TIPS for reducing pin weight/overall weight 1000 lbs Cyclone 3100

[taken]

I know this thread has been cold for two weeks, but thought I'd share this with the OP anyway. Dry pin weights aren't always way under the real weight. My RW 30C had a dry listed weight of 2900. That's before any options or gear in the trailer. Well, with both propane tanks full, a second AC in the BR, 100 lbs in the BR closet, a second battery, a heavier Trail Air Tri Glide pinbox, and a 5500 Onan, my pin weight is UNDER the factory dry listed weight. I scaled it two years back and from my rear axle weight I suspected this. Then recently I weighed it again at home on my Sherline scale. 2825lbs. So, unless you weigh everything yourself, sometimes you may be the exception as opposed to the rule...

 

[Miltp920]

I figure my pin weight is 3000 to 3100lbs. Since my wife will not tell me how much she weighs, I can only get in the ballpark. Cyclone web site did not list pin weight last time I checked. I have decided to join those that drive with caution, knowing they are slightly over weight. I am just not ready to give up my SRW 2500HD. As a wise man on this site posted, it is hard to find a SRW truck that can handle 3100 lbs pin weight and not exceed RGAWR.
If I understand my scale readings, 15,500lbs total, 3200 pin weight, 20% 5er weight on pin.

I know this thread has been cold for two weeks, but thought I'd share this with the OP anyway. Dry pin weights aren't always way under the real weight. My RW 30C had a dry listed weight of 2900. That's before any options or gear in the trailer. Well, with both propane tanks full, a second AC in the BR, 100 lbs in the BR closet, a second battery, a heavier Trail Air Tri Glide pinbox, and a 5500 Onan, my pin weight is UNDER the factory dry listed weight. I scaled it two years back and from my rear axle weight I suspected this. Then recently I weighed it again at home on my Sherline scale. 2825lbs. So, unless you weigh everything yourself, sometimes you may be the exception as opposed to the rule...

 

[taken]

I figure my pin weight is 3000 to 3100lbs. Since my wife will not tell me how much she weighs, I can only get in the ballpark. Cyclone web site did not list pin weight last time I checked. I have decided to join those that drive with caution, knowing they are slightly over weight. I am just not ready to give up my SRW 2500HD. As a wise man on this site posted, it is hard to find a SRW truck that can handle 3100 lbs pin weight and not exceed RGAWR.
If I understand my scale readings, 15,500lbs total, 3200 pin weight, 20% 5er weight on pin.

Heartland usually lists dry pin weight right on their website for all their brands. Strange your 3100 isn't listed as most other models are but then again, I'm not surprised. Heartland does a really poor job with their website for such a large company. There are many errors and exclusions so you can't really trust it. Check your pin sometime Milt, you might be surprised like I was that it's less than you thought. I figured mine would be 3300+ and was pleasantly surprised. Keeps the internet weight police off my back with my little SRW truck...

 

[Jim.Allison]

Change Diff Ratio.

IMHO, I dont think over pin weight is that big of a deal, AS LONG as the total load is still under your tire max load for the rear axle and your suspension is level. Dont worry about the load on teh axle bearings because 3/4 ton axles are more than capable of carrying any pin load that you could ever reasonably expect your truck to support. BUT the GCVW is a big problem. I saw all kinds of helpful advice on this thread, but I don't think I saw to be sure that you have your weight accurate to begin with. If you are considering taking out a 300 lb generator, and a 150 lb tire, it would make sense to make sure that your weights are accurate as you can make them in the first place. ex. weigh with full fuel and oil and expected passenger. Then start unloading the trailer of unnecessary items to bring the weight down.

But before you do all that, you might go to a junk yard and buy a differential that fits your truck and rebuild it or have it rebuilt that has a lower ratio. This will go a long way in increasing your GCVW. You will never change the published ratings on your truck but you can surely upgrade GCVW capability by more than what you need, by simply changing the diff ratio.

I might add, that at the same time you are building a differential you might get a local spring shop to make you a set of springs that will handle your loads. You already own the transmission that is desired by all HD truck owners. Once I heard it put like this, A Ford with a Cummins and an Allison transmission would be the greatest combination. I am not sure how much I agree except to say that all 3 have attributes, and your transmission is about bullet proof.

And the only reason I said to get a diff from a junk yard is so that you can build it in your spare time and not have down time on your truck. I will warn you though, you have to do some study before you do this because you will have to set the backlash on the ring and pinion.

Better yet, you might be able to find a good diff in the right ratio off of a wrecked truck with low milage.

 

[Jim.Allison]

A good set of 19.5 Ricksons and medium duty tires eliminate the need for dual wheels and you won't be buying tires for a while either.

19.5s???

 

[Miltp920]

I Weighed my truck only with full fuel. And on a different day I weighed my truck and 5er full fuel and 10 gallons in toy hauler fuel tank on my way to campground loaded for our camping stay. the only thing I did not know at the time is I should have taken a reading of front axle only and both axle only each time I weighed the truck, loaded and unloaded so I know my axle weights to compare to GMs ratings.. I may do that one more time, $10 is not that much to know my numbers. These are real numbers from a scale, so I don't know how they could be wrong. I basically have decided to live with my current situation, and be as cautious as I can be. I added airlift5000 for better weight control on rear axle. I know it does not make it right, but I bet 90% of those pulling heavy 5ers with 2500HD and 3500 HD SRW are over on one of their weight ratings. I have been studying weight tables and dually seems the only way to meet manufacture weight ratings, especially rear axle. I just learned this past weekend that the GMC 2500HD GCVWR has not changed between 2003 and 2009. I think it is because they stayed with 3.73 gears for mileage. I read my campground neighbor's manual and compared it to mine. I think this is BS, that 6 years of engineering did not improve the tow rating onthis truck. IF I were able to buy a new SRW with 4.10 or 4.33 gears, it might be enough, but I choose not to spend 50K++ on a different truck right now. We camp within 500 miles of home right now, most of the time within 50 miles. When we start going cross country, I will own a dually. My michelin 265/75/16s take my weight "capacity" to 6830 lbs even though GM says 6084 on the axle.

Change Diff Ratio.

IMHO, I dont think over pin weight is that big of a deal, AS LONG as the total load is still under your tire max load for the rear axle and your suspension is level. Dont worry about the load on teh axle bearings because 3/4 ton axles are more than capable of carrying any pin load that you could ever reasonably expect your truck to support. BUT the GCVW is a big problem. I saw all kinds of helpful advice on this thread, but I don't think I saw to be sure that you have your weight accurate to begin with. If you are considering taking out a 300 lb generator, and a 150 lb tire, it would make sense to make sure that your weights are accurate as you can make them in the first place. ex. weigh with full fuel and oil and expected passenger. Then start unloading the trailer of unnecessary items to bring the weight down.

But before you do all that, you might go to a junk yard and buy a differential that fits your truck and rebuild it or have it rebuilt that has a lower ratio. This will go a long way in increasing your GCVW. You will never change the published ratings on your truck but you can surely upgrade GCVW capability by more than what you need, by simply changing the diff ratio.

I might add, that at the same time you are building a differential you might get a local spring shop to make you a set of springs that will handle your loads. You already own the transmission that is desired by all HD truck owners. Once I heard it put like this, A Ford with a Cummins and an Allison transmission would be the greatest combination. I am not sure how much I agree except to say that all 3 have attributes, and your transmission is about bullet proof.

And the only reason I said to get a diff from a junk yard is so that you can build it in your spare time and not have down time on your truck. I will warn you though, you have to do some study before you do this because you will have to set the backlash on the ring and pinion.

Better yet, you might be able to find a good diff in the right ratio off of a wrecked truck with low milage.

 

[Jim.Allison]

From what I have read all diffs, GM, Ford, and Dodge diff can carry much more payload than what the truck and chassis can handle. The radial load is not a concern IMHO. But the ring and pinion is.

 

[porthole]

I may do that one more time, $10 is not that much to know my numbers. These are real numbers from a scale,

I'm guessing this was a CAT Scale?

If not, find a CAT scale and get your weight. You will get front axle, drive axle and trailer axles weight. Then go around back, drop the trailer and go weigh the truck. Tell the attendant you are doing a "re-weigh".

That extra weigh will cost you and extra dollar. With the two weight sheets you can do the math and get truck weight, trailer weight and pin weight.

 

[Miltp920]

It was not a CAT scale, but a certified scale at a crop production services. Weighing grains and stuff trucked in and out. I got a weight slip, it was easy in and easy out. So it was up to me to know to do each axle on the truck. I did not know I needed that so I got total truck and total combined truck and camper. Reweigh for a buck, good deal. Do they all do that?

I'm guessing this was a CAT Scale?

If not, find a CAT scale and get your weight. You will get front axle, drive axle and trailer axles weight. Then go around back, drop the trailer and go weigh the truck. Tell the attendant you are doing a "re-weigh".

That extra weigh will cost you and extra dollar. With the two weight sheets you can do the math and get truck weight, trailer weight and pin weight.

 

[Miltp920]

What / where exactly is the ring and pinion?

From what I have read all diffs, GM, Ford, and Dodge diff can carry much more payload than what the truck and chassis can handle. The radial load is not a concern IMHO. But the ring and pinion is.

 

[jnbhobe]

The ring and pinion are your axle gearing

 

[Miltp920]

Thanks for the info

 

[porthole]

The ring and pinion are your axle gearing

And not your typical do it yourself type job.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Yup, 19.5 inch wheels.

A good set of 19.5 Ricksons and medium duty tires eliminate the need for dual wheels and you won't be buying tires for a while either.

 

[Jim.Allison]

A amature mechanic can install a differential. But an amature should not attempt to completely overhaul one. Wheel bearings? yes. Buy and install new ring and pinion? No.

The best thing to do if you are interested in solving your problem is find a good donor off a wrecked truck. If you can't do that then perhaps there is a mechanic in your town that wants to earn a little on the side who will rebuild it for you.

The diff is the solution to your problem, now getting the diff into your truck for a price you can live with is the problem. Explore a little see what you can come up with, BTW, Salvage yards can be a lot of fun. You might find something you can't live without. Good Luck

 

[porthole]

The crop scale, was it a single platform scale?

CAT scales are mostly 3 platforms so you can get your steer axle, drive axle and trailer axles weight as well as a combined weight. If you have a smart phone, the CAT app makes it easy to find one.

I dont know know how accurate they are, but they are certified and guarantee their readings.

Using a 3 platform scale also let's you know your steer axle weight. You wouldn't want your front axle to be unloaded to the point of being hazardous to drive.

It really sounds like now that you have weighed your rig you are not comfortable with that knowledge.

There is only one why to put yourself back in the comfort zone. Oversized high pressure, hard riding tires, bigger springs, bigger brakes, changing driveline components will still not solve your problem.

With the GM truck line there have been significant advances from the 2003 to 2005 model year, again in the 05-06,06-07 and 08 and above.

Just just my opinion, i would save your money and put it towards the truck that fits your needs.

There are more then just 1 or 2 members on the forum that have been exactly where you are today and where for instance, I am today. For me it was a 2006 GMC 2500, with lots of upgrades, to a 3500 DRW.

I have the ability, tools and knowledge to replace ring and pinions. But, I'm not doing that in my driveway and I'm certainly not going to do it on both the rear AND FRONT axle. Let's not forget, with four wheel drive you have two drive trains combined.

It was not a CAT scale, but a certified scale at a crop production services. Weighing grains and stuff trucked in and out. I got a weight slip, it was easy in and easy out. So it was up to me to know to do each axle on the truck. I did not know I needed that so I got total truck and total combined truck and camper. Reweigh for a buck, good deal. Do they all do that?

 

[Miltp920]

Yes, single platform scale. I drove the truck on and stopped, then both on and stopped, then truck off but camper still on and stopped. Wrote down the numbers, collected my weight slip. $10. Went back different day, full of fuel weighed just truck. The only thing I do not know is individual axle weights on my truck while towing. I know I need to upgrade, and you are right, I am not comfortable with my new knowledge. However, I am trying to figure out if there is a margin analysis that I can do...like how many would upgrade IF just 1000 lbs over. 1500 lbs over, 2000lbs over. How much is too much over, IF you are accepting that you are over, but waiting to upgrade while saving for the new truck. I have read MANY posts where TV is few hundred lbs over, and driver is not worried. I also heard IF you tow over weight in florida, the police can weigh you on the side of the road and you will not move your rig if over. If I were in danger of breaking my truck, then my decision would be easier, but it seems I am within margin to not break the truck. I am trying to decide how long I can " buy" before upgrading. I have invested $22,500 into this truck and it pulls my cyclone like a dream. I wish I had gotten this informed before I bought the toyhauler. My previous 5er was within the limits. I thought I had done my research. I knew or thought if I stayed at or below 15,500, I was good. Until I got it weighed. I almost wish I had never got it weighed, then I would be like 90 % of those towing with a Diesel.. "they will tow just about anything"...lol. I replaced my blowmax tires because I really believe I did not have enough margin. But the truck is under rated by GM in my amateur opinion.

 

[Jim.Allison]

http://www.dieselpickups.com/diesel-pickup-trucks-for-sale.html

 

[DW_Gray]

A little late in response but thought I'd add my 2 cents...

1300 pounds over GCWR? I'd not bother one worry about it. As long as you are well under the truck's GVWR and GAWR with such a small overage on GCWR, drive on and enjoy your trips.

I'm surprised that FifthWheelSt.com was not mentioned to help you with knowing how to weigh at the scales. There is a good worksheet there that you can print out for use at single axle scales.

I tried to lose some RV weight once. But I discovered Lucy was stashing rocks. It is what it is.

 

[Jim.Allison]

On Pin Weight. I ordered the BC3650 RL. I know I need to weigh it, but right now I messing with some general weight calculations. What I need to know is if the factory pin weight includes a generator. It seems that the lit advertising the rig with a pin weight based on options. I ordered with gen prep and installed a 5500 LP myself. Im wondering what effect it has on my fiver in relation to the specs outlined on the heartland website?

Has anyone weighed a 3650RL that might know?