Transfer Switch Failure

[danemayer]

It's been an interesting afternoon. Our transfer switch failed completely. No power getting through it from pedestal or generator. The relay makes a terrible noise when it tries to switch to generator. Took the basement walls down, opened the box and it's smoked.

It's a bit challenging to say the least. We're in Breckenridge, CO and I've got power from the 30amp connection on the pedestal distributed to a number of things including a battery charger to keep the battery charged. Really hoping it's got enough output to keep the two batteries charged with heavy use of the furnace, along with LP frig and LP water heater.

The tank heaters are 110V, so they're off. I've opened the gray tanks and ran the pump to draw down the fresh tank to maybe 10 gallons in case the tank gets cold enough to freeze. The black tank has some heat under it that should protect it. Temps are only supposed to go down to 22F tonight and 12F Monday night.

I've ordered a new transfer switch from Amazon but it's scheduled to ship Monday and arrive Tuesday. If the roads are passable, I may have to see if someone in Denver has one in stock that we could pick up Monday.

Fortunately we changed the living room puck lights to LEDs last summer so we can have some light without putting too much load on the batteries.

Power cord coming through the window is powering computers, TV, and Directv box, so it's not completely primitive. But no microwave and I don't know if the power budget will allow for the coffemaker in the morning.

Oh well - at least it failed in mid-afternoon so I was able to figure out what happened and put workarounds in place.

 

[scottyb]

Dan, can you get some large wire nuts or terminal lugs and by-pass the ATS? You could even buy a 125A load center and 50A breaker for $25-30 at HD. Anything to get you by until you can acquire a new ATS.

 

[Sumo]

I think I would have left the fresh water holding tank full, less likely to freeze. But, you are in a sticky wicket.

 

[danemayer]

I think I would have left the fresh water holding tank full, less likely to freeze. But, you are in a sticky wicket.

It was pretty full - probably close 90+ gallons. I wondered if leaving it pretty full would help keep it from freezing. But on the other hand, if it did freeze, there wouldn't be any room for expansion. So with less water it may freeze sooner, but I'm hoping there won't be any damage. Also, I do have extended ducting in the underbelly, so with the mild temps, it may stay above freezing.

 

[Terry H]

Dan,

I had my freshwater tank 2/3 full when it got down to 16 degrees Monday night in Dallas. I did not have the tank heaters on and none of the water system froze.
So I think you will be safe for tonight and maybe tomorrow night.

 

[TravelTiger]

I agree, I don't think the tank will be a problem, it's the fresh tank to pump (where the low point drain is) that is more susceptible to freezing.


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[kakampers]

Dan...How you guys doing this morning? Hope you can find a ATS today....been worried about you and Ann.

 

[danemayer]

Dan...How you guys doing this morning? Hope you can find a ATS today....been worried about you and Ann.

Made it through the night. The battery charger kept up with the furnace and hot water heater. Shut down the frig and moved all the food to another refrigerator.

I'll be calling RV dealers in Denver soon and will pick up a transfer switch to install today if possible. If not, I'll see if I can find an adapter for the power converter (dedicated 20amp plug) so I can use that instead of the battery charger. May try to find/make a 50/30/20 adapter to get additional power off the 50 amp receptacle so we can run the microwave or coffeemaker or ceramic disc heater (really miss the fireplace). I'm pulling too many amps off the 30 amp receptacle to run those right now. The adapters I have are to plug 50 into 30 into 20. I need the reverse for this situation.

We're ok, just slightly less comfortable than what we're used to.

 

[kakampers]

That's good news! Always something isn't it? Keeps life interesting I guess....hang in there!! This is why I say if you RV you REALLY need to know how work on many things yourself.

 

[boatto5er]

Could you run an extension cord from the converter to the 20amp receptacle on the pedestal for your 12volt needs, and then run the coffee pot, etc off the 30 amp plug?

 

[porthole]

In the time you spent waiting already, you could have taken the switch apart and used heavy butt connectors to make a splice and have power from the pedestal.
Then wait till spring time or at least 40 degrees to make the repair. And for a bit more cash you could wire the genny into a box with a 50 amp receptacle, that way you will still have the genny available if needed.

I actually have the parts to that with my genny, but once I found out I couldn't get 240 out of I held off. I was hoping to be able to use the Cyclone genny for the sticks and bricks house.

 

[danemayer]

Could you run an extension cord from the converter to the 20amp receptacle on the pedestal for your 12volt needs, and then run the coffee pot, etc off the 30 amp plug?

The converter has a dedicated 20amp plug with one blade rotated - won't fit regular outlets or extension cords. I made an adapter today and now the converter is running.

Also made up a Y to plug into the 50 amp receptacle, giving me 2 30amp receptacles in addition to the 30 amp receptacle on the pedestal. Now have enough power to make coffee or run a ceramic disc heater on one cord. Another is running electronics. Third is running the power converter and a bit more.

 

[danemayer]

In the time you spent waiting already, you could have taken the switch apart and used heavy butt connectors to make a splice and have power from the pedestal.
Then wait till spring time or at least 40 degrees to make the repair. And for a bit more cash you could wire the genny into a box with a 50 amp receptacle, that way you will still have the genny available if needed.

I actually have the parts to that with my genny, but once I found out I couldn't get 240 out of I held off. I was hoping to be able to use the Cyclone genny for the sticks and bricks house.

Duane,

You're right, it would have been faster to have spliced around the transfer switch. But sometimes in the winter storms up here, power goes out and the generator comes in handy. I didn't want to disable it. And I'm not sure our power cord would reach far enough to plug into a generator receptacle unless I put it on the outside wall near the water heater.

 

[danemayer]

Called Windish RV and Camping World west side of Denver this morning. Neither one had a transfer switch in stock. Just as well. I-70 was a mess all day.

 

[wqmiller]

Hello Dan,

Been following you misfortune with great interest as it may be me one day with similar condition(s). Glad you guys are surviving though as you would like. I am going to open and inspect our ATS when I get back to the RV just to see if all connections are tight and the contacts look OK. Just a little preventive maintain MIGHT just prevent a similar occurrence with me. Of course, you likely don't know the nature of the failure yet but if you get an idea after replacement, please pass it on as I know you will. I am curious to know what model ATS do you have installed? I have an 2013 LM San Antonio I just verified I have the PD5200 Series. This unit does NOT have any protection as far as over/under voltage, polarity and etc. Been thinking about moving to another version to get some added protection.

Anyway, good luck with the replacement.....keep the coffee pot working. Thanks for all your comments and inputs to this forum.

Regards,


Quinton Miller

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[danemayer]

Hi Quinton,

It's a PD-52. Just a switch - no surge protection. I have a separate EMS at the pedestal.

Inspection sounds like a good idea. Also, there have been some suggestions recently about flipping the interior 50 amp breakers before starting or stopping the generator so there's no arcing from transferring under load.

 

[Silverado23]

Have you considered what caused your ATS to fail? Burned up relays sound like a low or even an over voltage situation. The relays in this unit may require power from the generator to be above 105 VAC or below 130 VAC on the gen 1 to neutral side to switch. It may also be possible to replace just the relays and then you would have a spare ATS. The relays are probably around $50 from the manufacturer (progressive dynamics?) The control board may be replaceable, too. If your power protection unit is a portable model you could use it to verify the output voltages of your generator on startup.

 

[HornedToad]

danemayer,

Could you post a photo of your bad switch? I want to service my switch as outline below and would like to see what a bad/pitted? switch looks like. THX, Mike

post #20 by wdk450 > In thread Forum>HEARTLAND RVs GENERAL AREA>Electrical - For all Heartland brands>Generators>bad transfer switch
"PROBLEM DUE TO TRANSFER SWITCH CONTACT PITTING…"
"if you use the generator regularly, you may want to service the transfer switch about once a year; removing all trailer power sources, opening the transfer relay box, and using a thin file and contact cleaner/improver spray on all 6 sets of contacts."

 

[wdk450]

If you want to know most anything this day and age, you just do a websearch. Here is a result from a Google Images search for "Pitted Contactor" (Contactor is a fancy term for a high current relay). This isn't exactly the relay used in our transfer switches, but the contacts are pretty similar. Note the discolored, pitted contacts and the good, shiny contacts. The pitting and resultant higher contact resistance further results in heat with high currents passed through the contacts, and finally results in the contact discoloration seen here:



On a related note, last night I composed a reply for this thread talking about using a MANUAL transfer switch instead of an automatic one. I thought about it a bit and decided to cancel that post, before I ever posted it. This morning on my Drudge report sponsored ads, there is a Granger ad for a manual electrical switch! I guess Big Brother is watching more and more!

 

[TedS]

Dan, did you get a switch? Wish I had seen your post sooner. I have a transfer switch I removed from my Big Horn. I am down here near Durango, CO. A long drive, though. About 5 hours from you. Maybe we could have worked something out. Sorry.