Replacing Furnace...........

[Uncle Rog]

Howdy, I have considered this on the last two rigs I have had. I think adding a, wall mount, catalytic heater would be a lot more efficient, quieter, and save a lot of battery power when not hooked up. This is the type I am looking at,
http://www.mrheater.com/ProductFamily.aspx?catid=57
We have the Mr Buddy two burner portable and it works very well. We refill the 1# bottles or use the 20# tank in the 5er, it just would be cleaner with the wall mount unit............
Has anybody done this?

 

[sailorand]

Hi Roger
Our friends have one mounted and it works really great. Ours is free standing with a quick connect line to the main tanks.

 

[Uncle Rog]

Hi Rand, I remember now you t'd into the furnace supply line, nice set up. The more I look at what is available, and the expense, makes my Mr Buddy look pretty good. The wall mount just appeals to me for space consideration. If you are out here again in Jan I will try to look you up and have a beer...........

 

[Paul_in_MN]

Caution!!

Even though a catalytic LP heater says it can be used indoors, it is consuming LP gas, and with perfect combustion, it is using Oxygen, and giving off Carbon Dioxide and Water vapor. Now that is with pure LP gas and perfect burning. When you are burning some gas with impurities (as all gas has some impurities) you get other unknown exhaust products.

There is no magic chemistry to the catalytic surface. It is just there to help achieve the best combustion possible. So at best you are putting water vapor into your trailer (not real good), and putting Carbon dioxide into a small space. But both come off as warm air and go towards the ceiling. Meanwhile your Carbon Monoxide detector is at the floor level. Carbon dioxide will make you feel tired and light headed (you are not getting enough oxygen into your blood), and Carbon Monoxide will kill you. Carbon Monoxide is created by the same catalytic process if it is not getting enough oxygen for perfect combustion.

Bottom line for me and my family....There will be NO UNVENTED LP devices operating in my trailer, no matter how safe the advertising says it is. About 30 years ago, I was almost "snuffed out" by a carbon monoxide leak in a house I was working on. From either natural gas or LP gas, you will never smell the carbon monoxide.

Be safe, use the furnace or an electric heater.

Paul_in_MN

 

[caissiel]

Well said, I agree fully with the last post, A furnace is well controled and much safer. We use the fireplace as an additional heater, saves on the propane and quieter then the furnace starting and stoping in the night.

 

[JohnDar]

I have one of the two-burner portable units that I used to use in my garage while puttering around in the winter. I can't say anything good about it. Use it indoors at your peril. Mine is collecting dust in the garage attic until I can find a sucker to unload it on.

 

[lwmcguir]

Don't all of the un-vented heaters recommend having a window cracked open? Last time I read the manuals fine print, if they were for occupied space then you needed to let in fresh air.

 

[jmaguire]

Listen to Paul. It is not worth having any unvented appliance in your living space.

 

[SmokeyBare]

In fact the Gas Detector at the floor level is for Propane Gas. Located there because of propane is far heavier than the air we breath. A propane gas leak would drop to the lowest point.

The CO detector in our BigHorn is located in the bedroom and attached to the ceiling. Carbon monoxide is nearly the same weight as the air we breath... slight movement of the rooms air, such as a fan blowing or the furnace running would all CO to move about. It would reach the ceiling as quickly as any other location.

There is a very good report from " United States Consumer Product Safety Commission "

Here is the Link: http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA05/os/CO03.pdf

Look at the bottom of page 3 which continues to page 4 for their results of the test.

Marv

 

[cookie]

All of the above and the fact that on page 5 of the owners manual it says "WARNING, never install the heater in a recreational vehicle", are things that might want to make you rethink what you are considering.

Peace
Dave

 

[sailorand]

Roger
we will be in Quartzsite Jan 17 to 24, then in Palm Springs 1000 trails Jan 25until Jan 8. Hope to see you

 

[Uncle Rog]

Thanks for the replies, I understand your concerns expressed and appreciate their basis. We only use Mr Buddy with several windows and the ceiling vent cracked open a bit. We do not use it when sleeping, unless it is really cold, and then we use it at the lowest temp and crack the windows at the head of the bed a might.

Rand, I will try to work it out, be safe out there amongst 'em...........

On Edit: We always place it on the stove top IF it is used at night with the outside vent propped open............

 

[pigpen1491]

I purchased a blue flame from harbour freight. I did the install and it works great. Mine has the auto shut down for low oxygen and it works. A late night card game and it got chilly., looked a no flame. Opemed door and relit stove, all is well. About 120 with fittings Jack

 

[SmokeyBare]

Uncle Rog,

I only offered the info from the Government report to quell the speculation about catalytic heaters.

I have a Olympian Wave heaters. I've yet to install a gas line and quick disconnect in our BigHorn. It's on my "TO-DO" list... maybe this winter while were in Rockport. I plan on putting a Tee Connection on the Stove Gas Line... and running the quick connect fitting some place along the base of the cabinets.

Blue Flame can and will put Co2 in the RV. But please remember, every time we run the Gas Oven... every time we use the stove top burners... CO2 is being produced as well. For every gal out there who enjoys the scent of a candle burning... for every guy who enjoys standing around a campfire... We are also enjoying increased levels of CO2 gas. Heck... when we exhale... out comes CO2 as well... seems we can't get away from the stuff !!

The Engineering Tool Box web site lists the following levels for CO2.
Normal CO2 Levels


The effects of increased CO2 levels on adults at good health can be summarized:

• normal outdoor level: 350 - 450 ppm
• acceptable levels: < 600 ppm
• complaints of stiffness and odors: 600 - 1000 ppm
• ASHRAE and OSHA standards: 1000 ppm
• general drowsiness: 1000 - 2500 ppm
• adverse health effects expected: 2500 - 5000 ppm
• maximum allowed concentration within a 8 hour working period: 5000 ppm

The levels above are quite normal and maximum levels may occasionally happen from time to time.
Extreme and Dangerous CO2 Levels

• slightly intoxicating, breathing and pulse rate increase, nausea: 30,000 ppm
• above plus headaches and sight impairment: 50,000 ppm
• unconscious, further exposure death: 100.000 ppm

Keeping a window cracked will in fact help.


So as we sit down to enjoy our Thanksgiving Turkey dinner this next week. With the rooms filled with the Wonderful scent of Turkey roasting... pumpkin Pies baking... Remember to Crack a window.... loosen our belts.... and Give thanks to a wonderful life we are enjoying. Thanks to the Freedom we all share... Give thanks for those who are away from their Loved ones... serving in the Armed Forces... Those who have volunteered to serve their Country so we can all enjoy those Precious Freedoms.

Marv

 

[thomasinnv]

here is a less expensive alternative to the mr.buddy heater.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200395466_200395466

i installed one in my last rv and intend to install one in my new rv. i was impressed with the quality and it worked flawlessly. comes with a built in thermostat so you can control room temp without having to constantly turn the unit on and off or up and down.

 

[boatdoc]

I wanted to sit back and watch this one for awhile and now I'll chime in. I, my BIL and a couple of other hunting buddies have used the Olypian Catalytic heaters for well over 15 years and not one of us have ever woke up dead!!! IF used properly they are great for backwoods heat. Sure, if you pull in and plug in why use one but when AMPs are as precious as they are 40 miles from a good gravel road the Oly's are great. We all set them up with the feet and long quick disconnects so they can be put anywhere in the shelter one is using, be it trailer or tent or cabin.
All of us couldn't be happier with the way they work and the very low propane use let alone the NO power needed.
Just our 5 cents worth, boatdoc

 

[El Santiago]

Marv on post no. 14 sums the issue of CO2 very well. I have an Olympian Wave 8 that I installed in my rig. In the day, I always leave a window open and at night I shut the heater off and use the electric heaters. I am only worried about the condensation that the catalytic heater produces since it runs on propane. In the climate (Victoria BC), especially at this time of the year, condensation builds up very fast on the windows.

 

[lwmcguir]

Great post regarding Carbon Dioxide. Oxygen level is even more important in the Coach. That is why all the space heaters and un-vented fireplaces have oxygen sensors that shut off the propane/natural gas supply when it drops below 19% or so. Again why you have to have a window cracked or you are just plain nuts. The normal level in the atmosphere is nearly 21%.

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

The only thing I would be worried about is CO. Just make sure your CO sensors are working properly. I know that these heaters are supposed to be 99.9 % efficient, but....................

 

[lwmcguir]

Please read the attachment. Note that 1# of propane needs 25 cubic feet of air for combustion. Leave the window cracked or someone else may take your place on the forum.