Towing and shocks...

[alexb2000]

My 2016 F250 has 35K miles.

I noticed when towing through the mountains a couple of weeks ago that on corners, especially off-camber corners, the truck would lean to the side and kind of stay there. That feeling when pulling a tall 5er is very un-nerving and makes you kind of pucker. I thought about this coming back from Wyoming and finally decided to replace the FX4 Rancho branded shocks with my old standby Bilstein 5100's that I have put on every truck I've owned for years. I went into this thinking that it is likely I was just wasting $300 taking off shocks that are basically new. So yesterday I took off the 35K factory Ranchos, I could compress them very easily with one hand and they took a couple of minutes to rebound even with no load. I see plenty of trucks with 200K that have never had shocks put on and so it was quite a surprise how far gone they were with that low mileage.

Anyway, towing really does find every weakness in your setup and I was reminded the importance of not ignoring the subtle indicators of a problem even when your mind says, "couldn't be".

Night and day difference that even my wife noticed as a passenger, so I guess it really was time to replace them.

 

[pjones1969]

I'm glad you posted this, I have Timbrens and the factory Ranchos now and have 22000 on my 16 F350 DRW, I am thinking about putting air bags on it so I can level it when hooked up, but just yesterday I read another post (can't remember if it was on here or not) that got me thinking about the possibility of getting the lean you mentioned after the Timbrens are removed, since they now engage with the axle.

I really want to level the load when hooked up but I don't want to create another issue, do you think air bags and the bilstein shocks would be a good combination?

I wouldn't have the Timbrens on this truck now if I had not of pulled them off of my 2012 F250 before I traded it, they worked with my last 5er which was about 6500# lighter.

Here is the setup hooked up, it's not terrible but I would like to level out the truck

 

[alexb2000]

I'm glad you posted this, I have Timbrens and the factory Ranchos now and have 22000 on my 16 F350 DRW, I am thinking about putting air bags on it so I can level it when hooked up, but just yesterday I read another post (can't remember if it was on here or not) that got me thinking about the possibility of getting the lean you mentioned after the Timbrens are removed, since they now engage with the axle.

I really want to level the load when hooked up but I don't want to create another issue, do you think air bags and the bilstein shocks would be a good combination?

I wouldn't have the Timbrens on this truck now if I had not of pulled them off of my 2012 F250 before I traded it, they worked with my last 5er which was about 6500# lighter.

Here is the setup hooked up, it's not terrible but I would like to level out the truck

I have air bags on my truck because I can't stand not towing level. IMO the Bilsteins are better suited for this than factory because at least with the 5100's for our Fords, the shock is rated at +0 to +2" of lift meaning they have extra throw which seems like the perfect setup for airbags IMO.

Do some research on the 5100's, awesome shock and pretty reasonable on Amazon or if you shop around.

 

[pjones1969]

I have air bags on my truck because I can't stand not towing level. IMO the Bilsteins are better suited for this than factory because at least with the 5100's for our Fords, the shock is rated at +0 to +2" of lift meaning they have extra throw which seems like the perfect setup for airbags IMO.

Do some research on the 5100's, awesome shock and pretty reasonable on Amazon or if you shop around.

Thanks, I've had the bags and the Bilstein f/r shocks in my Amazon cart for a few weeks now

What bags you have, I was leaning towards the AirLift 5000 Ultimates with the jounce bumper so I can run 0 psi when unloaded


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[alexb2000]

Thanks, I've had the bags and the Bilstein f/r shocks in my Amazon cart for a few weeks now

What bags you have, I was leaning towards the AirLift 5000 Ultimates with the jounce bumper so I can run 0 psi when unloaded


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I have Firestone bags with the Airlift compressor and wireless controller. Interestingly the Airlift controller won't allow me to run less than 5 psi, but I would've liked to run 0 when empty like you're planning if I had the right bags.

BTW- I LOVE is the Airlift wireless controller. You can step out of the truck and just add air until it sits level visually.

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/air-l...mnVqpzG3_YpWxFwbV2Mu-Iu0lEWm47KsaAnG_EALw_wcB

 

[justafordguy]

I have Airlift 5000 + bags and Bilstein shocks and don't notice any lean in corners. I don't think the shocks have anything to do with stopping lean but sway bars and airbags (if installed with separate fill ports) do for sure.

 

[alexb2000]

I have Airlift 5000 + bags and Bilstein shocks and don't notice any lean in corners. I don't think the shocks have anything to do with stopping lean but sway bars and airbags (if installed with separate fill ports) do for sure.

So you have Bilsteins and airbags and you don't notice any lean? OK, good deal, that's why I added Bilsteins and the point of the post.

Here is a KYB list of symptoms of worn shocks:

https://www.kyb.com/knowledge-center/shocks-101/what-worn-shocks-do/

 

[pjones1969]

This is the direction I will be going, thanks guys

 

[dave10a]

I'm still running with factory originals and after 90,000 miles I have not noticed any difference in handling of the truck while towing or not. Maybe its me. The truck corners, stops and accelerates seemingly the same.

 

[alexb2000]

I'm still running with factory originals and after 90,000 miles I have not noticed any difference in handling of the truck while towing or not. Maybe its me. The truck corners, stops and accelerates seemingly the same.

Shocks are really hard to diagnose because it happens so subtly, I was really surprised. It's one easy to get to bolt to pull one part way out and see for yourself if it is still good. Also, you might check for any slight cupping on the outside edges of your front tires.

 

[RedmondChuck]

Put new shocks on and you'll notice instantly

 

[kf5qby]

Shocks do not control body roll, they control bounce and rebound. Body roll is controlled by the sway bars and springs on the front and rear axles.

While I am not saying your shocks are not worn out, that would not cause the symptoms you described. You may want to check the sway bar bushings and mounting points to see if they are loose.

 

[Lou_and_Bette]

OK, you guys have got me really thinking about this issue with the truck shocks. The first difference I noticed on this trip was there seemed to be more "bouncing" of the trailer because things that had never moved around in the rig were now moving. Thought it was due to the roads here in the Northwest. Second thing I noticed was "more" tire wear than I had seen before. Again, issue assigned to what seems to be more roadway cupping with the large log trucks we have seen on the roads. Now I suspect that what is different might be my OEM shocks probably need to be changed. Approaching 70k on the truck and, at least 50% of those miles is towing.

 

[alexb2000]

Shocks do not control body roll, they control bounce and rebound. Body roll is controlled by the sway bars and springs on the front and rear axles.

While I am not saying your shocks are not worn out, that would not cause the symptoms you described. You may want to check the sway bar bushings and mounting points to see if they are loose.

Item 3 and 8 from the KYB link I posted earlier

https://www.kyb.com/knowledge-center/shocks-101/what-worn-shocks-do/

Monroe

"dive, squat, roll, or sway"

http://www.monroe.com/en-US/shocks-101/symptoms-of-wear/

 

[justafordguy]

Shocks do not control body roll, they control bounce and rebound. Body roll is controlled by the sway bars and springs on the front and rear axles.

While I am not saying your shocks are not worn out, that would not cause the symptoms you described. You may want to check the sway bar bushings and mounting points to see if they are loose.

I agree 100%.

 

[kf5qby]

Item 3 and 8 from the KYB link I posted earlier

https://www.kyb.com/knowledge-center/shocks-101/what-worn-shocks-do/

Monroe

"dive, squat, roll, or sway"

http://www.monroe.com/en-US/shocks-101/symptoms-of-wear/

But your original post said it leaned over and stayed there. Shocks are designed to control momentary impulses. Not long term events.

The sway bars on the axles are what control the long term body roll events. They also provide the force to level the vehicle back out.

Shocks do not provide a significant amount of upward force. Yes they feel strong when you try to use your hands to compress them but when you are talking thousands of pounds of force they are insignificant. They reply on the internal valves and forcing fluid through small openings to resist the momentary impulses. Gas charged shocks use the compressible nature of the gas to provide a space for the fluid as the piston is forced into the shock body. It is this pressurized gas that forces the piston back out but there is not enough force even in a new shock to counteract a uneven loading event that results in the truck having a persistent lean.

 

[alexb2000]

But your original post said it leaned over and stayed there. Shocks are designed to control momentary impulses. Not long term events.

The sway bars on the axles are what control the long term body roll events. They also provide the force to level the vehicle back out.

Shocks do not provide a significant amount of upward force. Yes they feel strong when you try to use your hands to compress them but when you are talking thousands of pounds of force they are insignificant. They reply on the internal valves and forcing fluid through small openings to resist the momentary impulses. Gas charged shocks use the compressible nature of the gas to provide a space for the fluid as the piston is forced into the shock body. It is this pressurized gas that forces the piston back out but there is not enough force even in a new shock to counteract a uneven loading event that results in the truck having a persistent lean.

Older trucks had much shorter, usually leaf springs, that were stiff enough to keep the whole load from moving a fraction of an inch. I had an old Dodge dually that would knock your teeth out going over a cigarette filter. Shocks on that must have been a cruel joke by the factory because the suspension never moved no matter what I put in the bed. Now we have these long rear leafs and progressive coils so that an HD truck rides like a 1/2 ton for the first couple of inches of travel. When we tow a 5er and go around an off camber corner the weight shifts to the outside and stays there through the corner (that's what I was referring to). That shifting of weight, the soft initial nature of progressive springs, and crap shocks makes the shift seem abrupt and uncomfortable because the lack of dampening makes it feel out of control.

 

[RedmondChuck]

Older trucks had much shorter, usually leaf springs, that were stiff enough to keep the whole load from moving a fraction of an inch. I had an old Dodge dually that would knock your teeth out going over a cigarette filter. Shocks on that must have been a cruel joke by the factory because the suspension never moved no matter what I put in the bed. Now we have these long rear leafs and progressive coils so that an HD truck rides like a 1/2 ton for the first couple of inches of travel. When we tow a 5er and go around an off camber corner the weight shifts to the outside and stays there through the corner (that's what I was referring to). That shifting of weight, the soft initial nature of progressive springs, and crap shocks makes the shift seem abrupt and uncomfortable because the lack of dampening makes it feel out of control.

Did you you say if you have air bags?

 

[kf5qby]

Older trucks had much shorter, usually leaf springs, that were stiff enough to keep the whole load from moving a fraction of an inch. I had an old Dodge dually that would knock your teeth out going over a cigarette filter. Shocks on that must have been a cruel joke by the factory because the suspension never moved no matter what I put in the bed. Now we have these long rear leafs and progressive coils so that an HD truck rides like a 1/2 ton for the first couple of inches of travel. When we tow a 5er and go around an off camber corner the weight shifts to the outside and stays there through the corner (that's what I was referring to). That shifting of weight, the soft initial nature of progressive springs, and crap shocks makes the shift seem abrupt and uncomfortable because the lack of dampening makes it feel out of control.

New shocks will soften the transition over worn shocks but will not stop the lean. A stiffer rear anti-sway bar would help with the lean but may adversely impact the ride quality when empty. Unfortunately unlike the auto racing world I doubt there is a large aftermarket for HD Truck anti-sway bars. I have never looked for them.

 

[alexb2000]

Did you you say if you have air bags?

Firestone cab controlled

- - - Updated - - -

New shocks will soften the transition over worn shocks but will not stop the lean. A stiffer rear anti-sway bar would help with the lean but may adversely impact the ride quality when empty. Unfortunately unlike the auto racing world I doubt there is a large aftermarket for HD Truck anti-sway bars. I have never looked for them.

Leaning is ok, when that weight shifts abruptly (undampened) it is very uncomfortable and possibly dangerous.

Guys, I feel like I'm writing a book, the truck is night and day better. If you don't think shocks would help in that towing situation, OK suit yourself. I'm just relating my experience feel free to disregard.