Towmax Blowout with damage and other 300c stuff

[mattpopp]

Lndeatr,
I believe in your first post you were probably talking about me. I have a 300c as well and within the first 1000miles I lost a Blowmax. Pretty much the same damage as your trailer took.

HT covered all of the damages on my trailer. They also found that the front axle was off by 3/8" or 1/2". They had to cut a hanger off and relocate it. That was my saving grace as the tire blowing was blamed on "scrubbing". Which we all know it was caused by crappy tire.

But I as well have the same issue with the front landing gear tripping out when retracting and the occasional Harley sounding water pump.

The website was completely wrong about the specs as well. It use to list the trailer as 37' and GVWR 14k. Its actually 40' and GVWR 16klbs. But in your case you bought your trailer thinking it was 37' due to their false advertisement as it would have fit in your storage. ************************ Just saying...


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[tireman9]

As I reviewed the posts in this thread I noted a lack of statements of actual tire loads as measured on individual tire scales. With it well established that over half of RVs that have been measured have been found to have one or more tires overloaded. I also not a lack of statements of the cold inflation set pressures. We also know that a good portion of RVs also have one or more tires underinflated. I also see some statements concerning the selection of tires by the RV mfg. It is a regulatory requirement (law) that the tires be selected that exceed the axle load rating (GAWR). A failure to do this can result in the MFG being forced to replace tires at no cost to the consumer by NHTSA.
While there is no requirement that there be what I would consider a realistic load margin of at least 15% it is against the regulations for the tires to be rates at less than the axle rating.

When a tire company claims the tires were overloaded it is hard to claim otherwise if you don't have documents to show your actual load. In my opinion not having a TPMS is like running you TV with the dash instruments disconnected.

I mentioned NHTSA. I have to wonder how many of you that have had a tire failure have provided the information needed by NHTSA and filed a complaint with the agency.

The solution to many of these tire problems is to select tires that provide at least 15% extra capacity over your actual tir loads. You also need to confirm that no individual tire is overloaded. It is not unusual to find axle loads are not 50/50 but many are closer to 45/55 or worse. Also side to side balance is seldom 50/50 with some as bad as 39/61%. The only way you will know this is if you get actual loads measured or calculate using worksheets as seen here or the worksheet here.
I also see the term Blowout used when sometimes I think it means tread separation. If you don't properly identify the problem how can you expect to properly solve it. It would be like replacing the TV battery when it doesn't start when the problem is a blown fuse in the ignition wiring.

 

[taken]

Well thought out post...however... To keep this real simple, I'll put it this way. Tons of posts of problems with Towmax tires. No posts from a person switching to LT tires or G rated tires having an issue afterward. This may not be scientific for you, but makes things plenty clear for me.

 

[JohnD]

The RV manufacturer's should at least be honest with us . . .

In another topic thread about the BlowMax tires many have said that if the RV manufacturer's gave us better quality tires that we would have to pay more for our RV's . . .

And that the RV buyers are shopping on price and would be unwilling to spend a little more at the time of purchase.

Well . . . I think that if the RV manufacturer's put better tires and other quality workmanship into their RV's that they would be able to charge less for their products since they would have to spend less money on warranty repairs and services.

I am in the retail business and I do understand this concept . . .

Heck . . . I had to take our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner in FIVE TIMES for warranty repair for a bunch of stupid stuff that should have been made right to begin with!

Who knows how much my dealership charged Heartland for these repairs ? ? ?

Probably five times what they would have had to charge me on the purchase price to make the trailer right in the first place . . .

And when I picked it up the last time, they made sure to remind me that I knew that my warranty was now expired!

By the by . . . I was at the tire shop last night looking at tires for my 2013 Heartland Trail Runner that has less than 3000 miles on it, but since it came equipped with the BlowMax Tow King's, I'm scared to death to tow it anywhere until I spend about $1000 on new tires that it seems many here thinks that I would have been unwilling to spend a few extra bucks at the time of purchase to get good tires on it in the first place.

The Heartland Trail Runner brochure bragged that they didn't skimp on stuff like tires . . . I believed them, and my dealership, who told me the same exact thing!

I think it is high time that one of the RV manufacturers (Heartland?) stand up and take the high road and do the right thing . . . and denounce these cheap Chinese tires and put good quality rubber on their trailers!

We shouldn't have to go to a truck stop and have our RV's weighed each and every time we put something in it to make sure we are compatible with the cheap tires that we were given to us with our purchase.

My BlowMax tires still look like brand new . . . but I just can't trust them anymore . . .

 

[kowAlski631]

We had 2 blow-outs on the road as well as 2 tread failures. By blow-out I mean a tire losing air pressure so violently that there was a sound akin to a large caliber gunshot. We check our tire pressure cold & monitor while underway with our TPMS. We DO NOT overload our trailer.

We did not report to NHTSA since (after having dealt with many government agencies in our careers) reports and/or contacts proved to be a direct correlation with trying to cure a migraine by beating your head with a hammer. For persons who have had success, good for you, but we chose to move on replacing the tires, repairing the damage, posting to warn others of what happened to us, and resuming enjoyment of our lives.

I believe I remember your prior posts where you stated you worked or had worked in some capacity for tire manufacturers. I would have to assume that persons not familiar with industry terms may use phrases you deem inaccurate. That may well be true, but do not doubt the sincerity or accuracy of what people report of the sudden dangerous situations the find themselves in, the damage done to their property, the added expense to their budgets when replacing tires with 3,000 or less miles of use, and the frustration they encounter with the tire distribution entity.

Oh, by the way, what tires do YOU run on your Coachman?

Martha


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

 

[caissiel]

When I replaced my failing ST GY tires I got 2 LTs for the price of one and they lasted over 7 years while 20% overloaded.
My original Chinese LTs on the BC are now over 6 years old and I have no plans of replacing them yet.
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

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[Grey Ghost]

I also blew two Towmax tires and dealt with the company distributor out of Canada, of course the blow out was my fault. Either overinflated, under-inflated or I hit some sort of obstacle. I got sick of dealing with Chinese made tires and distributors that don't stand behind their products. I took off all four Towmax tires and replaced them with Michelin's light truck tires M/S 2 and now feel much safer on the road. I HATE sitting on the side of the interstate as everyone else just buzzes bye, I love my Michelin tires. I also got a TST tire monitoring system which shows me tire air pressure and temp so IF I have a problem I might get a little notice and be able to pull over before I tear up my 5ver. Get rid of those Chinese made tires!!!

 

[wdk450]

It was with great sadness that I learned that Les Schwab tires does indeed now stock the Tow Max tires for the ST285-80R16 LR-G application. While I am very confident that Les Schwab stands solidly behind everything they sell, and would indeed warrant the tires (and hopefully the incidental damages), nobody wants to risk an accident and a lot of hassle from a blowout. I am going to write their corporate a letter, and maybe have the local shop ORDER another brand of tire if I need one.

 

[danemayer]

I learned that Les Schwab tires does indeed now stock the Tow Max tires for the ST285-80R16 LR-G application.

Hi Bill,

Did you mean LR-E?

 

[tireman9]

We had 2 blow-outs on the road as well as 2 tread failures. By blow-out I mean a tire losing air pressure so violently that there was a sound akin to a large caliber gunshot. We check our tire pressure cold & monitor while underway with our TPMS. We DO NOT overload our trailer.

We did not report to NHTSA since (after having dealt with many government agencies in our careers) reports and/or contacts proved to be a direct correlation with trying to cure a migraine by beating your head with a hammer. For persons who have had success, good for you, but we chose to move on replacing the tires, repairing the damage, posting to warn others of what happened to us, and resuming enjoyment of our lives.

I believe I remember your prior posts where you stated you worked or had worked in some capacity for tire manufacturers. I would have to assume that persons not familiar with industry terms may use phrases you deem inaccurate. That may well be true, but do not doubt the sincerity or accuracy of what people report of the sudden dangerous situations the find themselves in, the damage done to their property, the added expense to their budgets when replacing tires with 3,000 or less miles of use, and the frustration they encounter with the tire distribution entity.

Oh, by the way, what tires do YOU run on your Coachman?

Martha


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

Have to wonder if you have not heard about the 100,000 tire recall from Michelin a few months ago on TV size tires. There have been a few recalls and other actions on RV tires, wheels and valves. BUT I believe there should be more but when the user can't be bothered to spend the 15 min it takes to file a complaint then in my book they have abdicated much of the right to complain about poor quality tires on the road. Don't let your politics get in the way of taking proper action. I have met with and delivered training to the engineers at DOT. They are not pols but people with degrees in engineering.

If you read my blog you will see numerous posts on the real reasons tires fail.

I happen to run Firestone Trahsforce HT LT235/85R16 LR-E which is an up rate from the LR-D that were OE. I did the changeover at 200 miles. Tires look great at 6.5 years. Probably because I have about 20% reserve load and keep them covered with white covers (see my blog with temperature readings).

Before retiring in 2010 I worked 40 years as a tire design & quality engineer in Akron.

If you have problems with tires maybe you need to buy from a company that has many stores in every state in the US and a tire warranty that does not expire when you pull out of the garage.


Courious how you know you do not have any of your tires overloaded.

 

[tireman9]

Re: The RV manufacturer's should at least be honest with us . . .

snip

We shouldn't have to go to a truck stop and have our RV's weighed each and every time we put something in it to make sure we are compatible with the cheap tires that we were given to us with our purchase.
.

Never said you should weigh the RV every time you put something in it. BUT you do need to confirm your loads do not exceed either the GAWR or the individual tire max capacity. It is not unususal for multi axle trailers to be 45/55 axle to axle and even 40/60 side to side on a single axle. The facts are that as a group over half of trailers have one or more tire in overload. This is based on hard numbers accumulated by RVSEF who have accurate scales and weigh thousands of tires individually each year.

If you confirm your weight once and then know you have 300 or 500# reserve for each tire then unless you go and buy a bunch of bowling balls you should be OK. BUT just looking at the RV is no way to know what your weights are.

 

[wdk450]

Hi Bill,

Did you mean LR-E?

Dan:
I have 7000 lb axles, so I need tires that have a capacity of 3500 lbs, or greater. Here is a spec page on the Geostar tires: http://geostartrucktire.com/tires/steerhighway/geostar-g574?tab=specs

 

[tireman9]

Well thought out post...however... To keep this real simple, I'll put it this way. Tons of posts of problems with Towmax tires. No posts from a person switching to LT tires or G rated tires having an issue afterward. This may not be scientific for you, but makes things plenty clear for me.

Thanks but I don't think people should have to go out and swap tires and wheels on a new RV. You don't do that on any car you buy so what is wrong with the RV mfg? I say it is the owners that don't demand better quality for the money they spend. Too many people buy the bling but never look at the shoddy workmanship and sub-standard components.

What do you think would happen if you said you will buy that new RV but the dealer must provide a 3 year 100% hitch to bumper warranty? You can get better than that from a number of car companies. Most cars have 10/100,000 on engine and drive-train too. If the dealer won't offer such coverage for say 3-5% of purchase price then you know that they know their product is just shiny junk

 

[danemayer]

Dan:
I have 7000 lb axles, so I need tires that have a capacity of 3500 lbs, or greater. Here is a spec page on the Geostar tires: http://geostartrucktire.com/tires/steerhighway/geostar-g574?tab=specs

I was confused because you mentioned Les Schwab stocking the Tow Max tires for the ST285-80R16 LR-G application. I thought Tow Max was ST235-80R16 LR-E.

 

[kowAlski631]

Have to wonder if you have not heard about the 100,000 tire recall from Michelin a few months ago on TV size tires. There have been a few recalls and other actions on RV tires, wheels and valves. BUT I believe there should be more but when the user can't be bothered to spend the 15 min it takes to file a complaint then in my book they have abdicated much of the right to complain about poor quality tires on the road. Don't let your politics get in the way of taking proper action. I have met with and delivered training to the engineers at DOT. They are not pols but people with degrees in engineering.

If you read my blog you will see numerous posts on the real reasons tires fail.

I happen to run Firestone Trahsforce HT LT235/85R16 LR-E which is an up rate from the LR-D that were OE. I did the changeover at 200 miles. Tires look great at 6.5 years. Probably because I have about 20% reserve load and keep them covered with white covers (see my blog with temperature readings).

Before retiring in 2010 I worked 40 years as a tire design & quality engineer in Akron.

If you have problems with tires maybe you need to buy from a company that has many stores in every state in the US and a tire warranty that does not expire when you pull out of the garage.


Courious how you know you do not have any of your tires overloaded.

1. Takes more than 15 minutes to file reports to NHTSA or any other government agency. Oh & that is not based on political beliefs, but on real life experiences as well as interaction with multiple agencies & federal legislators on both sides of the aisles for many years.

2. As I worked with the automotive industry for over 20 years & read several newspapers daily I am cognizant of tire recalls which occur from time to time.

3. My husband is a physicist. He understands the theoretical point of view you have as well as your background in design & QC. However, no matter the perfection on paper of design nor how vigilant the QC, there are always flaws in the manufacturing process.

4. Our trailer is not overloaded. We know this as we weigh it on a routine basis since we are full-timers moving our 5th wheel at least once every 10 days.

5. As a consumer, reliance on any product be it tires, drugs or food, comes from products being approved for use & used in that manner.

Your passionate defense of the products you were involved with is admirable. However, you should really give credence to the intellect, experience, & concerns brought by posters on this & other sites as they report their encounters with a particular brand of tires.

I apologize for the length of this posting, however it is my firm & continuing belief that the tires are at fault - not the consumers.

Martha


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

 

[wdk450]

I was confused because you mentioned Les Schwab stocking the Tow Max tires for the ST285-80R16 LR-G application. I thought Tow Max was ST235-80R16 LR-E.

That might be one of the big factors for the Tow Max's reported poor performance on this size/application. I looked up the TowMax specs and got a 10 ply rating (vs 14 ply for the Geostar and Goodyear in this size) and a lower load rating (3640@80 psi. vs 3750@110 psi.) than the Geostars!!!! I can't see myself using a 10 ply, 80 PSI ST tire on a 7K axle. With the Geostars I have 250 lbs load reserve capacity on each tire above the 3500 lbs. needed by the axle. That's 1000 lbs. reserve on a 2 axle. 7K axle setup like mine.

Tow Max ST Tire Specs: http://www.towmaxtires.com/tires/Landing.aspx?application=towmax-product-line

Reading through the Tow Max website above provided some interesting reading. It seems the warranty changed in August 2012. Full replacement warranty with all charges (R&R, balancing) covered is for only the first 2/32 inch of tread life. Subsequent to that if you get a pro-rated warranty replacement, and you pay all the labor & incidental charges. The "About Us" section makes some big-time quality claims, and has a list of their 1200 factory-owned tire chain stores in the bottom fine print (none of those stores are out here in California that I know of, but franchisee stores Big O Tires are). They list a "Free Roadside Assistance" plan that maxes out at $60 of charges - you pay anything beyond that.

I would recommend anyone buying any replacement tires for their trailer buy the "Road Hazard Insurance" just to eliminate any possible hassle on this point.

 

[scottyb]

I apologize for the length of this posting, however it is my firm & continuing belief that the tires are at fault - not the consumers.

I tend to agree with you, especially the people on this site. The consequences of not monitoring your pressure are too high a price to pay. Yet they continue to blowout. There have been a couple reports of them blowing or bubbling while on the spare tire rack. I'm just guessing here, but I think the majority of people (not everyone) on this site are running tires other than Towmax. They either optioned up, replaced them after reading about them, or had the misfortune to find out 1st hand what the consequences can be. Has anyone posted, or read a post where a top name brand tire has blown out, other than the one thread about a couple Goodyear G's. I have over 11K on my XPS Ribs and seldom even have to add air to them. I will be taking them for their 2nd rotation before my next trip. I know that any tire can blow out and if anything ever happens, I will certainly report it on here.

 

[dbbls59]

I was lucky and caught my Blow Max before they blew. One had a belt separation which I noticed. This caused me to check the other three, two of them had cord separation. I replaced them with Sailun G rated LT tires. I drive with confidence now.