here is the current issue that really has me concerned. We were up in Oklahoma (along OK 69 to be exact) for the Thanksgiving week. The highway was kind of rough. And, during one of our stops, I noticed the front stabilizers seemed lower than they had been. Confirmed a little bit later when I started scraping going in/out of parking lots that were not exactly the same elevation as the road. And double confirmed when we tried to get in the driveway at home. No go. :-(

I will post pictures tomorrow of the damage I can see, but something clearly moved. As I think back to the walk through before we bought it, I'm even more convinced now that something else had happened to the trailer with the previous owner.

In any case, have others had problems where the front of the trailer drops? Should I expect a major problem? Or is there no way to tell until the walls are taken off the front.

Thanks for any (initial) thoughts.

Tim

 

[danemayer]

Re: Structural Problem?

Hi StrongJava,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum.

It sounds like you may be describing frame flex. Take pictures hitched and unhitched, showing the entire pin box and front of the trailer. If you can put the camera on a tripod, it'll be easier to clearly show what's happening.

With pictures ready to email, call Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030. Have your VIN # ready. Heartland can give you an opinion about what the pictures show. Even though a 2008 is way, way out of warranty, and you're not the original owner, it's possible Heartland may help you. It's worth a phone call, and at the least you'll probably have a better understanding of what's going on.

 

[cookie]

Re: Structural Problem?

Along with what Dan said, take a look in your front closet for any wood paneling separated from the wall.
Open the door to the area that houses your battery and look toward and up toward the front of the trailer. You will be looking for broke welds.
Please come back after contacting Heartland and let us know the outcome.

Peace
Dave

 

[JohnDar]

Structural Problem?

Just from your description, I suggest you inspect the lower drop frame welds to the main frame. Sounds extreme that the front cap problem would drop the raised jacks to where they scrape the ground without there being severe damage visible to the outer walls.

I'm not saying you may not have the documented poor welds of the cap (mine repaired under warranty), but it sounds like more is afoot.

In my case, i was alerted by a very squeaky bedroom floor and feeling the edge of a plywood panel under the carpet. Dealer diagnosed and repaired it when I mentioned it. Involved removal of most of the front of the rig.

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[StrongJava]

Re: Structural Problem?

Just from your description, I suggest you inspect the lower drop frame welds to the main frame. Sounds extreme that the front cap problem would drop the raised jacks to where they scrape the ground without there being severe damage visible to the outer walls.

I'm not saying you may not have the documented poor welds of the cap (mine repaired under warranty), but it sounds like more is afoot.

In my case, i was alerted by a very squeaky bedroom floor and feeling the edge of a plywood panel under the carpet. Dealer diagnosed and repaired it when I mentioned it. Involved removal of most of the front of the rig.

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Yes John, the squeaky floor is the new piece since the drive yesterday. And the edge of a plywood panel under the carpet. Can I assume your issue was under warranty when it occurred?

Thank you to all who have replied. I'll look at both issues, but suspect the damage is not limited to the pin box. I'll get photos now that it is light out. Separation is occurring of the wall panel and shelves in the closet. I've also noticed what I believe is a new crack on the port (yes, I'm a sailor) side interior of the bedroom and an outside crack in about the same place.

More to follow.

Tim

 

[StrongJava]

Re: Structural Problem?

I've attached photos which show left and right side views of the pinbox with weight on the hitch and off. I had figured this kind of "deflection" when putting the weight on the truck was normal, but now I wonder if I'm incorrect?



And yes, I've found broken frames in the battery compartment. I welcome any thoughts about age of the breaks or any appearance of previous stress/attempts to repair.



Thanks in advance. As suggested, I'll call Heartland tomorrow.

Tim

 

[JohnDar]

Re: Structural Problem?

I'll hazard a guess that the last photo of the weld break looks like it occurred fairly recently. There does not appear to be any rust along the fracture face. Hard to tell much from the other photos, though, although it appears that there is some deformation of the overhang cover. Funny that the cap still has the sticker on it showing the turn radius info. Did you buy that from a previous owner or off a dealer lot? Most owners remove those labels the minute they get home.

Definitely contact HL tomorrow.

 

[StrongJava]

Re: Structural Problem?

I agree the break of the weld looks recent, as does the snapped aluminum cross bar. What I don't know is if the existing weld above the break is original or an indication where someone tried to repair previous damage.

And I don't understand what would have caused the break. I have a hypothesis that I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others supporting it or debunking it. My hypothesis is that something in the pin box area isn't right, and so when we hit the rough highway in OK, the exaggerated hard movement of the trailer caused the break? As I mentioned before, this is our first 5th wheel, and I'm not sure I really understand how they should ride? When we hit bumps in the highway, I get quite a significant amount of bucking of the front of the trailer, and I seem to recall seeing the pin box push up into the trailer. I figured this was normal. Is it?

One thing I've noticed that I was not sure was clear in the photos is that the front of the pin box does push up into the overhang when weight it put on it. Is that normal or should it all stay pretty much unchanged?

I bought it off a dealer lot and was told it was a trade in. So, I guess the previous owner didn't take it off. Or is this some indication of a new cap? It doesn't look that new as the stickers look worn too. I'll check in the daylight tomorrow to see if the wear is even.

Thanks again, and I hope you're doing well up North.

Tim

 

[JohnDar]

Re: Structural Problem?

Several owners had problems with weak welds in the front cap supports in the 2008 - 2010 models. Not all, just some. In most cases, HL repaired them for the original owner. With your VIN, they should be able to tell if a warranty claim had been submitted for that rig.

There is some flex/movement of the pin while traveling over rough roads, but it should not look like a "bucking bronco." The chucking you get can be due to the stiff OEM pin box and a hitch without a cushioning system of some sort. Many owners have replaced the OEM pin with a cushioned one like the 5th Airborne or MorRyde. Others have gone to more expensive hitches with cushions and springs in them. All a matter of how much your comfort is worth in terms of $$.

 

[TravelTiger]

Structural Problem?

I'll chime in on the road experience! IMHO, 69 in Oklahoma is the worst excuse for a highway I've ever been on! Every 12 feet an expansion joint, and every "section" a seemingly different plane. We slowed to 50-55 to reduce the impact of the bucking experience (and we have an air ride pinbox). If you were going "typical speed", that was probably not a positive experience for your 5ver. Cracks may have become breaks.


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[scottyb]

Re: Structural Problem?

I'll chime in on the road experience! IMHO, 69 in Oklahoma is the worst excuse for a highway I've ever been on! Every 12 feet an expansion joint, and every "section" a seemingly different plane. We slowed to 50-55 to reduce the impact of the bucking experience (and we have an air ride pinbox). If you were going "typical speed", that was probably not a positive experience for your 5ver. Cracks may have become breaks.

Sorry for your problems. I had the fortune of hauling just an OHV and trailer up that stretch of road about two weeks before I got my 5th wheel. I marked that route off my list and found a different way to get to MO from Texas. That road may have just brought an underlying issue to the surface. I could see that happening.

 

[JohnDar]

Re: Structural Problem?

Must be the number. I-69 in Michigan will beat you silly, especially between Flint and Port Huron.


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[jimtoo]

Re: Structural Problem?

I'll chime in on the road experience! IMHO, 69 in Oklahoma is the worst excuse for a highway I've ever been on! Every 12 feet an expansion joint, and every "section" a seemingly different plane. We slowed to 50-55 to reduce the impact of the bucking experience (and we have an air ride pinbox). If you were going "typical speed", that was probably not a positive experience for your 5ver. Cracks may have become breaks.


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And I agree with you on that road (highway 69) and 75 (part toll way) is not much, if any, better.

 

[JohnD]

Re: Structural Problem?

I-25 southbound between Ft. Collins and Erie, Colorado used to be like that until they finished the resurface project a couple of years ago . . .

 

[Sans1]

Not normal no matter how bad the highway. Hard to tell buy the pic of the weld looks like there was a previous repair. Sorry you are having a bad experience. But think it needs to be fixed before using, as is, likely you are at risk for a serious accident.

 

[StrongJava]

Re: Structural Problem?

Has anyone experience with what I should expect for cost to repair, including any necessary reinforcement of the pin box? Cosmetically, some fiberglass work will be required and I assume the carpet in the bedroom taken up so the floor can be reseated.

 

[TravelTiger]

Re: Structural Problem?

First, contact Heartland. Even if they can't offer you a completely free repair, they will know exactly what's needed and can possibly give you an idea of cost.


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[dave10a]

Re: Structural Problem?

Lets no blame the roads for a weak frame.

 

[TravelTiger]

Re: Structural Problem?

Lets no blame the roads for a weak frame.

No, wasn't offering an excuse-- but that road can certainly exacerbate a problem that may not have been obvious before.


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[StrongJava]

Re: Structural Problem?

Heartland is looking into the issue and passing photos to Lippert Components. Their initial take (if I'm reading the emails correctly) is that the pin box area looks fine. I'm not ready to take anything off the table yet. I took a video of me lifting the trailer off the truck (ok, *I* didn't actually do the lifting) but even at 6.9M it is too big to upload. I'd like you all to see it so I'll have to figure out how to get the size to what the forum can handle.

Cheers, Tim