SOLVED: 2015 Big Country - no DC power

cgaskins

Well-known member
I have a strange 12 volt power problem in my brand new 2015 Big Country 3650RL

None of the 12 volt lights work when running off battery. If I plug into shore power, they work.

When running on battery, I can't even get a battery status from the control inside the coach. Same is true when the brake/power cable is plugged from the trailer to truck.

My invertor will power up but then when the fridge is turned it gives me an E03 and then powers off.

Any ideas where to start?

I am going to check battery voltages next.

-Chris
 

cookie

Administrator
Staff member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

Take a look at the bank of 12 volt breakers.
They should be located near your battery and they will have red rubber/plastic covers.
There should be one breaker with a tiny reset button on the side of it. Press the button.

Peace
Dave
 

Roller4tan

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

There is a resettable breaker that the positive battery lead connects to. Mine is located after the battery cutoff switch. On the side of the breaker is a little button for the reset. I had the same issue. The slides and levellers worked but no 12v to trailer. Pushed the reset and all works.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

There is a resettable breaker that the positive battery lead connects to. Mine is located after the battery cutoff switch. On the side of the breaker is a little button for the reset. I had the same issue. The slides and levellers worked but no 12v to trailer. Pushed the reset and all works.

Yup, found the breaker with the "tiny" little button. Reset it and all is good except for my inverter still goes to E03 when the refrigerator (residential style) is turned on. Check the batteries, they are at 12.85 volts and my indoor control panel shows them being 3/4 full.

Any thoughts on the E03 error on the inverter?

-Chris
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

Oh, Thanks for the quick replies. Dealer didn't show me the reset switch on the breaker.

-Chris
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

Yup, found the breaker with the "tiny" little button. Reset it and all is good except for my inverter still goes to E03 when the refrigerator (residential style) is turned on. Check the batteries, they are at 12.85 volts and my indoor control panel shows them being 3/4 full.

Any thoughts on the E03 error on the inverter?

-Chris

Hi Chris,

Now that you've pressed the reset button, the power converter should be re-charging the batteries. Voltage at the battery terminals should be well over 13 V - maybe 13.6. The E03 code on the inverter is signaling that the refrigerator is drawing more amps than the inverter can supply - probably because the batteries are not fully charged. 12.85V is an indication that the batteries need more time to charge fully.

There was a change to the inverters a few months ago to solve an E03 problem, but if yours has previously worked on batteries, you already have the newer level.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

Hi Chris,

Now that you've pressed the reset button, the power converter should be re-charging the batteries. Voltage at the battery terminals should be well over 13 V - maybe 13.6. The E03 code on the inverter is signaling that the refrigerator is drawing more amps than the inverter can supply - probably because the batteries are not fully charged. 12.85V is an indication that the batteries need more time to charge fully.

There was a change to the inverters a few months ago to solve an E03 problem, but if yours has previously worked on batteries, you already have the newer level.

Dane, thanks for the reply. Yes, I found my manual on the E03 code. I am not sure that it has ever worked as its a brand new unit and I the walk through was all done on shore power. Today was the first day we tried the unit without shore power. When I pressed the "battery" button on my control panel it says the batteries are at 3/4 charge. Shouldn't the fridge run on a 3/4 of a charge?

-Chris
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

Dane, thanks for the reply. Yes, I found my manual on the E03 code. I am not sure that it has ever worked as its a brand new unit and I the walk through was all done on shore power. Today was the first day we tried the unit without shore power. When I pressed the "battery" button on my control panel it says the batteries are at 3/4 charge. Shouldn't the fridge run on a 3/4 of a charge?

-Chris
Chris,

I'm not sure what the threshhold would be, but low batteries will not provide enough power to keep it all running. Also, normally, once the reset button is pressed, voltage from the power converter is applied to the batteries and you should see over 13V at the batteries. If you're still showing less than 13V, you may still have something wrong.

There's a wiring block diagram in the Residential Refrigerator Guide that may be helpful in tracing the problem.

If the voltage at the batteries doesn't get back above 13V, the 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic Guide may be a help. While it doesn't speak to the refrigerator or inverter, if there's a more general problem getting power to the batteries, it may help you figure it out.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I know nothing about the residential fridge or the inverter that powers it. But I do know batteries. A 12.85 v batt is considered a fully charged battery in most circles or at least a 90% charged batt. At first blush, I would think that the inverter low voltage cut out should be lower because it takes quite a number of 12.v DC amps to invert to 120 and 2-4 amps to run a residential refrigerator. It might even take up to 6 amps at a 120v to start the compressor.

4 amps at 120 v is = 37.4 amps at 12.85 v. To make X amps from a battery you have to give up Y volts to produce that current, plus the internal amps required to run the inverter. This is what causes the inverter to activate the low voltage cut-out.

To improve current between the batt and the inverter, all connections must be clean tight and lubricated. And the lead wires must be large enough. Every batt volt counts when you are trying to create 3 to 4 amps at 120 v.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Update

The dealership told me today that the inverter that was installed at the factory has a known defect and is recalled. They have ordered a replacement inverter that will hopefully be installed by Friday.

To big frustrations on this whole deal:

1. The camper was shipped from the factory in this state. It was obviously never tested on 12 volt power or this problem would have been found. This makes me question Heartland's quality control practices - either a step was skipped by an individual or they have a hole in their QA process.

2. The dealer didn't perform any of the PDI on 12 volt power - they obviously did everything on shore power.

If any of the Heartland reps are watching this forum, I would love to know how this made it out of the factory as it never worked - ever not even at the factory.

-Chris
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Chris,

Depending on when your unit was built, it may have the down level inverter, or not. Some number of units were out the factory door between the time that the problem began and the solution was implemented a few months ago. The problem was that the refrigerator manufacturer made a change that caused it to momentarily draw more power than the prior version, exceeding the capability of the inverter. The solution was to change the firmware in the inverter to handle the very short "surge".

I hope your dealer has done a thorough diagnosis because your voltage readings on the battery suggest that you may have another problem. When plugged into shore power, a voltage reading of 12.85 V at the battery is abnormally low.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Chris,

Depending on when your unit was built, it may have the down level inverter, or not. Some number of units were out the factory door between the time that the problem began and the solution was implemented a few months ago. The problem was that the refrigerator manufacturer made a change that caused it to momentarily draw more power than the prior version, exceeding the capability of the inverter. The solution was to change the firmware in the inverter to handle the very short "surge".

I hope your dealer has done a thorough diagnosis because your voltage readings on the battery suggest that you may have another problem. When plugged into shore power, a voltage reading of 12.85 V at the battery is abnormally low.

Thanks for the additional info on the inverter recall Dane. I can't comment on the diagnosis they dealer performed only what they told me.... As to the 12.85 volts, that was measured without shore power and it is my understanding that is normal.

-Chris
 
Your Fridge shouldn't be running when you are on battery power. Put it on automatic and it will switch to propane when you are not on shore power. On my 2013 Bighorn 3670RL there is a circuit breaker inside that is on the inverter circuit. Didn't know about the little red reset button.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Your Fridge shouldn't be running when you are on battery power. Put it on automatic and it will switch to propane when you are not on shore power. On my 2013 Bighorn 3670RL there is a circuit breaker inside that is on the inverter circuit. Didn't know about the little red reset button.

Mike, I have a residential fridge which is electric only - no propane.

Thanks,
Chris
 

MikeR

Well-known member
Chris, I don't think HL has plant in Texas unless you are in Indiana.

I believe you misunderstood his post. He didn't mean that his camper was shipped from Texas. He meant that it was shipped in the state (condition) that it is in now, with a bad inverter.
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
I believe you misunderstood his post. He didn't mean that his camper was shipped from Texas. He meant that it was shipped in the state (condition) that it is in now, with a bad inverter.

You are correct Mike. The camper was shipped in a "defective" state as the configuration of the existing inverter and residential fridge never worked and never would have worked. Very poor QA by Heartland. Furthermore if this is a know problem why did Heartland not tell the dealers to purge their inventory of the bad inverters or proactively ship good inverters instead of waiting for the customer to find it. I still love my new camper but I am less impressed by Heartland at this point. I am also not impressed with Explore USA as they obviously didn't perform any of the PDI on 12 volt power.

Oh well - lesson learned - I should have tested it myself before I left the dealership. Fun fun.

Happy Camping everyone!

-Chris
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
Re: 2015 Big Country - no volt power

FINAL update on this.... Friday of last week, I drove down to ExploreUSA in Kyle, Texas to pick up the Big Country as the inverter had been swapped out. Upon arrival, one of the service managers took me to the unit so we could test it and see the fridge run off of the inverter before I hooked up. Guess what - he tested it and the same problem occurred. Turned the inverter, turned on the fridge then 30 seconds later the inverter starts beeping, throws code E03 then turns off. We repeat it twice with the same results. At this point there was a mad scramble of technicians as they know they look bad and I am a little irritated. About 30 minutes later I am told it is all fixed. I start asking questions and they tell me that while the inverter was swapped out they installed a downlevel unit that had the same issue. They had to pull one off of a new unit that had the correct firmware. It appeared to me they didn't know about the date code until the inverter until that morning.... OH well, it worked fine at that point as well as for my trip over the weekend. All good now!

-Chris
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
I think trying to track down where every unit that has a bad inverter is would be a daunting task.

Once units are built, they get crammed into a holding yard like sardines. Not easy to just pull a few and haul them back to the factory.

2nd, transport companies take possession of them and they may sit in their holding lot, waiting in a driver.

Then, individual drivers haul each unit to an RV dealer. Not in a caravan, just whenever the transport company can get a driver to go there. So they all arrive on the RV dealer lot at different times.

Lots of time for affected units to get "lost in the shuffle".

And shipping inverters when you don't know if bad ones are installed or not is a waste of money and time.

HL should have sent a bulletin warning dealers of the possible failure, and dealers should have tested all their units. -- but again, this must be proactive on the dealer part to hook units to a power source and test.

RV Dealers are interested in selling, not doing maintenance before someone buys it.

Not giving excuses, just sayin' the industry has plenty of inefficiency in the process so I can see how they get to the customer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

cgaskins

Well-known member
I think trying to track down where every unit that has a bad inverter is would be a daunting task.

Once units are built, they get crammed into a holding yard like sardines. Not easy to just pull a few and haul them back to the factory.

2nd, transport companies take possession of them and they may sit in their holding lot, waiting in a driver.

Then, individual drivers haul each unit to an RV dealer. Not in a caravan, just whenever the transport company can get a driver to go there. So they all arrive on the RV dealer lot at different times.

Lots of time for affected units to get "lost in the shuffle".

And shipping inverters when you don't know if bad ones are installed or not is a waste of money and time.

HL should have sent a bulletin warning dealers of the possible failure, and dealers should have tested all their units. -- but again, this must be proactive on the dealer part to hook units to a power source and test.

RV Dealers are interested in selling, not doing maintenance before someone buys it.

Not giving excuses, just sayin' the industry has plenty of inefficiency in the process so I can see how they get to the customer.

First and foremost this problem should have been caught in the factory. The fact that it happened proves that the there is a hole in the Heartland post build testing process in the factory. If the fridge was tested on 12 volt power from the inverter, this would have been found immediately. It is a solid failure within 30 seconds of powering on the fridge.

I understand what you are saying but have some specific comments about some of your points.
  1. "And shipping inverters when you don't know if bad ones are installed or not is a waste of money and time." Yes, proactively shipping inverters is a bad idea which I have never advocated for. Bad idea.
  2. "RV Dealers are interested in selling, not doing maintenance before someone buys it." Wrong. The dealers very interested in ensuring they deliver quality products to the customer. The entire PDI process is meant to catch issues before the sale.
  3. "Not giving excuses, just sayin' the industry has plenty of inefficiency in the process so I can see how they get to the customer." Selling products through a distribution channel is no excuse for not managing problems of this type more proactively. The auto industry is good example of how this can be handled more maturely.

I apologize up front but I am going to get on my "soapbox". This not meant to be rude, mean, or disrespectful - just my very passionate opinion derived from years of commercial experience with channels and customer support.

[SOAPBOX START]
Over my career have I have worked for quite a few companies that created products that were sold through a distribution channel. I have spent many years working in customer support and channel management. Selling RV's through a dealer network is simply channel distribution selling. For some of my companies in the past, the complexity of their distribution channel makes the RV reseller network look simple. The point is yes, the factory does loose control once product is shipped to distribution but distribution selling is not an excuse for having known product issues in the channel if proper record keeping done in concert with mature channel management practices.

This problem was discovered after units left the factory and were placed in the distribution channel. It is unfortunate but it does happen. It happened to my companies in the past. Once the specific serial number range of refrigerators that drew more power was known, the problem should have been more proactively managed by Heartland. A mature channel process is NOT a simple one way notification to dealers - hoping they will take the time to read it and deal with it. An example of a mature channel process is to proactively reaching out to service managers via phone calls to warn them of these types of issues. Yes this takes time, but it also is the mature and proper way to manage something like this. The point is own the problem - don't make it the responsibility of the dealership. Heartland "kicked the can" to the dealership plain and simple. Service managers are busy people and if you think they are reading service bulletins in a timely fashion you are sadly mistaken. This is especially true at dealerships which represent multiple RV manufacturers. Furthermore this is not typical service bulletin data. In this case, it was a blatant product failure - known by the factory to a definitive number of units. There was no chance of this ever working - period. BTW most car manufacturers have factory service reps that routinely and proactively contact dealerships via phone for a variety of reasons one of them to help deal with issues like this. There are way more Ford or Chevy dealerships across the country than there are Heartland dealerships so it can be done on a very large scale with the proper resources if you are serious about product quality. The automotive manufactures have extremely mature processes for issues like this - don't reinvent the wheel Heartland - hire a channel service manager from the auto industry and implement their best practices.

BTW, I spoke with the service manager at the dealership, they had no knowledge of this issue until it was discovered on my RV. Furthermore I had more info than they did based on what I learned from this forum. (Thank you everyone that helped.) I have no idea if Heartland sent notifications to dealers or if this dealer was lax and didn't read it or what. The point is - this is definitely a problem that should have been managed more proactively by Heartland and they should not rely a process of "hoping the dealership reads the service bulletins".

Finally, while I love my Big Country RV - I am skeptical of Heartland's QA process at the factory and their channel management. I am not trying to bash them or make them look bad, just stating some facts and my opinion based on those facts. I continue to be impressed with this forum and I still have a positive attitude towards Heartland in general. However, my hope in expressing all of this is that someone at Heartland will read this post, learn from it, and hopefully make the right process improvements. If problems are not exposed, then improvements won't be made. For my channel products in the past, I would have killed for feedback like this.

Thank you Heartland for allowing your customers to express issues and opinions on this forum. You build good products and provide good customer service. However, the job is never done and improvements can always be made. Hopefully my comments help.
[SOAPBOX END]

Have a great day!!
Regards,
Chris
 
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